I am thinking about going to a cut on impact broadhead design for this fall's hunt. Right now I shoot Muzzy 100g. 3 blades, and was contemplating on going with a Steelforce or Magnus. Any thoughts on these types of broadheads?

MG

Broadhead opinions are like assholes... Everybody has one But in all seriousness, the Steelforce and Magnus heads are good. I've contemplated using them also, but I've strayed away due to the possibility of bending the blade over on a heavy bone. I've poured through damn near every broadhead that I can find, and the one I always come back to is the Razorcap. I'm a mechanical engineer, so I know a bit about materials and design, and the Razorcap is truly nearing the pinnacle of broadhead design. The G5 Montec is also a good cut-on-contact design, but the powdered sintered metal molding design gives me an uneasy feeling, especially at temperatures lower than 20 degrees.

The Razorcaps look like a well made broadhead for sure. Would definitely be good for compound bows. (I shoot recurve) so the cutouts in the blades will whistle like crazy. I've been having a hard time finding solid broadheads. I've settled on the Del-Ma broadheads. (figure I'll give them a try).

mike

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ManCannon: I've contemplated using them also, but I've strayed away due to the possibility of bending the blade over on a heavy bone.



This is the reason I stopped using cut on contact broadheads.I spined a small buck around 20 yrs ago.He ran off.When I found the arrow the point was bent backwards.I now use Muzzys.I spined a doe about 5 yrs ago.She went right down.I dont think I will ever change the brand of broadheads I use.I have shot about 15 deer with them and am impressed with their performance and durability.


Have you had problems with Muzzys?

I've shot also every 3 to 1 cut on impact design broadhead in current production in the last 15 years(and a few old ones).

The two fold over factors are the ferral metal and hitting heavy bone.

Aluminim is just not a good choice as a ferral. Steel forces 210gr. head has a stainless steel ferral and have been sucessfully used on Africa game with hides 3x thicker than our N.American game WITHOUT incident.

I shoot te 140 glue ones with adaptor incerts(185 gr. total wt.) The huge aluminum ferral on this head is twice as lagre as the 10-0 gr. steel force head. I've only folded one that pased through and hit a large rock.

As to "heavy bone".....Guys cut on impact 2 blade heads are made to slip between ribs not blow through sholder blades & leg bones. You can not expect to not have failure with these heads if you go up against heavy bone.

No problem with the Muzzy's. I have only killed one deer with those heads, and it went clean through. I am planning on a moose hunt this fall, and was thinking about a different set up. I'm going to 5000 Blackhawk Vapor arrows instead of 4000, and was thinking about trying a different broadhead. I have a friend who has slayed hogs left and right using a cut on impact design, and he has been very happy with the results. I thought for this moose I would give something else a try.

MG

I like the two-blade Steelforce broadheads. I shoot the 100 grain ones even though I like heavy arrows because they have a narrower profile. I have never bent one, even when it hits dirt, trees or rocks after a passthrough.

The 4 blade Steelforce heads (main + bleeder)are even more bend-resistant, since the main blade is gusseted by the bleeder. The Titanium versions cost half again as much with no real metallurgical advantage, but the bleeder blade extends closer to the tip, reinforcing it better and giving a longer aspect ratio to the bleeder blade itself. I am carrying these after black bear this year.

For the ultimate heavy game arrow, the 190 grain cut-on-contact Grizzly Grande is the answer. Close to a 3:1 aspect ratio and tough carbon steel. The 5 degree cone that the ferrule glues into is formed from the blade material itself, making this the strongest possible design against bending. I have never bent a Grizzly, even when I have bent the 100 grain solid steel broadhead adapter! These bend when I hit the steel "bones" in the legs of my McKenzie 3D targets. The dense foam holds the arrow shaft straight while the tip hits the steel pipe "leg bones". The miracle is that it's never broken one of my Carbon Tech Safari arrows.

Is anybody interested in getting some custom "glue-on-glue-in" 5 degree broadhead adapters made from 6065 T-6 alloy? This aluminum alloy is stronger than many steels and much lighter. I have been unsuccessful in getting them made.

quote:

No problem with the Muzzy's. I have only killed one deer with those heads, and it went clean through.

I've killed several whitetails with Muzzys but switched to 125 gr 3 blade after bending a 100 gr 3 blade on a spine hit.

Can anyone give me some thoughts or experiences on Tite-Point arrowheads? TIA

Don do you ever see those two blade Steel Force plane? I have heard that some two blade broadheads will plane a little, compared to three or four blade models. I was thinking about getting the model with the bleeder blades.

MG

In the right wind any of the fixed BHs will plane. The 100 gr Steelforce, whether 2 or bleeder is more plane-resistant than most. It is narrow at the back and slotted. I use the bleeder blade version on deer and bear.

What I've found is that for any fixed BH to fly right the bow must be in perfect tune. The arrow must leave the bow perfectly straight and fly that way. In short, it must fly like an arrow!

Many, many times hunter's bows are not tuned well. The result is that field tips fly OK, but they complain that BHs plane. It is abslutely true that those blades act like vanes up front, and if the arrow leaves the bow even a liitle sideways the fletches will have a tougher time bringing it back in line.

For this reason I like to get rests that have graduated marks on them, if not true vernier adjustments.

Download the tuning guide from this page, and choose how you are going to tune. I like paper tuning myself, and use butcher paper on a homemade stand with a roller bar for the roll of paper to make it easy and quick.

Good luck!

I agree with Don, when broadheads plane its because the arrows are poorly tuned or the heads are not on straight. If guys are having two blade cut on contact heads bend, its because they are trying to use ones that are to light. I have shot 160 and 190 Grizzly's and 160 Magnus heads flat out into rocks with bows in the 80# range and heavy arrows and done no damage, other than to blunt the very tip. I HAVE bent or broken lots of modular heads on even small bones.

Excuse the ignorance but what is a bleeder blade and what does it mean when a broadhead planes?

A "bleeder blade" is a secondary blade across a 2 blade broadhead. It gives two more cutting surfaces. The term "bleeder" is an old one - Fred Bear designed heavy 2 blade BHs with very light cross blades that broke off easily on bone, etc. This, IMHO, was a great design choice.

I think the perfect BH for thick-skinned animals is a two-blade BH with a bleeder blade diameter of only twice the shaft diameter. I think the bleeder should be like Fred's - no thicker than an old-fashioned "safety razor" blade that will shed off on anything heavier than Cape Buffalo hide.

A broadhead from the side looks like a wing. That big flat surface will try to steer the arrow if a relative wind hits it from the side. This happens on windy days to the best-tuned setup, but happens every shot if the arrow has any sideways motion as it leaves the bow. The steering forces up front fight the ones from the fletches and you get corkscrew flight.

So a fixed BH can act like an airplane's tailfins, only at the front of the arrow. Hence "planing".

I keep my arrow speeds down to 280 fps and below (preferably at 240-260 fps) by using heavier arrows. This gives easier tuning, better flight, less planing on windy days, and better penetration.

By staying always in the same velocity range the trajectory is the same on all my setups, and my "eye" is good for all of them.

Got it... Thanks.

Word from my archery shop is that the lazer welded RaZorcap Broadheads are definitely the pick of the bunch if your serious about integrity and performance on big game.
He aint just a paper puncher either, he has taken Buff and other large creature,on numerous occasion.And has been hunting well over 20yrs with bows.
When I asked him, he said straightup:"Razorcaps, dont waste your time/money on anything else."

I've found the majority of arrow planing is from the insert improperly glued in the shaft. Several folks seem to think their bow is not in tune if arrows plane but, that's not so. The insert must be perfectly straight for the head to fly true. Easy to fix on aluminum shafts but alittle difficult on carbons.

Some cheap heads fly terrible regardless of how tuned the arrow/bow is.

Good Luck

Reloader

Woodjack, it sounds like you're getting some good information I haven't used the Razorcap yet, but this year will be the first. I just don't see how you can top that design...

Hey Don, I downloaded the tuning stuff. Have you noticed it is the same as my method except for the rest moving part? This is the first time I have seen this and they have caught up to me.

I won't move the rest because it can also move the field point impact and you can wind up chasing it. It is at least 18 years since I worked this out and tried to sell a book or article with no takers. Now I see it in print.

The Phanthom Muzzy head has given me excellent flight and penetration. The older Patriot heads are also great choices as are my old standby Zwickeys. I shoot 100 gr patriots/phanthoms and 125 gr Zwickeys.

The G5 Montecs fly better than any head I ever shot. I only have a couple "on game" experiences with them, so the jury is still out. But there ain't no problem with them not going where you aim them.

I shot the 100 gr. Steelforce one night at a buddy's house. Was using his chrono and he wanted my opinion on how the Steelforce flew. I screwed one on and hit the same hole 3 times at between 25 and 30 yards chrono'ing at 308 fps. No planing. I don't have any 1st hand hunting stories to relate about the Steelforce. But I would definitely recommend them just on flight qualities.

Strut10,

How about resharpening the G5's? Have you, and if so, how? Thx

I took 3 deer last year with 125 G5s and they do the trick. I sharpen mine by taking a piece of glass that I had cut from scrap at a local window store and putting high grit sandpaper on it, use the wet dry stuff, wet it down good and move the broadhead back and forth, holding it flat on the sandpaper, not the direction the blades are running, but perpendicular to them. Do this really lightly, you dont need much pressure, I do like 10 seconds on each edge, you sharpen one side of 2 blades each time. There are some videos on the net I think that better demonstrate it. I can get them to the point that they will shave hair off my arm, but they wont feel sharp like a razor because the edge angle is still much larger than that of most blades, trust me they are still sharp and the edge is much more durable than a thinner edge would be.

I forgot to mention that my montecs shoot very accurately also, I havent ever tried other broadheads though because last year was my first year bowhunting and they work for me so why change right?

So can anyone explain to me why the Steelforce seem to drift left? My field points and Muzzy's all are dead on, but the Steelforce go about 3 inches to the left at 25 yards. What gives?

MG

Madgoat,

Can you get the same size groups back at 50 yards or further with the G-5's as you get with field points? If not, wouldn't that indicate plaining?

I guess I don't know because I only practice to 40 and my max hunting limit is 30. I do know, that at 30 yards I can't shoot more than 1 broadhead at a time at the bullseye because the broadheads damage the arrows already in the target.