first do you shoot a compound and release?

I have bowkilled many deer, some beyond 60yds. The ones I've lost have all been under 25 yds and pieshots.

Deer is suddenly upon you and we get into this 'shoot it before it gets away' mode. We all do it, I am certainly guilty.

You're never really sure what went wrong, bad release, failure to pick a spot, picked wrong spot, didn't allow for angle, deflection, maybe shaking like a leaf in a hurricane.

Rushed or ho hum shots are the leading causes of game escaping, IMHO. Fortunately, I am of the belief the vast majority of bowshot animals not down within 150yds, live on to make for another story.

If you are determined enough and a good hunter with enough time, you can still take her in. She will continue to use the same places. I have a ten point on the wall that is the result of my 5th encounter with him.

Hunting with a partner, we have managed to hunt down and kill several previously wounded (not all by us) deer over the years.

I decline to go into all the strategies involved here as the lay of the land is the inducer, but it can be and is done.

From the sound of your story, I think you just went thru the motions of a good shot without looking at the detail like you would have had it been more difficult. We sometimes silently chant, 'pick a spot', when the better addage would be, 'pick the exact right spot'.

I bet the next one is a different story.

Look at a deer shoulder and how the whole thing articulates the next time you're skinning one. The deer was probably holding her near front leg slightly back - and you hit the shoulder. The triangular shoulder blade will completely cover the heart lung area in certain positions. An arrow is likely to fail to fully penetrate or glance off, especially if it hits that big ridge of bone.

You recovered the arrow, right?

On the bright side, this deer has an almost certain chance of recovering fully despite the deep wounds. Their immune systems are amazing.

To answer some questions:



Shooting a compound bow (Hoyt UltraTec), set at 60 lbs, carbon arrows with spine to match bow poundage, 100 gr 4 blade Muzzy broadheads. Yes, I use a release. I was in a treestand about 15' high.



I did recover the arrow. It was sticking in the ground at an angle where I would have expected it from a pass through shot through the chest. It did have blood and tallow on it length to length. I could easily have hit the shoulder blade. Because I was shooting from a fairly steep angle, the shoulder blade probably turned the arrow enough to prevent penetration to the lungs.

Sounds like you may have hit high, above the lungs and thru the far shoulder. Probably even hitting on the far side of the spine.
With luck the deer will make it!

Tony, this is the curse of light fast arrows. Lucky for the deer you had the arrow deflect. Had you been shooting from a lower position where the arrow would have hit the shoulder straight on, it would just have stuck there and not gone through the shoulder blade. Your setup will zip through the chest cavity but never will go through a shoulder. You just do not have the kinetic energy. It takes a heavy bow around 80# and the heaviest arrow (2419, 125 gr. head) to go through them darn things. Best bet is to never shoot for that spot. There is something about the blade that makes it act like a chinese finger puzzle. The flexibility of it plus the floating action absorbs energy very well. It is easier to cut the big leg bone in half.

bfrshooter, I disagree that I don't have the KE to shoot through a deers shoulder with this setup. I shot a big doe several years ago through her shoulder and the arrow penetrated all the way and broke her other shoulder. The shot was at 25 yards. My problem is the angle. Had she been out to 15-20 yards, the arrow would have gone right on through.

As far as shooting for that spot, I wasn't really, but hit about an inch forward of where I was aiming.

Bo-n-aro, no way you can go above lungs an below the spine -'taint enough room in there. It is possible to hit hide above the spine. My arrow hit midway up the animal. If it had gone through as I expected it would have, it would have gone through the boiler room. Only way I missed lungs would be if the arrow deflected off bone.

Tony, there are too many places on the shoulder that will stop an arrow from an 80# bow. There are very small areas that an arrow will go through but is it worth trying? I have shot through a shoulder, cut the spine in half and cut the ball joint in the opposite leg in half driving the arrow to the fletch. But I have also had an arrow stop dead in the shoulder, only penetrating to the insert. What I am telling you is to stay away from the shoulder because it is not a sure thing. That toothpick WILL stop in the wrong place. I develop 82# of energy and have had them stop dead.
Even worse is deflection with too light of an arrow. I hit a quartering shot on a big buck in Ohio with a crossbow. I hit the last rib and watched in amazement as the bolt deflected and whipped the deer across the shoulder with the side of the shaft. The arrow was hanging full length from his chest with the broadhead just under the skin. After over 200 bow kills and every good hit and bad hit in the book, I can tell you where an arrow just doesn't work.
A lot of you put too much confidence in speed when it is arrow weight that counts. Step a heavy arrow (600+ grains) up to 240+ fps and now you are talking killing power. For example, I shot at a deers neck as she was facing me, the arrow went in and out of her neck, into her back and came out between her back legs and went 10" into the ground. THIS SAME ARROW HAS STOPPED IN A SHOULDER! My arrow weighs 656 grs. Even if you have a lot of energy with your arrow, it's light weight can cost penetration if the wrong place is hit.
If you give me your arrow weight and velocity, I will figure the energy. But remember this means little if the arrow is very light.
What more can I say? I will bet a hundred guys here can relate an arrow coming to a dead stop in a shoulder.

Guess I should have made it more clear - I wasn't shooting for the shoulder and never aim for that point on purpuse - too many things can go wrong, just as it did for me.

I'm not exactly shooting toothpicks, with 100 grn points, my arrows weigh 475 grns and at a velocity of 250 fps, I'm in the 65 ft-lb range of energy - plenty even for elk.

Tony D

Ok, just guessing... because the only one that really knows is that doe.

The tallow, and the attitude of the deer after the shot leads me to believe you hit her in one of two extremes:
{1} Very low, possibly even got a bit of the front leg [near side]. You didn't get into the chest cavity at all but probably scored her sternum is a serious way. Deer will in all likelyhood live.

{2} Very high, and just slid the arrow over her spine and through the fat on the (off) side of her backstrap/shoulder. Deer will live.

Scenario {2} would be likely if she 'jumped the string'.... but you say she stopped and even fed after the shot. I don't think she knew what hit her till it hit her... and then she still didn't know you were there. I tend to favor {1} and a flinch with the bow arm at or just before release. Tallow will staunch a lot of blood flow, in my experience, so that would explain the difficulty in tracking. You should have been able to find blood where she stopped to feed. You did hit her with a large razor.

I might have missed it, but I didn't see what kind of angle you were shooting from. A high stand really cuts down on the kill zone. I don't like to be any higher than I have to -- just high enough to get out of the deer's line of sight.

BTW, I always shoot for the shoulder.... getting bone whenever possible. I shoot a PSE fireflite express at 75lbs, 29" 2413s (overdraw), and an MECHANICAL HEAD (nap spitfire 100).
I always get a full passthru even after breaking ribs and a shoulder (or too!).
I take shots out to 35yds with this setup because I KNOW I can kill to that range. This is not to say that everyone should do this! Just that it works for me and it is silly to make general statements about broadhead design and draw weight.

Get your head up, Tony. The first 2 years I hunted with a bow I got skunked big-time. I wounded 2 deer (buzzards got them) and I was ready to quit. I promised myself I would do whatever it took to not waste another deer. You just need to find the setup/practice/hunt that works for you.

Nebraska, I would need the arrow weight in grs. (complete arrow)

Tony, I was not implying you shot for the shoulder! The ones that I hit in the shoulder were accidents too. I know you would not do it on purpose. Sorry if it sounded that way. I have learned to aim a little farther back and a little lower, but things happen that once the arrow is gone, it is too late.
Yes, your bow is good enough for any animal. Only thing I have been trying to say is that shoulders are tough in any animal. I never figured out why because they are not real thick. I have shot through deer and cut the opposite leg in half, cut spines in half and so on, but that stinking thin plate in the shoulder can stop a powerful arrow one time and the next it just goes through????
I shot a spike this year and I was out of position and flung my bow arm to the left. I hit the deer in the spine right behind the head. So, see, I am not perfect either! I have gone over this shot many times and can't for the life of me figure how I blew it that much. Of course it worked better then if I would have just threw it a little and hit the god blessed shoulder. So laugh with me and at me!

I'm not exactly a rookie - I've taken 10 deer in the last 15 years. This was a Murphy's Law year, if it could go wrong, it did. Moved at wrong time, missed shots and in this last case poor arrow placement. I also got skunked on a 'lope hunt in Wyoming and during our firearms season. Saw a bunch of animals, but Murphys Law struck every time. Guess we all have to go through a season like this, just so we appreciate the good years a little more!

I could see the entry point midway up the deer's chest. I was in a stand, about 15' high - the angle wasn't extreme. The only way the arrow didn't go through the lungs is being turned by the shoulder bone. There were no branches in way - a clear shot less than 10 yards away. Shoulda been a slam dunk. Just need to get this season over with and start practicing for next year..

Tony, counting bows, rifles, shotguns, crossbows, muzzle loaders and handguns, I have way over 300 deer from 5 different states. My friend has more because he hunts with a rifle only and has to thin deer for farmers. This year he shot 18.
I have seen it all and done it all so I know exactly what you are saying. I haven't lost many deer, but some could not be explained as the hits were good. Some were just not thinking and using the wrong pin or not getting the distance right and creasing the top of the back. A lot of clean misses that I would rather do instead of making a poor hit. It happens to anyone that hunts and we just have to get over it and hope the deer survived. They are extremely tough critters when wounded. I read about a big buck that was shot and when the hunter went to gut it, he found a growth in the chest. The game dept. did the cutting and found a stick, if I remember it was 18" long, stuck through the deers heart, part of a lung and through the diaphram. It was totally healed up and the deer was running full bore when shot, none the worse for wear. The stick was burned to a point and they figure he ran into it on a burned tree and it went in and broke off. I also shot a lot of deer in PA and found quite a few with healed up .22 bullets lodged against the chest wall after going through the lungs. So much for some sportsmen in PA. Lots of poachers too.

I haven't seen it all, but I've seen plenty enough to know these magnificent animals have a extreme will to live! It sure hurts to miss, even more to wound, but we move on and learn - I sure have in this instance! I also gain more and more respect for these finest of God's creatures.



I've been hunting since a young boy and at 45, I find I enjoy the experience of hunting as much as, if not more than the kill. Yes, I want game on the ground, meat in the freezer and antlers on the wall. But the kill isn't quite as important to me as it used to be.



Thanks for keeping this thread going! It has really been cathartic and has me ready to move on. Now I can get excited about my Illinois handgun hunt this weekend! It's antlerless only, but I don't mind...

Tony, I wish you luck with the handgun.
One thing I have found in all these years of hunting is that bucks are easier to shoot at then does. That is if you have one near. Does spend their lives protecting fawns and NOTHING gets by them. A slight wrong noise or movement and they just go. Don't feel put down hunting does as second class deer. They are not second class and taste better besides. So, enjoy yourself!

I love hunting does! Besides, you can't eat horns.

My cousin has about 80 acres where he lives and hunts. He has one old doe that walks around the woods like she's squirrel hunting. Yep - she's looking for him in his deer stand. He says he needs to shoot her before she totally educates the other deer. I agree a mature doe can be almost as tough as a crusty old buck. When you get down to it any game animal taken ethically is a trophy, especially with a bow and arrow.

Tony D ><>

Tony, a long time ago in PA, I had a doe spot me in my stand. Every day from then on, she would walk close, then move to the next trail to get past me and then come back to the first trail. I put a stand on the second trail and put a dummy in my first stand. She walked right past me and wound up in my freezer.

A lot of good things have been said but if that deer jumped then settled down and feed it had no idea it was hit. Especially if you miss all bone. It most likely did not hit a vital spot or you should have found the deer if you gave it time to bed. If you would have hit a shoulder you would not likely have gotten a pass through and found the arrow stuck in the ground as it was found and the deer would have run off a little wilder than it did.