Anybody got a some FMJ and/or FMJ Dangerous Game arrows that they could measure for me? I need outside diameter caliper measurements. (Nearest thousandth of an inch.)

Hi Don.
I use the DG 250 arrow with a 180gr or 210gr German Kinetic broad head (not the Silver Flame from China) on all my big game shots.
You can not go better for a standard setup than that.
Regards

I've got 9 of the original 180 gr Silver Flames from Germany.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:
I've got 9 of the original 180 gr Silver Flames from Germany.

Keep them!!

In my opinion they are the best. Even better than the Ashby. I have never used a better head in all my hunting than a GK. Many makes of broadhears are sent to me for testing on actual hunting and never have I seen anything better.

My DG 250 arrows are 7,56mm in diameter (outside measurement). Sorry but my vernier caliper has no inches.

No sweat, I can convert, thanks!

I'm surprised to hear you guys rate the GK over the Ashby. I used the original GK's on two giraffe hunts (150gr). On the first the tip snapped off into the offside rib (it was one of the original profile GK's). The next one was not recovered as the animal fell on the entrance wound side. When building arrows for my elephant rig I moved to the Ashby as I wanted to go as heavy as possible and liked the long cutting edges with the tanto type tip. I did not connect on my first elephant hunt but hope to rectify that in August on my next trip. For the record the giraffe rig was as follows:
Bowtech Tribute 83lbs, 800gr arrow (Easton FMJ + plastic insert + 150 GK + 4 inch quickspins)
Elephant rig is Bowtech Tribute 93+ lbs, 1100gr arrow (Easton big game 250, 100gr brass insert, threaded bar insert,315 Ashby, 5 inch feathers)
JCHB

Hi there JCHB.
I will certainly not hesitate to hunt an Elephant with an Ashby if I had to. When I started guiding for Dangerous game with a bow, the only quality BH was the 210gr Steelforce. We hunted everything with it and it never let us down.

Since the GK's came out I changed to them because they are sharper and I find them easier to tune and we got better penetration (all other factors being equal)

I would hesitate to use a 150gr GK on a Giraffe. Their bones are like steel. I would use either the 180gr or the 210gr GK.

My problem with the Ashby is that it was developed for Trad bows. Heavy tips with heavy arrows launched from a "slow" bow. Dont get my wrong - they are great broad heads!!

Most people like to quote Ashby on most things but he did most of his testing with Trad equipment and you can not compare Trad with Compound.

As soon as you go to extreme FOC with an arrow and launch it out of a high performance-high poundage compound bow, you have serious spine problems.

On Pachyderm hunts I like and arrow to weigh between 950-1100gr doing between 210-230fps.

In my experience I have found that to be the "sweet-spot" combination with great penetrating ability. It goes through any rib and will destroy the vitals of an animal.

Of all the Big-6 that I have hunted I found the Rhino to have the hardest skin and bone followed by Hippo and then Elephant. I also found that a Giraffe is much harder to penetrate than any Buffalo.

With extreme FOC arrows you run the risk of "shaft-failure" during release and that can put a quick stop to your hunt if the shaft shatters on release and goes into your bow-hand.

One thing that many hunters do not think off when building these ultra heavy arrows that they shoot from heavy poundage is the strength of the nock. I had two that failed on me already during release that ended up the same as a dry-fire. Luckily I did not get hurt in the process. My setup was/is:
Bowtech Beast @ 92lb with 1050gr arrows.

Now I get the strongest nocks that I can or I inspect every nock every time before I shoot. The nock has to absorb more energy than the arrow and that worries me.

hey don i forgot to add 3 rivers archery makes arrow footings to make the ends of the arrow there called carbon collors they come in a verity of sizes and im shure hopefully these should work for you i have a dozen of them im gonna install they look as if they would work

i buy 100% of my archery supplys from this place they have absoltuly everything for making heavy arrows and tradtional archery they have lots of compund wheel bow supplys as well and can get you anything you need if they dont already have it.

ps the 315 grain ashby head owned all and all other head bow to it power.

at the moment im using the 220 grain 4bld/200 grain 2 blade muzzey phantom i just got another dozen of these heads i use them exculsivly for 90% of my archery hunting i also have some unvented 3 blade 250 grain woodsman heads i use and they blow huge holes in stuff the only time i can warrent the ashby is when hunting african game plus 100$ for 3 is a bit much when iv seen the phantoms blow thru elephant as well and there 40$ for 3.

there is a vid on you tube of a guy that shoots a 200 grain phantom with a 80 pound bow and a 1000 grain arrow and it blows right thru a cape buffalo shoulder keeps goind and lodges into the fsr off side shoulder blade breaking it as well. id say that works because after they pulled the arro out it could of been shot again it was still sharp and stright.


http://www.3riversarchery.com/product.asp?i=4920X

Fritz,
How many documented shaft failures have you seen?
What were the shafts and set ups involved?

I find that interesting and would like to learn more.

Good day SDhunter.
I have seen only two in my life. I can honestly not say that the shaft failed because of to weak spine or if the shafts were damaged prior to shooting them. One was a Gold Tip Big Game 100 that had things in it to make it very heavy.
The other one was a Carbon Express. I can not remember the model but it was also a heavy arrow.
I have seen more nocks that failed because of heavy arrows that was shot out of heavy poundage speed bows than shafts that failed.
I think that it would be unwise to blame the failure of any of the above mentioned failures on only one aspect. I would suspect it being a combination of a few things combined.

Thanks for info, something to tuck away for future reference.

quote:

Originally posted by 700 nitro:
hey don i forgot to add 3 rivers archery makes arrow footings to make the ends of the arrow there called carbon collors they come in a verity of sizes and im shure hopefully these should work for you i have a dozen of them im gonna install they look as if they would work

Thanks for the info. I'm using longer 2.5" aluminum footings.