I shoot (shot) a 2006 100# Bowtech Tribute until yesterday. I have been shooting this bow since March and with geat success, taking many quality animals with it. The 660 grain arrows that I was shooting @ 275f/p/s were awesome, even out to 75 yards.

The bow started getting a "twangy" sound to it and I thought that I was feeling more recoil than I was used to. I was not the only one and a few people commented on my bow being noiser than normal.

Not long after that - (I had shot about 60 arrows that morning)- I inspected my bow and found that the bottom limb had cracked in half and delaminated with a 10cm crack along the side - the bottom limb had also started to crack at the v where the cam is seated. The top limb had started to crack as well at the v where the cam is seated.

What would have happened if I had shot one or two more shots? That worries me..........

I never shot this bow over 100 and in fact mostly kept it at 97 - I also shot heavy arrows especially because of all the 100 pound limbs that I know have broken on the Bowtechs before. (My friend has had his 100# Allegiance limbs replaced 4 times.)

Any thoughts? Would you change or trust the replacment limbs?

Lastly, if your bow becomes "twangy" and noisy or if you feel that there is more recoil than normal, check those limbs!

Tough call brother. I don't know if the 6 grains per pound rule works on a curve or not. Meaning, once you get up into 90-100 pound weight it may rise sharply based on a limb/eccentric model. I dunno, I flunked physics!
Even then, you are still at 6.6 grains per pound. The only thing I can think of is if the bow was really loud or downright nasty to shoot from day one then you probably have a little too much energy coursing through it and the limbs were getting a workout they didn't ask for. If the bow shot normally, then you probably just had a defective limb. Don't know if Bowtech replaces both limbs but I would request to have both limbs replaced. Ususally that is the norm. because they are usually made in pairs. Oh ya, have them silk screen "Elephant Stopper" on the limbs for your trouble! LOL

God Bless,

Corey

When I got this bow I was a little sceptical but once I got used to it, it was a very quite and sweet shooting bow with almost no recoil. I shot 297/300 on a standard 20m indoor fita at 97 pounds using 660 grain big game 100's with airtube inserts. I shot target, did 3 D and hunted with it - (I am a one bow at a time person)

Its just the limbs - with a track record of broken 100 pound limbs, how can you trust them again. Also, what if that pops into your face?

Dont get me wrong, I love the bow - I hate the threat of those limbs going though ...

Soroko

I feel Sorry for You.
If my memory serves, I think Don told us about defective 100# Bowtech. It seems there are still a couple of records. You are in a tricky situation : nothing can prove that new limbs will dure.
By the way, what shafts are You using?
I am a satisfied owner of a 90# Bowtech allegiance but count on me to check my limbs now. A tad under 90# at 30" and with 510 grains arrow I fear I am not on the safe side. Should I consider shooting heavier arrow?
Yours opinions?

Soroko,

First off, don't live in fear. There is a scripture in the bible that goes like this:

"God hath not given us the spirit of fear; But of power, and love, and a sound mind"

Having faith in your bow brings on the spirit of God. This will bring you peace of mind in your heart and you will go about shooting your bow and winning competitions or dropping cape buffalo!

I was going to recommend lowering the poundage but you are scoring so well in your fita shoots so you can handle it.

The fact that the bow shot so smooth narrows it down to a defective limb. If that bow was a "fear monger" then it wouldn't be available for sale. I have greater faith, than to believe, that the engineers at Bowtech set out to give you a free hair cut!

God Bless,

Corey

Jean,

You could certainly go to a heavier arrow. No harm in it, especially since your poundage is so great, you aren't going to notice any major problems with speed.

If you can find an archery shop that has an FOC scale or, perhaps, someone on the internet knows how to build one, do a search. FOC means "front of center" and is the balancing point of the arrow. Since the tip is heavier than the fletching then the balance point of the arrow is going to be more towards the field point or broadhead. This is where they get "front of center" from.
If you had access to one of these scales, you could choose a heavier arrow, check the FOC, then really get scientific!:
Center your rest, then experiment with cutting off tiny amounts of the arrow, screw in a certain weight tip, measure FOC, then paper shoot it. If the FOC is off then try different weights of tips and/or cutting off more arrow, then paper shoot it again. If the FOC is optimal and you are getting decent paper tears with the rest perfectly centered then you are good to go. Not only will you have faith in the flight of your arrows because you have the optimal FOC, but you will also have faith in your rest setup, knowing it is centered and fine tuning will be easy. I just never liked the idea of having to move my rest to extremes to get a good tune nor adjusting bow weight to get a good tune. I like to shoot the maximum bow weight that I am comfortable with and leave it there.

I don't get caught up in having to shoot a certain weight tip or broadhead, nor having a certain length of arrow. IMO, if my rest is near centered, if I am shooting my perfect draw weight(not too heavy but not too light!), if my FOC is optimal and if I am getting a great tune, I am not concerned about my tip/broadhead weight nor the fact that my arrow might be sticking out a little bit.

God Bless,

Corey

Jean- I think they have a bit of a reputation for this. Check out the archery sites and you may be able to confirm this. Have you considered the Mathews Black Max 2? I have a couple of these and my heavy setup has been shot a bunch with no problems. Am shooting a finihed arrow weight of 925.

I'm a recurve guy so I'm just talking out my a$$ but isn't all that power lost on light arrows? Wouldn't heavier arrows be far more efficient on the heavier bow? I mean once you achieve 300fps or so-which can be done with 70 lbs isn't the extra 30 lbs wasted, you won't get much faster so all that energy for what?

the chef

Thanks Infaith + all others for the reply's.

The big game 100's with the airtube inserts worked well and paper tested 100%. I am a firm believer in the paper test and always make sure that I have bullet holese before I set for distance. I am also a firm believer in the heavier arrows as that allows for more impact momentum and tissue penetration at longer distances.I believed that the 660 grain was a good average weight for this poundage - heavier would be easier on a bow but I choose a meduim where I would stay in the 270f/p/s range.

My point was to let Bowtech owners know that if your bow sarts to "sound different" be careful -check those limbs.

This bowtech was awesome - it is just very sad and dissapointing that bowtech limbs break all the time. I know of no one who has a 100# bowtech who has not had limb breakage. I always believed that bows had about a 20 pound safety factor built into them.

I used to shoot a Mathews Outback with a Switchback cam on it and this bow was set at 89 pounds! That was why I bought the Bowtech as I was worried that the limbs on the Outback would break as it was 19 pounds over spec.

Ironically, the guy that I sold this bow to dry fired it and the cam and strings were in an absolute mess but the limbs are still intact and with a new cam and strings it is shooting without any problems...........

Crane,

I was on the verge to buy a used Mathews Black max when Don itemized the pros and cons of the black max and the Allegiance. I asked Mathews about the Black max 2, but it was then not yet on the market.
It resulted I bought the Bowtech. I like the Allegiance though Mathews cams are globally smoother.

Chef,
I am a snapshooter and I love the recurves……….but they don’t like me , at each shot, the handshock resonates and ruins my left elbow’s joint.
I am attempting to shoot a buff next summer. That’s why I am training with a 90# bow. My usual hunts are done with Mathews @ 60-70#.

Infaith,

The first words of the late Pope John Paul the 2nd when elected were “Don’t be afraidâ€. The more I think of , the more I think it’s relevant in any situation at any moment. “Don’t be afraidâ€.

Thanks for Your concern and your help.
You speak of gold and I confess I let the papertuning down for too long a time with this Allegiance. I have the bad habit to shoot it with a medley of different shafts and I don’t stick with only one. I would have liked to use Beman MFX or Easton axis, but they are a pain in the back to remove from a target. The FOC was never my concern for I like heavy points but I reckon it’s better when tested. For the moment I am shooting the Bowtech mostly to be fit and the accuracy is second after physical training.
I think I have to retain one type of shaft and tune the couple bow+arrow.
I think a nice website is
huntersfriend
Are You aware of other didactic websites?
Thanks
Jb


Soroko

You seem to be almost a pro?
I would like to know what shafts are You using with Your 100# tribute?

Jean,

I am a hunter and hobby shooter myself so I don't get much more in depth than paper tuning. In reality, one can fine tune after a perfect bullet hole paper tune, i.e. tuning for the tightest groups but I have never gotten into it yet Actually the Easton Archery website has a good tutorial on the subject:

http://www.eastonarchery.com/

Actually just read this article by Chuck Adams and I must say, that it was the best article I have ever read on hunting arrows in my life. Not only did it inspire me to go back to aluminum arrows, it made me realise that straight arrows are important. Amen! :

http://www.eastonarchery.com/articles/aluminumaremyfav.asp

God Bless,

Corey

I forgot to mention a really nifty idea for paper tuning. Got this from my bowshop.

If you can go to a newspaper company and ask if they have any roles of thin newsprint around. You should be able to get a large roll for 10-15 dollars that will last you a lifetime. Hang the roll from your shop ceiling on some rope and a stick, then you can pull down what you need. The arrows zip through this stuff like butter and leave a nice tear.

Corey

Concerning Pope Paul comment about "Don't be afraid", well, I don't know about the Roman bible but the King James bible has one scripture that basically says, "anything not done in faith is sin" I think it is out of the book of Romans ironically. That is how important it is to our salvation that we live by faith.

Not sure what didactic means but I don't have any other Christian websites that I would recommend. IMO, 99.9% of all stuff on the Internet is of the Devil, spreading false doctrine and half truth's. 99.9% of all books also that one can buy are basically worthless IMO.
I highly recommend any Christian work out their own salvation from reading the King James bible and pray, pray, pray, pray, pray. Oh, and don't forget fear and trembling! LOL
One can do a search of Smith Wigglesworth and find a man who put all his faith in the King James bible and God used him mightily. That man couldn't read till he was 20 years old and the only book he ever read in his life was the bible. He had such a strong annointing that he was like an apostle out of the book of Acts.

One time he simply walked into a factory and men, not even seeing him, were brought under conviction, turning off their machines, falling to their knees, crying and repenting.

There is so much emphasis put on teaching these days and many are being led astray. What is needed today is good old fashioned, annointed preaching in place of all the dry teaching! Amen.

Don't trust me, don't trust your friends, don't trust anybody with your eternal future. Read the King James bible, pray and you will receive discernment of what is real and what isn't.

There are only 2 books I recommend besides the King James bible:

"In Awe Of Thy Word" by Gail Riplinger

http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html

"God's Plan For Man" by Finis Dake

http://www.dake.com/dakesite/dakesite/books.html

God Bless,

Corey

Thanks for posting this. I was considering buying a 100# Tribute. I had not heard of a single Tribute failure until you posted this. Bowtech had a lot of limb failures in 2005, but I was told they fixed the problem.

Bowtech recently told me they would not honor the warranty on anything bigger than 80# - but they claimed it was due to a lot of people shooting arrows that weighed less than 5 gr/per pound pull.

I would have expected a 100# Tribute to get up into the 280s with a 660 grain arrow - but 660 is plenty heavy enough for that bow.

The bow is a sweet shooting bow once you get used to it. I was also told that there was no warranty on the limbs. This point lets me wonder - why not warranty something that you have faith in?
My dealer secured me a set of 80# limbs and has ordered me another set of 100# limbs - when I get these then I have to return the 80's.

This weekend I shot an Ostrich using the 80's and the 660g big game 100 with airtube inserts and a 125 g Tekan. I shot the Ostrich over 75 yards and the setup worked really, really well -so well in fact that I am considering negotiating keeping these limbs.

Dont get me wrong DonG, I like the bow very much and posted this to create awareness of the sound to listen for/change of sound that would indicate trouble. If it's a 100# that you are looking for, no one else builds one, right?

Soroko,

I asked the tech at Bowtech why they did not warranty the 100# Bowtechs, and he said that people are forever shooting them with 350 grain arrows - much too light for a 100# bow. He'd said they'd had no other issues with the 100# limbs.

I'm like you in that I like to use heavy arrows and keep the speed between 250-270 fps.

I believe PSE makes a very expensive and relatively low-energy 100# bow.

I was told that last year you could still order 100# bows from Hoyt, but that - like Bowtech - they were not advertised as available.

Don_G
I understand Bowtechs predicament with regards to the lighter arrows - this argument holds true with 70, 80 and 90 pound bows as well though. I draw the line between "use" and "abuse." I am sure that the bowtech technical department can do an autopsy on limbs and pick up the "abuse" and decline replacment based on this.

I dont know how true this is but there is a rumour here in SA - (stress, only a rumour) that there was a problem with the 100 limbs in the production process and that they were made to inflexible/brittle. This was on the Allegiance - I was told that this had been solved with the Tribute.

I never shot my bow over 100, always shot the heavier arrows - my dealer is a personal friend and he was the only one to ever work on the bow so he knows all this very well.

What I would like to know is just how badly can these limbs GO when they GO? I had 113 f/p's of KE held back there - could these limbs break completely and result in serious injury? Appreciate if you could answer on that for interest sake.

BTW - what setup do you shoot at the moment?

I'm not a professional when it comes to broken limbs. I have seen it happen only once. That was many years ago on a Browning. The limbs cracked on a dry-fire.

Since then I never draw a bow without an arrow in it.

I, too, heard that any BowTech limb problems were with the Allegiance and ended in late 2005. I have an early 80# 2005 Allegiance and have had no problems with it. I regularly shoot 586 grain and 900 grain arrows in it - nothing lighter. I have had zero problems with it.

One Bowtech tech told me that there was a theory going around that some of the limb failures could be attributed to leaving a bow in a closed-up car in the summer time - that makes a solar oven with temps exceeding 150F.

He said that he shot competition and hunted exclusively with BowTechs for 5 years. He said he had had zero broken/cracked limbs and usually had 9 bows tuned up at any one time.

I personally think that what press is used to service the bow, and how the press is set up is the biggest factor in limb breakage on parallel limb bows. I use a cable press on my bows, and do all my own work at home.

I do not think that broken limbs from abuse can be told apart from any other broken limb.

I wouldn't ignore the obvious. Looks like the arrows are too light, so they probably are.

The 5 gr/lb rule is just a guide. In my experience once you get above 80lbs you're probably better off with 7gr/lb.

Heavier arrows increase the mechanical efficiency of the bow. This means more of the potential energy goes into the arrow than the bow itself. When you have a bow that develops cracks in the limbs from shooting that's a pretty good indication too much energy is being absorbed by the bow and not enough by the arrow. This is especially true if you have been shooting the bow for quite some time with no problems. A manufacturers defect in the limb will typically show up right away. An arrow that is marginal weight will shorten the fatigue life of the limbs.

I would definately go with heavier arrows with that setup.

TBG,

I agree with you on the 7 gr/lb guideline. But Soroko is already at 6.6 gr/lb, so increasing from 660 to 700 grain arrows would probably not change limb behavior significantly.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:
TBG,

I agree with you on the 7 gr/lb guideline. But Soroko is already at 6.6 gr/lb, so increasing from 660 to 700 grain arrows would probably not change limb behavior significantly.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply such a small change, IMO, he should go at least 100-150grs heavier.

Sensible advice - that is what I will do. I will go up to about 800 grains.

BTW - those same 660 grain arrows shot with the 80# limbs fly sweet and true.

My buddy just had his limbs crack on a 80lb Allegiance. He was shooting about 78 lbs with heavy arrows and is a little disappointed. You might want to check out the chatter at Archerytalk.com to see if there is a widespread problem developing

tped - how many grains were his arrows?

I am not sure - he uses aluminum arrows and as best I remeber they are in the 650-700 range. Uses 125 grain heads and are no where close to being too light.

Those are heavy arrows for an 80 pound bow.
Don_G mentioned heat in car and light arrows as two possible causes that made sense. I know that in my case it was neither.

Does anyone here have a contact at Bowtech where this question can be posed? What are the other causes? Is there any truth that there was defect in the production of certain limbs?

I will continue to shoot my Bowtech as I am very comfortable with it. It would simply be good to know the answers to why they have so many limb failures.

The new Bowtechs are out now and I also wonder if these problems have been addressed there as the riser design is very different.

Although this offers little help it is an interesting story. I was at my local pro shop about eight years ago when a man was there to pick up a PSE (something along the Baby G model type) he had the shop switch out the limbs to a set with hevior poundage. One of the shop pros was doing something to it while in a bow press. Once finished he handed it over the counter to the owner and instructed him to "pull er back for a look see". That bow litterally seemed to explode. Some where near comming to full draw, both limbs shattered at wear they attached to the limb pockets while making the most God offal poping and snapping noise one could ever imagine. Although I succeded to duck down behind a display case, I still saw over 90% of what happened. When I stuck my head back up I saw the bows owner standing there motionless still grasping the now limbless riser, with this "holly Sh-t I just Pi-ssed my self" look on his face. The limbs, cams and all related hard wear came to rest behind him on the floor, after crashing against the corragated metel wall. If I remember, left quite a respectable dent in said wall.

Thankfully no one was hurt except for the owner of the bow. He had a few slivers in his arm and chest from the shattered limbs, although not all that bad.

I was surprised that everyone but the bow owner laughed when once I saw him still standing there arm extended holding the bow in near perfect shooting form I said, "well look on the bright side at least you know you have an awesome fallow through".

I then told him to thank God you were using just your fingers and not using a release when it happened, I dont like to think what could have happened to him if he was.

I never did find out what caused that major limb failure and the pro shop did give him a brand new bow. After that no one involved was all that willing to talk about it, at least to me.

I have had the same thing happen to two Hoyts. Each was shot for about a year before I cracked the limbs. I didn't worry too much about it and sent the bows back to Hoyt. They replaced the limbs free of charge and I kept on shooting. These were also high end bows that I shot at 300+fps. They were also 80#. Limbs do wear out, especially these super fast bows. I'm shooting an Allegiance now and love it but it is a 70 pounder. Much easier on the shoulder.

I've become quite attached to the 80# limbs on my bow and it is shooting smooth and very easy. I have decided that when I get my replacement 100# limbs, I am going to store them.

I was at the local sporting goods chain store today and I got the "bug" to get a bow for hunting. I wanted to get around buying half a dozen low end or mid range or starter bows. I am getting to darn old for that stuff. So I told the saleman/archer "lets start with a good bow".
So now I am considering a Diamond, Black Ice by Bowtech with the timberline package.

Maybe u should change the limbs & crank it down by 20% to keep the stress at bay.