Boss,

Solo is a good idea...looks safe and wouldn't hurt the bow.

Thanks!!

Lowrider 49, I use a simple hip quiver. But, since I can shoot in my yard, I just take the arrows I'm going to shoot, and bring them out with me, and just prop them against something.

Glad to hear you're happy with your bow. I was very surprised with the X200 as it's the "affordable" bow. But when looking at it's performance, it's pretty much in the same catagory as the Dreamcatcher.

mike

Yip, Pretty happy with it and it looks like I need to get another one for #2 son...he's threatening to take it from me.

I shot a variety of arrows today and it seems to like light carbon arrows better than heavier Alum 2117s with 125 gr field points. That is different from what I have been reading for recurve bows. Also, most of the arrows I have are a little stiff (50 - 60 lb) and too long. Shortening will just make it worse.

Do you guys find your recurves shoot lighter or heavy arrows best or does it vary?

quote:

Do you guys find your recurves shoot lighter or heavy arrows best or does it vary?

I have three bows build the same bowyer, same design - different draw wts. They shoot best witharrows that are 8.5 grs per # of draw(Spined correctly of course) light according to some trad shooters...heavy to some compounders.

Start around 10 gr. per # of Draw wt.

I've only hunted with Carbon arrows for the last 8 years.

Folks,

I set up some Vapor Black carbon at 390 grains (right at 10 gr/lb)and they would not fully stablize at 20 yds. I tried 2117s at well over 500 grs and they seem to shoot much better and noticably slower...like shooting a fence post. Both have a 50-55 lb spine so they are a little stiff for my 40 lb X-200. The carbons have 4" vanes and the Alum have 5" vanes.

Question is....will properly (lighter) spined carbons stabilize as well as the heavy alum arrows?.... and if I use 5" vanes on the carbons, will that do the trick?? OR...Should I try properly spined carbons and put the weight up to around 500 grains??

What's the best guess??

Happy Easter!!

I use 2117's on my 50 lb and they are a little stiff for it...I'd think you are way over spined for 40 lbs.

quote:

Question is....will properly (lighter) spined carbons stabilize as well as the heavy alum arrows?.... and if I use 5" vanes on the carbons, will that do the trick??

Carbons should stablize right off the self(almost). If you are using Vanes and not feathers there's your problem. Start with 5 1/2
hi-backs parabolic or shield cut(Bannana cut are very loud) Those big feather will straiten your arrows.

Fletch up 3 to practice with.

You can use a bull knife blade( old folder works good) to GENTLY stape the vanes off. Laquier thinner will remove the residual glue....Just don't leave it on too long.

I've refleched a few arrow 6-7 times ver the years.

Lowrider 49, I don't know why, but all my bows like shooting Easton alum. 2119's. I've tried 2117's, and a whole host of other arrows. It's left me scratching my head, but in the end, I can get them for cheap, so I don't complain.

I've got 6 of the old Beman carbons (the "REALLY" thin shafted ones). They're only spined for 50, so I can only shoot them out of my PSE (no biggie). They shoot like darts from a blow gun though.

In the end, I've gotten used to shooting "fence posts" The 2119's work for all my bows, so I can't argue too much.

mike

Thanks gentlemen!!

I've tried all I have in the way of arrows and they are still not shooting the way I would like. I had forgotten how may arrows I have for compounds...damn I don't remember buying all those arrows!! They are all in the 50 - 60 lb range and too heavy for the 40 lb recurve....I think.

I'm going to buy some 1816s and some 5" feathers and see how that works out. If it doesn't do what I think it should, I'll go back to the fence posts.

Lowrider 49, Well, best of luck in finding arrows that work well. I just got lucky. I bought my first batch of arrows at Walmart when they were on clearance, for $1.50 each. And what a relief that my bows (all 3) like these arrows. (Easton Game Getters 2119) Works for me.

mike

Mike/Boss,

i shot 36 arrows this afternoon, all 2117s and in two lengths, 28" and 29" with 125 gr field points and with 5" vanes. They all shot better than Beman, Vapor Black and AFC 2300 with 125 gr field pts and 4" vanes. None of them shoot well, most were tail high on impact at 20 yds and the 2117s shot to the left about 3-4" from the carbons with what I believe is the same hold.

Could it be that all of my arrow problems could be fixed by using feathers rather than vanes?

Just to make sure I can still shoot...I got out a compound and shot 2" groups at 20 yds using sights and a release.

Feathers will stabelize the arrow a lot faster, they create more drag. If I release poorly I get they almost going sideways, but the feathers eventually take over and straighten them out. Are you shooting off the shelf or a rest? You could also try shooting cock feather in. It makes a difference for some shooters, doesn't seem to change much for me.

Tail high? Try raising up your knock point. Is the shelf curved so the middle is higher and hopefully the side isn't radiused. Also remember that you're not going to have perfect flight like your compound.

Lowrider 49, I use 5" feathers in right hand helical. This works for me, but maybe something else might work better for you. I personally don't like vanes, as they leave icky rubber residue on my bows.

Chef brought up a good point about the rest. Are you using a rest that comes off the riser? or are you shooting off the shelf of the bow? Did you put a leather pad rest on the shelf. Martin supplied one with my Dreamcatcher, did you get one with your bow?

mike

Another thing if you're shooting off the shelf--which is what you should do if you're shooting instinctively....the vanes won't work well at all. Feathers will compress as they go over the shelf, the vanes won't and will cause a lot of jumping around. I suspect this might be the one big thing working against you.

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I just didn't like the residue they left on my bows, so I don't use them.

mike

Damn...lots of good data.

I am shooting off the shelf with a camo shelf pad made from a tough synthetic cloth. I think you guys are right...I need to put feathers on the arrows and see if that helps.

I did adjustthe nock point some and it did help some, but I'm beginning to think the spine is less important than using feathers.

I also put limb savers on the limbs and cat whiskers on the string and they seem to calm the bow somewhat. I'm ordering fethers tomorrow!!

Thanks gentlemen!!

quote:

Could it be that all of my arrow problems could be fixed by using feathers rather than vanes?

YES!!!

Only "fix" one thing at a time.

Start with the feathers.

Next, nock point.

Then spine(left-right grouping)

String silerecers should be dealt with last as you can "tame" you bow more effectively with arrow wt and string thickness(strands) 1st.

Once we get you past these tuning issues the real fun starts. Hang in there...it's worth it.

Good stuff indeed. What's everybodys feelings on string silencers? If I'm aiming to quiet my bow, I just string it a little tighter, so there is less contact with the limbs.

Also, how does the string thickness change the bows performance? (aside from being properly strung for the bows weight).


mike

Thick strings slow things down a little but are quieter. I'm more interested in silence than a couple more feet per second.

OK...5" parabolic feathers are ordered along with 3 finger under tab, 145 gr and 175 gr field points, new hair side plate and rest, string groove silencer and a partridge in a pear tree....going to go shoot now before it rains!!

Thanks guys for all the info...should have the stuff early next week and will advise of outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Thick strings slow things down a little but are quieter. I'm more interested in silence than a couple more feet per second.

Chef - Just a thought here. To acceive the most effecantcy I found that if I start with a thinner string, I can use the arrow wt. to silence the bow with out excessive sting silencers.

I've gone from fur silencers to just a few strands of syder legs.

For hunting ONLY I use a bit if moleskin on the limb tips were the string grove/contact point is on my recurve. Some bowyers will shudder when you talk about coveing the string grooves.
For a few arrows during hunt I believe this is acceptible.

I got the ideafrom some pioctures of old Native American people's bows.

Lol I reread my post....I like the idea of thick quiet strings. Alas mine are an endless loop of fast flite...I don't always do what I preach!! I've been looking at a product called "bow hush" you can find it on the net by searching. Looks like a good idea and it's cheap-like me. Even better If I can find the way they tie it I could make my own.

I'm off to Edmonton to talk to that boyer guy....I'm pretty damned excited. I still shudder to think I passed up a deal on an ADcock.

That's going to haunt me forever.


the chef

Ok. Interesting. My buddy uses rubber fishing grubs cut in half (one at each end of the string) as a silencer. It seems to work. Though so far, I'm so cheap that I haven't even bothered trying silencers.

I figure I'll follow Boss Kongoni's saying, and get close enough to smell it's breath. Then, it won't matter as I'll be so close, the animal won't have time to react. (everybody's got to have a goal right)

145 and 175 grain tips huh? Heavy.

What's everybody use for broadheads? I've found that broadheads with the "lightening holes" cut in the blades whistle like a mad dog when flying through the air. (like a loose field point). I'm looking at the Del-Ma, 1 piece, 3 blade broadheads. What's everybody think?

mike

quote:

My buddy uses rubber fishing grubs cut in half (one at each end of the string) as a silencer. It seems to work. Though so far, I'm so cheap that I haven't even bothered trying silencers.

I tried rubber bands. they weren't too bad either. I was shooting a lot then and they didn't hold up as well as the commerical spyder legs.

The older I get the more I enjoy the challenge of getting very close to the game.

Mike,

I've been using cheap 125 gr Bear solid 2 blade cut on contact without the bleeders for years and they have never failed me on deer. I always get a pass thru with my 53# compound.

The heavy field points are just to experiment with to see how heavy reacts in the X-200. I think I read somewhere that heavy points is a may to make recurves "settle down"...we'll see.

Gentlemen,

Bow stuff arrived this PM. I put the 175 gr field points on the 2117's and I'll be damn if it didn't straighten out the arrows with 5" vanes at 12 yds. pretty well. At 20 yds, the arrows are hitting the target fully stabalized and straight with no other change other than adding 50 grains on the point!!

I didn't have time tonight to set up 2117 shafts with feathers, but will do so as quick as possible and advise on results.

Good!.....You can also try a lighter field point and a bit longer shaft. Start with two inches longer.

Lowrider 49, cool, glad to hear your first experiment worked out for you. I think I'm going to end up in the same ballpark, using the Del-Ma broadheads and adapters. I think I should have about 160 grains when all is said and done.

Longer arrows are an idea. I already use full length (uncut) arrows, so I can't get any longer, but it is an easy way to add weight.

mike

I have the old problem...I've cut them twice and they are still too short!!

Seriously, I do have some 30" blank shafts in 2117 that I usually cut to 28" I can put feathers on and give it a try.

Boss,

Are you saying use the 175 gr points and add 2" or use the 125's I was using before hoping the extra length will help stablize better.??

My wife would probably like two extra inches too...but that's not likely!!

Longer shafts or heavier tips will help to "break the spine" making them bend more during the shot. Heavy tips are a great way to experiment with softer spine without cutting your shafts.

Some guys mistakenly put heavier broadheads on their regualr arrows-thinking they are increasing the weight for better penetration. It's true the weight goes up but the spine is decreased....this changes the arrow dynamics and then they wonder why they missed that great shot. Also the center of balance is affected. If you want heavier arrows you should increase the arrow weight and determine which spine and broadhead weight is best.

too bad it wasn't easier

the chef

I'm happy that things are a little challenging...if they weren't, it wouldn't be fun!!


My 125 gr Bears kill just fine. I continue to get good results with the 175 gr field points on the the 2117s. I was a little surprised how I shot today with just plain old arrows and the 175gr points. I want to get the feathers on the shafts and see if I can reduce the weight and get the same results.

28" 2117's with feathers and 125 gr field point stabalize just fine at 12 yds and farther out as well.

28" Vapor 4000 with 175 gr field points and 4" vanes shoot just fine at 12 yds and out.

30" 2117's with vanes and 125 gr field points shoot just fine at 12 yds and farther.

Have I applied pure dumb luck on 3 different arrow set-ups or is the bow just shooting everything right now? I'm happy with them all, of course, but I'm confused now why roughly the same arrows did not shoot as well before.

I did change the brace height to 8 1/4" from 8" but I can't believe 1/4" makes that much difference. Now if I could shoot 4" groups at 20 yds....I know...practice!!

Thanks everyone for your help!!!

Lowrider 49, changing the brace height does make a difference. I don't know the exact amount per 1/4", but in essence, you slowed the arrow down. It could be one of those things like with rifles, the "fastest" load, isn't always the most accurate.

mike

Mike...thanks...maybe I hit the "sweet spot" for brace height!!

I've noticed that I'm getting horizontal groups, maybe 3" high and 9" - 12" wide. It mght be a grip thing since I have been using a firmer grip than I usually do with a compound bow for some reason. It just doesn't feel comfortable shooting the recurve with a real light grip that I use on a compound.

I'm also thinking my release may be to blame. I'm using 3 under with a glove and I think it is a smooth consistant release...but who knows. I guess more practice is the answer.

I tend to get a little "grippy" with the recurve too. I think it's because it's so light and seems like it should jump out of my hand. It seems to me that if it's a release thing then they don't line up like that so you're probably right.

The thing I'm always amazed by is this--I don't ever have to aim an arrow if I do everything right with the body mechanics that darned arrow will fly exactly where I look. We've all heard about blank bale shooting and it took me a long time to accept it but damned does it work.

Another thing that makes sense to me comes from martial arts training...you can't concentrate on every little detail on every shot. If you want to improve your shooting concentrate on one thing at a time. I'll choose from my little mental list and concentrate on one thing at a time:

Grip
Drawing
anchor point
aligning my body to the angle of my bow cant
push-pull or back tension as some call it
release
follow through

eventually it all comes together in one package and combined with the blank bale shooting I improve a lot as the session progresses.

the chef

Lowrider 49, I don't think the grip is the problem. I personally shoot one over, two under. But I've seen a guy use the three under to draw. His reasoning was that it allowed him to anchor a little higher, and "he" was actually able to "look" down the arrow at his target. I tried this, but it didn't work more me. (wasn't comfortable).

mike

quote:

I've noticed that I'm getting horizontal groups, maybe 3" high and 9" - 12" wide.

My 1st thought was yor anchor point. Also are you getting tired from too many shots.

After you learn your form it will just happen, like throwing a ball.

I agree with Chef, when one's shooting it's best to let it all just happen.


On the upper limb of my longbow (that I have yet to master) I have the Japanesse Kenji symbol for "Wa"...The concept of inner peace & balance.

Interesting addition to a bow. Though it seems to make perfect sense. Especially with traditional archery. Inner peace must be achieved. I'll definitely agree with that.

mike

quote:

Originally posted by cndrm:
Interesting addition to a bow. Though it seems to make perfect sense. Especially with traditional archery. Inner peace must be achieved. I'll definitely agree with that.

mike

The point I believe is to have the bow become part of you...vs. being a a mechanical devise. Something that must happen for one to truely shot instictively.

My Saluki longbow is bamboo & osage ONLY no glass. The bowyer left the bamboo nods on the back of the bow....It just seemed right to add the Japanesse script.

On the lower limb I 've got a line from a Jimmy Buffet song I like, also in kenji script, "A legend never dies".

Something to think about when you get a little tired climbing that ridge to chase whatever's on the other side.