I personaly shoot a Ben Pearson that is older than I am as well as a Seneca for my fall back bow. I shoot instinctivly. I hunt with them. I have nothing against modern bows at all. I just enjoy my recurves. So that being said how many instintive shooters do we have in this forum vs. the modern guys? -Ben

Ben

I am using moderns compounds on the high stand or when approach-hunting.

During driven hunts , I am shooting instinctivly either with a Great Plains 65#rio bravo, take-down
or with a Mathews Conquest 3.

IMO, one can practice instinctive shooting and "modern-whith-sights shooting.

ventalator,

I took an instinctive archer hunting one time and he explained how to just "be the arrow". That afternoon, I pulled all five of his arrows out of the ground from right under his tree to about 20 yards.

I didn't want to sound like an ass, but I couldn't help it as I explained how I could make him somewhat effective with only a piece of tape and a toothpick. He didn't understand what I meant. I told him there is this crazy contraption called a "site" that many people use to hit targets.

Seems like he called me an ass about then. Well, since I was already an ass and everything, I figured I would ask him if he had a site on his .30-06? When he said "of course I do" I said "I rest my case".

So, does this answer your question?

Steve,

Sounds to me like your buddy needs to practice. When I started shooting instinctive, well basicly I was a horrible shot. Many, many, hours of practice later and tadah, I can shoot as good if not beter than my buddies who all have high end, modern bows. I can shoot well with their bows too, I just dont like them. Now do not get me wrong I have missed a couple deer with my recurve, but people miss with modern bows too. I am not saying that I am some kind of archer god or even a really good shot. I just want to see who in this forum does it the old way, thats all. -Ben

I shoot instinctivly.as have hunters for ohhhh about 10,000 years and it seems to have worked.

I don't want to be bothered with range finders or anything else. I want to pick up my bow and shoot it. It's more fun to shoot than to adjust things all the time.

It does take a lot of practice though and in some situations it's harder. Shooting from a treestand screws me up a bit because I perceive the distance differently. I also couldn't shoot through a window in a blind as it affects my depth perception.

I will go against any compound shooter to see who can get an arrow in the target in under 3 seconds. In hunting situations thats pretty damned important.

I'd also go against a compound shooter using sights on moving targets, or flying targets.

I'd definately lose on pinpoint accuracy, but that's not really important. What is important is getting close enough--that takes skill. I can shoot to 40 yards when I'm in good form but truly I prefer 20 yards.

Shooting a bare recurve doesn't make you a better hunter. But if you want to score with a recurve you have to hunt better. There are lots of times I've wished I had a compound-when the animal is too far away. On the other hand I can thread my arrows over and under branches because I know what arc they are flying.

If you want to pick up a bow and hit a target right away with a minimum of practice-get a compound for sure. The new set ups out of the box are pretty impressive.

the chef

I shot barebow (not all unsighted shooting is "instinctive") for several years when working with traditional tackle. These days I have gone over completely to the Dark Side, shooting mechanical-tipped carbons over a dropaway rest on a compound with sights and a release. I shoot better at 40, even 50 yards, than I ever could at 10 with stick and string. I guess these days I'm more of a deer hunter than a bow hunter. Good hunting!

Instinctive shooters,

I have a question...and I'm not being a smart a$$ either.

When you draw your bow, do you look at the arrow or arrow point or anything else on the bow to align it in some way to your target or do you just look at the target?

The reason I ask is that when I was a kid, some 25+ years ago, and shot indoor archery, the people in the bowhunter class would shoot arrows that would hang over the front of the bow at least 6 inches so they could use the tip of the arrow for aiming.

Tell the truth.

Some people use the arrow tip--it's called gap shooting. It works well but if you do that I don't understand why you woudn't use sights.

the chef

Properly shooting a bow instinctually is akin to throwing a football. You don't think, the target is 20 yards away so I will hold this amount over. You just shoot. My dad is a very good shot with his recurve bow. He practices weekly or he loses his feel of how to shoot. I use a compound with sights. John

I was shooting at the calgary archery center this friday evening. There's a fellow there named Rudy ...well anyway a guy challenged him to a contest. They were to each shoot one arrow at at 3d target it was unranged but my guess about 35 yards. Rudy shot one with his longbow and the other guy shot one....guess who won? Yup the longbow shooter. I've seen
Rudy make some fantastic shots ot to 40 yards. Some guys are just so damned good shooting instinctively. I'm ok some nights and terrible others. This friday I was terrible-but I haven't shot for 6 weeks or more. Instinctive shooters have to shoot a lot to keep in tune. I really love not having to estimate yardage though- I just look and shoot. The old brain does the rest.

the chef

Instinctive shooters, assuming that they shoot well, have an advantage over hunters with sights in a lot of real hunting situations. Whitetail deer at close range are often moving and constantly in and out of cover. This offers an advantage to an instinctual shooter. Of course the real advantage may be that most instinctual shooters do practice more than guys with a compound. No doubt a top notch compound shooter will win against a top notch instinctual
shooter in more controlled stationary long range shooting, but actual hunting usually comes down to hitting a 6 inch kill zone. Timing and confidence are more important than raw accuracy. Just my opinion.

Just wanted to add that if you do use a gap method or some other method of aiming, you should be shooting sights because you are not shooting instinctually anyway.

Splinterhands I totally agree about the gap shooting thingy. Sometimes I gap at 40 yards or so just to experiment but I really try to avoid it under normal yardages. One thing I'd like to determine is my point on distance-where you put the point on the target and it hits where it points. I know that it's way more than 40 yards and I never shoot further than that but it would be interesting.

the chef

I'm the MOST instictive trad bowhunter I know. If I even glace at the broadhead, arrow shaft or anything other than my target I'm a lost cause.

I tried to string walk once...never did find those arrows.

quote:

Originally posted by P. Steve Morgan:
Instinctive shooters,

I have a question...and I'm not being a smart a$$ either.

When you draw your bow, do you look at the arrow or arrow point or anything else on the bow to align it in some way to your target or do you just look at the target?

The reason I ask is that when I was a kid, some 25+ years ago, and shot indoor archery, the people in the bowhunter class would shoot arrows that would hang over the front of the bow at least 6 inches so they could use the tip of the arrow for aiming.

Tell the truth.

You may just be remembering folks that got tired and could come to full draw?

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong but you seem to be judging all trad shooters by the one you hunted with. Like any shooting sport the results are based on dedicated practice. There are differant levels no matter what weapon we choose. I sold off all my compounds 10 years ago because I found shooting them to be just too easy - no real challege.

If I'm at a mixed equipment 3-D I shoot MBR or MBO depending on who's in the group. I also only shoot hunting wt. arrows 600-900 gr. depending on which bow(60-85#) I'm shooting that day.

I have used bare bow and sights. I tightened my group from 8" to about 3" at 20 yards.Ishoot an old pse phaser 11 split limb compound approx 1982 era. My longest effective range was 30 yards, beyond that my arrows (2117 eastons) would drop like a stone.I found that 3d shoots
really helped me judge distance and experience near hunting conditions.The biggest lesson i learned was to know your limits and respect them.

When I was young about 30 years ago I used to walk along the river and shoot snakes, birds, and fish I used a Recurve. Later I bought a PSE compound (that some ass stold) and would use it without sights also. It is/was fun putting an arrow through a snake that wasn’t much bigger around if any than the arrow. The PSE worked great on fish I shot many carp and gar (by the way gar are good to eat, but kind of hard to clean) one time I hit a turtle that was about 60/75 ft away and one of the guys was amazed that I actually hit it. The arrow did bounce off the shell but the turtle got the heck out of Dodge fast.

I might also say that sights didn’t work well for me while shooting fish because the string would tangle up in them. I wish I could shoot a bow now but with so much soft tissue damage in my back it just isn’t possible. I am thinking about getting a cross-bow so I can go bow hunting Deer again.

Swede, you bring up a good point. Lots of people think the compound isn't shootable instinctivly. Fred asbell states that the compound is great for shooting instinctivly because you don't have to worry about holding the extra weight. I tend to agree. I've looked for some without a radiused edge on the riser though and haven't been able to find one. I'd like to play aroud a bit with the idea.

The chef

I've been a competitive archer since 1959. In competition I shoot in the NFAA Freestyle Limited (fingers-tab) Pro division but since the early 80s I went back to shooting a recurve to hunt with. This is a simple- on the bow gap mark sighting system I use for myself and when I teach.

I sight over- down the top of the arrow and align the arrow vertically in line with the spot- the gap marks are just for elevation. I aim my bowarm at the the target before I draw- so with these gap marks I hold my bowarm at the range/elevation I think the target is before I draw.
On my old Bear teaching bow I put a piece of scotch tape on the edge of the window and then just painted on marks with liquid paper- that was too much trouble- it's easier to just cut little strips of masking tape and stick it on the edge of the window- move them as you settle in on your distances.



On my Partners(Palmer) bow I figured out where my marks were then I stuck a piece of masking tape on the back of the riser window and transfered the marks. Then I used Glow-In-The-Dark stick on material that I use in my darkroom (I'm a photographer) for the permanent marks. I used a little dab of FletchTite fletching cement on the tape so it wouldn't get nocked off. They work great, especially in the dark for hog hunting!!







This photo shows my Quinn Stallion next to my Partners bow. The marks on the Stallion are just strips of masking tape. You can really see the difference in the speed of the 2 bows. both bows are 64" 55# bows that I shoot the same arrows out of.

Thanks for the pics. I only shoot instinctive not gap but it's interesting learning new things. I'm a litttle fuzzy on how you aim. Do you hold the mark on the bow on the same level as the target and sight on the tip of the arrow? How does it work on odd ranges- like 33 yards if you have a 30 and 40 mark?

thanks

quote:

calgarychef1:
"Do you hold the mark on the bow on the same level as the target and sight on the tip of the arrow?
How does it work on odd ranges- like 33 yards if you have a 30 and 40 mark?"

YEAP... I sight down the arrow and use the marks to determine how high to hold the bow next to the target- then draw- sighting over the point.
33yds would be 1/3 the distance between the 30 & 40 yard mark

Are you "gun barreling" the arrow or sighting on the tip?

I have a classic split finger anchor with the tip of my index finger in the corner of my mouth. My eye is just barely left of the string. I use the gap marks as said- to get elevation and the tip of the arrow just to make sure of my left-right. After I feel like I'm lined up I "FOCUS" on the spot.

Jack,
that is a very interesting way of doing it. I have not seen that before. I do not look at my bow or arrow at all, if I do I tend to get distracted and sloppy. I look only at the very point I want my arrow to hit. To be consisten I pull a full lenght arrow back untill I feel the broad head on my left forefinger anf my right thumb rests on my ear. That is just how I do it. Not for everybody. Like I said before I am not a perfect bow shot, just a trasitional shooter. And I guess I am not a true traditional shooter, I bought my bow,use heavy carbon arrows and snuffer 150-185 gr broadheads. Still not sure if I like the 150 or the 185 more. have seen very impressive results with both.-Ben