I lost a deer this past week after hitting it just behind the shoulder blades almost a straight down shot. The mech. broadhead Gametracker silvertip didn't open and only went in 4". I threw the rest out and went back to Thunderheads.I have heard some good things about Grim Reapers,Provo Utah. What is your opiion on the best broadhead for Deer and then Elk.

Straight down shots with an arrow are OFTEN feast or famine. Deer either drop to the shot or get away with an arrow sticking out of their backs. It really isn't the best shot and can not be blamed on the broadhead.

If you only got 4" of penetration than you hit heavy bone. I see no reason to assume that the mechanical broadhead did not open.

I've shot many, many mechanical broadheads. If they are checked and maintained you should have no problems with them on whitetails. Obviously, if a mechanical is jammed with dirt, rust or anything else, it stands a good chance of not opening. I have killed most of my whitetails with various mechanicals over the last 15 years.

The perfect broadhead for whitetails & elk may not exist. Typical whitetails weigh less than 200lbs and are easy to penetrate with any bow/broadhead combination. Bull elk may run upwards of 1,000lbs. When shooting large/heavy game animals with a bow I prefer heavy arrows and heavy cut-on-impact broadheads. My favorite broadhead for this type of hunting is the Satelite Titan 145gr. For more penetration, the two bladed fixed broadheads are the best. They also have THICK blades which are very resistant to breakage.

Just my 2 cents - Good luck huntin'
VH

The Steelforce broadhead I killed my buck with did some serious bone crushing through ribs on both side of the buck. Had pass throughs with them on three warthogs.

I've also had good luck with Muzzy Bheads too.

One of the reasons I use Muzzy is the practice blades that are available. My set up is always in tune with them. They don't tear my targets up so I shoot them year round.

I've shot a few hogs with the Grim Reaper head and it preformed well , always opened and always passed through , blades held together.
I like the fact that they can be locked open and out of my bow shoot just the same as they do closed.

I personaly shoot Rockets as my main head , I use a 4 blade Hammerhead for deer and a 4 blade Sidewinder for thougher animals. I have never had one fail to open or pass through , but this is a bias oppinion off my bow as I'm generating around 115lbs KE which I believe helps with forcing the head open and not letting it deflect on hard angleing shots

This is just my openion and I dont really want to tick anyone off but when it comes to broadheads I am kind of a sickler. I think the best broadheads out there are the cut on contact like the ones made by Delta, Steelforce, Satellite, or any other of the like. The second best are the Fixed Replaceable blade style from companies like Muzzy, Thunderhead, and Wasp. Third are the Mechanicals and here is why I dont like them although Ive killed alot of deer using them in the past. First they have a bad habit of turning a marginal shot into a bad shot where you sometimes can get away with it with a fixed bladed head. Now Im not saying that we should consider taking marginal shots but once in a while due to the million and one variables out there which face us as bowhunters we may unknowingly take a bad shot or a non-perferred shot and that is where the fixed heads stand out. Machanicals do use alot more energy in the opening process and can hinder the max trauma needed in lets say a quatering away shot or a accidental forward shot to the edge of the shoulder blade. Now I know that there are alot of you out there that will say that deer are lost everyday with fixed heads but I would dare bet the farm that if you look at it on a percentage you would find that with all variables being equal that more deer are lost due to machanicals not penetrating, not opening or deflection due to a sharp angle the those same shots with a fixed head. If you are a very experianced archer with alot of kills under your belt and/or can be very picky in choosing your shots and dont have time to doodle with your bow in getting fixed heads to fly then Id say in that case you might have great results with machanicals. But for me Ill stick to my Muzzy 100gr. 4 blades or Montecs. I have no trouble getting my heads to fly just like my field points out to 40 yards. If you take the time to get your bow tuned and paper tuned you shouldnt have any trouble either.

[ 10-11-2003, 02:06: Message edited by: chuckduster ]

I had used Bear broadheads for years but got away from archery for a few years. I always had pass throughs with the old bears and may end up with something similar after "this" season.The trackers were recommended to me by a very experienced hunter at my gun club.Thanks for the input.

Rob
My dad had that same problem with that same brodhead last year. I'm sticking with my Muzzys. Wasp makes a good brodhead to.

I have had great results from mechanicals but all it took was 1 bad experiance from a angled shot and I will never screw another one on. The only reason that I used them in the first place was to try them out to see how they performed as I have never had a problem with getting Muzzy's or steelforce broadheads to fly great.
I figure that if your bow will shoot fixed blade heads good there is no reason to use mechanical.

dva01, Totally agree! Mechanicals are like training wheels. As bowhunters we owe to the game to use the most effective means necessary to finish the job in the least amount of time. Also we need an advanced knowledge of our equiptment and how to tune it so to be as effective as possible. Just my .02 cent worth. Take it or leave it!!!

Unfortunately, the average bowhunter doesn't always have the time, never mind the knowledge, to adequately tune for perfect broadhead flight.
Like many others, I live in a suburban community. It is unlawful and dangerous to shoot in your yard, at least where I live. NONE of the archery ranges, indoor or outdoor, allow the use of broadheads. This severely limits the amount of time anyone has to either tune or shoot extensively with conventional fixed blade broadheads. Most guys do 99% of their practice with field points.
Mechanical broadheads have taken the industry by storm. Not only does every broadhead manufacturer make them but most make MANY different versions.
From a practical standpoint, the mechanicals are easier to work with and will continue to be very popular.
Archers who take this sport more seriously and who have the time, energy and knowledge to perfect arrow flight seem to prefer the time tested and proven fixed blade broadheads.
As for me, I've switched back and forth as new products become available. Just currently set up some arrows with the Montecs and they seem to fly beautiful, despite the fact that I only used arrows with 4" straight fletched feathers.
VH

[ 10-12-2003, 05:02: Message edited by: Varmint Hunter ]

Varmint Hunter, Im not trying to argue with you but not ALL makers of broadheads make mechanicals. Companies like G4, Muzzy and a few others will probly never develop a mechanical head. You need to ask the sales people behind the counter if they have a target set aside for use with hunting heads and most of them do or if you explain you situation to them they will be happy to help you out in finding an area to shoot broadheads. All I am saying is that I believe and so do others, including some of the reps for companies that you can run into a higher failure rate with mechanicals than you can with a fixed head and I feel that personally I have the obligation to any animal I hunt to offer the quickest most humane kill I can. That is just my opinion. Anyway have a great season!

Guys, I have to jump in here. I have tested every broadhead you list here and hundreds more. ALL have killed deer. But this is where it begins, not where it ends and my arrows end up 10" in the ground after passing through a deer. This is where I separate the good from the bad. Satelite Titans in my opinion are junk. I rolled up the tips on all I shot and when I took needle nose pliers and unrolled the points like opening a tin can, they went in the junk box for small game. No good for heavy bone at all. Ihe Muzzy worked just great on deer but I broke every one in the ground. Can't afford to replace them after every shot. I never broke a New Archery Products head, even the mechanicals. I never broke a Cabelas head. I have good luck with Snuffer heads, sometimes they bend but it doesn't effect the killing power. I have shot through a shoulder blade, spine and cut the ball joint in half in the opposite leg without ruining this head. I have never broken a Rocky Mountain head. It is a question of economics for me. I want to either re-sharpen or replace blades, not buy new ones with every deer.
I have over 200 bow kills since I picked up my first recurve many-many years ago and broadheads came and went like they grew on trees. Fortunatly there are so many improvements and so many real good ones now it is not hard to get a good one. But if they break or wind up, they go in the junk box.

I forgot to mention that if you know how to tune a bow, ANY broadhead will fly straight to as far as your bow will shoot an arrow, 250 to 300 yds. Of course if you are shooting toothpicks or short arrows from an overdraw, have fun.

I have used Steelforce and the new Razorbak with excellent results. Had a friend loose two bears with Muzzy both good hits just poor heads.

[ 10-27-2003, 03:56: Message edited by: Alaska Bush Man ]

I have shot deer with all of these and they worked fine. Steelforce,ThunderHeads and Muzzys. I cant see how every Muzzy a guys shoots breaks(mentioned above) becouse I have shot 1 buck and 1 doe and 1 missed shot at a buck so far this year with the same muzzy I shot a buck with last year and just changed blades. Even used the same shaft and fletching. I just wash the feather with soapy warm water and blow dry it with my wifes blow dryer. Im trying to see how many times I can use the same arrow and head. I do admit that you sometimes need to change the tip on Muzzys also due to debris in the ground bending the tip over slightly.

I am a Muzzy user for everything! I shoot the 130 grain 4 blade and the only ones I have broken, broke as I tried to get them out of a tree after a missed shot.
When testing these I shot one through a new 3/4 inch pice of plywood at 15 yards and ithe blades were dull but no damage to the head.

bfrshooter, Question for you - Which model/s of muzzys have you used that broke going into the ground?

Pro's and con's... one persons idea of the "best" product is influenced by many things. Hopefully these are factual exposures to hunting situations and not based only on what they read or have been told. I do agree that having a properly tuned bow with matched equipment is paramount. Arrowhead selection is only part of what we need to employ. A good deal of archers do not understand how to tune or maintain their equipment. Adding a poorly constructed broadhead to unbalanced equipment makes matters worse.

Remember, shot placement can make any good product look bad. Taking marginal shots is poor judgement and unethical. Shooting the "best" head in the world, whatever that may be, will never make up for this. My suggestion depending on your situation, (where you live, your mechanical ability, etc), is to pick a respected broadhead company that you can consistently group at hunting ranges. If you think, well, I have a 50-50 chance of a harvest on this shot, regardless if due to range or angle, simply don't take the shot. You owe the animal more than that. 100% more.

Like most archers who hunt deer sized game, I've used both fixed and mechanicals. My choice for fixed blade heads would be Muzzy. Sure, there are other excellent cut on impact / cut from the point heads out there. I however find the time proven Muzzy easier to tune for the landslide of cam configurations I've shot. They work and work well. Nuff said.

My choice for mechanical heads would simply be Rocket. No, I won't bother naming "others" that belong in the mechanical junkyard, since all that serves is to start a 3rd grade fued. I do limit the Rocket line however, based soley on cutting diameter. As previously known, a mechanical head uses a portion of the arrows anergy to open. Bigger is not always better. Rockets' 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 offerings are superb for deer, often opting for the smaller. Why just Rocket mechanicals then? Because I have not seen any other mechanical that can take the pounding Rockets take.

After praising the little Rockets for two seasons, I came upon an article many of you may have seen. Bow Hunting World magazine published their results in a grueling test of both fixed and mechanical heads. All were fired from a bow vise, through heavy plywood media at close range. What was top dog? Rocket outshined all others, fixed and openers alike in both penetration and durability.

For those who can't, for whatever reason, fly a fixed blade like a laser beam, there are options proven just as effective. What did I harvest this years deer with? A Rocket. Why? It certainly isn't because I don't know how to tune a bow. It's because they work very well. The fact that the same head, (after inspecting a whitetails lungs and sticking smartly in the ground), has harvested multiple deer in a single season doesn't hurt a bit either. Good hunting.

Jollyarcher, Well said! Great post where few are found!

Thanks C.D., I always try to be less abrasive when it comes to archery... after all, it's supposed to be fun and this helps to keep it jolly that way.

They may not be perfect but my thunderheads just keep doing it on deer.

I use Steelforce 100 grain in my Matthews LX for Black Bear. I also had good results from Thunderheads over the years but tend to rely on fixed heads now!

This thread is so timely, it's like it was written for me. I have stuck three deer so far this year with the 100 grain Silvertip. The first deer ran about 30 yards before piling up. No blood trail. The arrow cut through the heart and lodged in the sternum without exiting. If I had been a little high it would have been a long night.

The next was a deer very close to my tree walking away and I apparently creased it.(blood on the arrow but not much)Not the mechanical's fault, but again no blood trail.

Third deer facing away but close. Arrow struck her in the back and as she spun and ran I could see most of the arrow flagging as she disappeared into the thick briars. Arrow fell out after 10 yards with little penetration. Again no blood trail.

I find myself agreeing with Rob1sgt and others about the marginal shot business. I've killed plenty of deer with the silvertips but better results with the broadside shot. I've knocked a doe down hitting her in the shoulder blade without penetration. Would a fixed blade have gotten through? I don't know, probably not, but I am seriously thinking about changing heads .

Russ D, You really need to understand that NO broadhead is made for those kind of shots. A few of those shots mentioned above are very risky and low percentage shots. Broadside and quatering away are the shots to be patient and wait for. Another thing to consider it sounds like you stand may be located too close to the deers travel route for proper shot placement becouse it sounds like your taking high angle shots down towards staright away deer. Shot placement must be somewhat thought out way back when hanging and prepairing stand sites. You want to consider at what point in the encounter you might be offered a shot and allow for it. I like most of my stands to be anywhere from 15 to 20 yards on the downwind side of the prevailing wind. That way you will have most of your shots ata more consistant angle for maximum damage on double lung shots and it will keep you from the sometimes unfatal single lung shot. I also like to set a half dozen or so stands for other types of wind directions. But thats a whole other topic.

[ 11-03-2003, 06:40: Message edited by: chuckduster ]

Varmint hunter, all you say is true regarding heavy arrows and cut on entry, but what you state about any arrow and head combination is not. The mechanical heads take a lot more power and when someone uses a light bow or light arrows they will be disappointed many times.

Russ D, Like other posters have said, that is a very bad shot to take. The problem today is the new breed of archer that shoots 3D targets with light super fast arrows and thinks this is just the ticket for deer---WRONG! The answer has never changed. What is needed is a fairly strong bow from 60 to 80# and the heaviest arrow that the bow will shoot. 2219, 2317, 2419's for penetration. Heavy broadheads from 125 grs. and up add to the penetration. If you are shooting toothpicks at 300+ fps be prepared to watch an arrow STOP very quickly. I will admit that a broadside shot with a 30# bow would most likely kill a deer, but deer are live animals that do not stand still when you shoot at them and there are also those invisible little twigs that come from nowhere. So the conclusion is that there are few picture perfect shots in archery so prepare for the worst and use the proper hunting equipment, not target stuff.

Amosgreg, I was using 130's. I neglected to mention I was driving 2419 arrows through deer with an 82# Browning Mirage. The points would strip the threads and drive the point back into the blades, actually cutting the steel tips. Since I ran out of them I have been using Thunderheads and have yet to break one. They hardly get dull and a little touch up brings them back to razor sharp. I even shot one down at an Osage orange apple three times for practice without damage.

Varmint Hunter, E-mail me and I will send you the proper way to tune a broadhead. All you need is 20 yds. and a tight straw or hay bale or two.

bfrshooter,
Do you have any of those heads left? They might be interesting to send to Muzzy and see what their R&D department has to say

Makes sense since the Thunder heads are steel bodys and Muzzys aircraft aluminum.

[ 11-04-2003, 14:39: Message edited by: amosgreg ]

Thunderheads are also made of alumium not steel. Atleast my Thunderhead 100s are. If they were made of steel they would be well over 200 grain heads.

Chuckduster and bfrshooter: Thanks for the responses. You are correct in that,upon reflection, my stands are too close and too high thus making the bad shot choices more likely.I'll rethink my spots.

By the way I chrono'ed my setup at 246 fps with a 400 grain arrow/ broadhead .

My broadheads - Simmons 190gr. Easy to sharpen and stays razor sharp. Hickory shafts, shot form my #70 longbow and my #90 english warbow.

Cuts on contact and leaves a large exit hole. Looks like they were hit with a meat cleaver.

I don't know of anyone that sells these anymore or it they are even available. (to bad, they work great).

2" Wide


2.5" Long


[ 11-04-2003, 19:39: Message edited by: JLK ]

Russ D, my arrows weigh 650 grs. and are going 238 fps. Not a bone in a deer that will stop it. The deer that I shot in the shoulder and cut the spine in two and also the ball joint in the opposite leg was actually knocked off her feet sideways. The arrow was past the vanes and it stuck in the ground when she was knocked over and she slid down the shaft. On all other shots, I don't see the arrow and never know where it hit until I get to the deer. I keep thinking of the recurve days when arrow flight was like slow motion. My first bowkill was like that and the arrow was still going in while the deer was running away.

BFRshooter: I just ran your numbers in the Kinetic calculator and you're kicking out 81.78 ft/lbs. With my setup 246/400 I'm getting 53.76 ft/lbs. Quite a difference!

Russ,
The numbers you ran should give everyone a good understanding about the weight vs speed issue.
Your set up is only 8 fps faster but 250 grains lighter and only generates 65% of the KE.

Now to me 400 grains is not an extremly light shaft it is on the lighter side and 650 is a bit on ther heavy side but the numbers speak very clearly.

Thanks for running them.

Here is the link to a Kinetic Energy calculator. Some of you may not have it and might find it useful. http://thunder.prohosting.com/~mfoster/archery/KeneticEnergyCalculator/KeneticEnergyCalculator.html

Russ

Russ D, I figured 82# with just the math a long time ago. That is VERY close figuring! I shot an 8 point last week and have been looking for a doe. Another darn 8 point was under me from 6 yds. to no more then 20 yds. this morning for an hour. I almost resorted to throwing something at him to make him go away because my ass was sore as hell sitting still so long. He just stood around scanning for does, well, I can't find them either. It's too hot this week.
I have over 200 bow kills and have used all bows from a 45# Red Wing Hunter, 62# Wing Presentation II takedown, Jennings compounds, PSE"s to my 3 Browning bows. I even have 4 crossbow kills in Ohio. This is where I seen what happens to a light arrow. I shot at the largest buck I ever hunted, from a measured 32 yds. He was quartered from me and I shot for the last ribs. The broadhead hit the last rib and glanced instead of going in the deer. I seen the fletch end of the arrow slap the buck in the ham. As he ran away I could see the whole arrow hanging down his side with just the head under the skin. "0" penetration. This Foxfire crossbow completely penetrated the other 4 deer I killed with it. My 45# Wing would have done the job that this light crossbow bolt failed at.

Those pesky 8 pointers! The things you have to put up with!

Russ D, did you read my other post where I screwed up a shot and still got the spike buck? My bow arm whipped to the left hard and the arrow also went left. Hit the deer in the spine right behind the head. LUCK SHOT! Gave that deer to my neighbor lady because I hunt her property. Now I have to wait for gun season to get some does for my freezer. I use revolvers, no rifles.

bfrshooter,

I did read your post about the spike. I have had some hits like that,too. It's great when it works out.

Can you not continue to hunt with the bow?