Hearing people speak of where they shoot game w/ their bows got me to thinking about some of the shots that my bow hunting compadres and I had made over the years and how some of the worst looking shots brought the game down much quicker than you'd have thought.

Some of the shortest tracking jobs I've done on arrowed deer was when the arrow went through the dead center of them. Usually those shots got liver, diaphram, and guts which, as you know was a great site and smell but, they still didn't make it but just a few yards.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in the good ole' "Double Lung" broad-side shot but, some of these other shots are quite deadly contrary to what one would think.

I guess another thing that just rubs me raw is watching these hunting shows and these idiots shoot game right dead in the shoulders w/ a freaking bow!! What the heck are these guys thinking? They say "Oh, that's a great shot" and the buck is running full throtle w/ 90% of the arrow stickking out the entrance side . I've shot 4 deer in the shoulder on accident and all four of them lived and when I found my arrows they had only went in about 3" or so and that was arrows out of some pretty fast bows. They were flub ups on my part I admit but, I try not to do it, I'd rather shoot them through the diaphram than in the shoulder. It's not a rifle!

Reloader

i wouldnt put the shoulder shot completely out..

first of all 99 percent of the people on those hunting shows arnt pulling any more than 60 pounds and they are all using untra light arrows for max speed..

iv shot close over 40 deer with a bow and more than half shoulder to high shoulder shots but my set up is as follows.

hoyt hyper tec custom 95#
carbon arrows with 3 grain per in full inserts toatle arrow weigth with 145 grain chisle point head 625 grains. with this set up i can easy shoot through a cape buffalo and is heavery than what most people use for that job. this is my every bow i have no smaller bows.

Nitro is right! I have shot through the shoulder, the spine and cut the ball joint in the opposite leg in half with the arrow buried far enough that most of the vanes were inside the deer. The impact knocked the deer off his feet sideways and the deer slid down the shaft. Light arrows do not belong in the field, they are made for 3D shooters that can't judge the range or lousy hunters that want to use one sight out to 40 yd's. I can't count the dead deer I have found with these toothpicks barely stuck in them. Last year I shot 2 deer with my revolvers that had 3" of arrow shaft inside them.
Any shot to the guts does not sit well with me because it stinks and takes a lot of work to butcher the deer. I have shot lengthwise completely through deer and will not do it again. Bow power and ARROW WEIGHT are they keys to success.

I have had mostly double-lung shots, some liver and/or diaphragm. Like you say, they don't make it far if the diaphragm is sliced from side-to-side.

I usually shoot a 540 grain arrow (or close)for deer or elk. I have never had a failure to penetrate from that arrow weight from my 65# Feathermax with any sort of fixed-blade broadhead. I have used Bear, Steelforce and Grizzly two-blade broadheads and Muzzy three-blades. I usually use 125-147 grain heads, but lately have been going heavier. These heads have penetrated the spine, the shoulder blade and then the spine, even in the spine and out the far shoulder blade.

Even with that heavy arrow I had a 125 grain mechanical broadhead fail to penetrate the shoulder blade at 20 yards. The arrow fell out after the buck jumped three times. The "grease-line" from the fat under the hide did not even make it onto the arrow shaft. The arrow had penetrated less than two inches! I should have known better than to use a mechanical, but I listened to an "expert." I'll stay with the old-fashioned fixed-blade heads, thank you very much.

My brother shot a cow elk in the ass with a Bear two-blade head on a 2219 Easton arrow.(I never found out exactly how that came about.) The arrow penetrated out of sight. The cow made it about 40 yards uphill. It turned out the arrow head was in her liver, and every time she jumped it sliced about wildly in there. Dan said the liver was shredded from the action.

My longest tracking job was after what looked to be a perfect double-lung on a doe using a 3-blade Muzzy. Somehow the blades missed all the big arteries and the fat sealed up the chest cavity. (These Ohio deer are FAT!) That doe made over a mile of meandering trail. I tracked her by the few drops of blood from the entry and exit wounds. It was 18 hours after the shot before I found her. She was still warm with no rigour mortis, so I think she'd died in her sleep in her second bed about 15 hrs after the shot.

I have a friend who is a part-time taxidermist. He has a lot of tales to tell about healed arrow wounds. He has found 5 or 6 100 grain mechanical broadheads stuck in the spine of deer killed after the original wounds have healed over. Apparently a whole lot of the croosbow shooters wound deer from directly above. A two-blade broadhead (and probably even a Muzzy) would have resulted in a clean kill.

i use 4 blade dangerouse game muzzeys on my arrows for 625 grains toalte

Thank you Don, for speaking the truth. We have a lot of EXPERTS here with one or two deer kills. They want every one to believe what they say is gospel. It's amazing how a few deer kills can turn someone into the greatest hunter!
I killed three deer my first year bowhunting when the average time for an archer to kill a deer was 15 years. (That was a LONG time ago.)

okay all, I'm on the other side of the street. I do shoot more 3-D than most but it keeps me sharp for hunting. I have been bowhunting for nearly 20 years and have killed several deer. If I were to guess I would say an average of at least 1 per year. I shoot a 310 grain arrow with 75 grain 3 blade muzzys. I draw 62 lbs and my arrow is moving at 321 fps. most of the deer that I kill fall down within 50 yds. I have never failed to have a complete pass thru on a deer including one that I shot while I was walking in at 11 yds. he was facing me dead on and I hit him just at the top of the brisket and came out between the hams. the only animal that I have failed to get a pass thru on was a hog that I shot down on thru the top of the skull and into the chest, but I was not using muzzy then and I was shooting a slower bow. I too have gone thru shoulders with no problem. I believe that the main thing is having a bow that is well tuned and pushing the arrow as strait as possible and shot placement. heavyweight arrow are nice but so is speed. JMO.

I've had one arrow stop in the shoulder a long time ago. It was a 2117 with a 125 Gr. Not enough draw weight. Since then I've had all complete pass throughs except 2. One was a Springbok spine shot, didn't penetrate the spine but the Spingbok died on the spot. Another was a Kudu quartering away, the arrow entered behind the last rib, and had about 24" penetration. The Kudu was recovered maybe 100 yds. away with no blood trail. The arrow had turned around in him when found, and he was a mess inside. Both of these were arrows around 525 gr. with 62# bow.

Guys, Please tell me you are not advocating Shoulder shots w/ a bow!!!

That is one of the absolute WORST shots you can place on a deer w/ a bow.

I know guys that have had arrows stop on shoulder points w/ Muzzys and other 3 blade fixed heads as well. I've personally shot 4 deer in the shoulder w/ my bow that I didn't get and I'm not afraid to admit it, it was very poor shot placement on my part. Two of those were dead on broad side shots were the arrow struck the point of the shoulder and stopped on the surface, the other two were quartering shots where the arrow deflected off of the shoulderand didn't make into the vitals. Now that was what I "think" happened, I know where the arrow struck but, since I didn't recover the animals, I can't say for sure what happened. I did however recover a buck (Killed him later w/ rifle) I shot in the shoulder Broad-sided w/ a heavy aluminum arrow (2315) and he had a little wound on his shoulder point but, was in healthy condition other wise.

Matter of fact, just last week I had a buddy that just started bow hunting tell me he shot a doe at 20 yards and she ran off w/ most of the arrow sticking out of her shoulder and that was w/ a new fixed 3 blade head(125 grn), he said it looked like it didn't go in hardly any, just stopped close to the surface. I told him he hit the shoulder and to not aim that far foward any more. Saturday he piled up a 5pt w/ the ole' ribs diaphram quartering shot.

Regardless if you think you've got the badest arrows on the planet w/ the best broadheads, I don't think we as bow hunters should advise folks to shoot deer in the shoulders, it's a low percentage shot and can stop some of the best equipment out there.

On the expandable note, Don't kid yourself about them not penetrating but, You've got to use a good one. I shot a doe a week and 1/2 ago and hit her through the head, through the dead center of her spine, and through the lungs w/ a 100 grain NAP Shockwave expandable on a light carbon arrow traveling at alittle over 290 fps. I know you either love em' or hate em' just like Nolser Ballistic Tips. The last 15 or so I've shot w/ the exps has not made it far at all some just mere feet. Most of the time my arrows go straight thru and bury in the dirt and you talk about blood, you should see the blood trail left from a 1-1/4"-1-3/4" 3 blade hole. I don't have anything against fixed blades but, their inconsistency when used on carbon arrows. W/ aluminum you can tune them quite easily and get ok flight but w/ carbon it's hard to tune the heads especially if you get some one-one at a proshop to build your arrows and they just epoxy the inserts in, several of those will be slightly out of tune. Even w/ straight inserts and a paper tuned bow I've had planing problems w/ fixed heads.

Reloader

Reloader, that is the LAST thing I would advise. I never shoot for the shoulder but once in a while something goes wrong, shoulder out of line, the deer moves or nicking a twig that went unseen. This is where the strong bow with a heavy, fast arrow will still kill the deer. The shoulder is the worst place to hit a deer. An arrow that will cut leg bones or the spine in half might not make it through the shoulder.
Several season ago I shot at a buck and I was surprised to see my arrow turn sideways before it hit the deer. The arrow broke off right at the base of the broadhead when it hit but I cut the spine in half and dropped the deer. The weight of the arrow is what counted. When I got home, I discovered that the cable guide had vanished. This caused the cables to hit the arrow on release and fling it sideways. It then whipped the other way before reaching the deer. I also hit way higher due to the arrow going nuts. The Browning has a guide that holds the cables on the inside of the rod, not over the other side. I replaced it with the new one made of metal with plastic rollers.

No, I try to take only good broadside shots.

The deer have other plans, though, and when they "jump the string" is when you get shoulder or spine shots instead of ribs in and out.

It happens enough that I personally feel like I have to use a heavy arrow with a fixed-blade broadhead.

I guess speed and a quiet bow prevent the string jumping. I have never had a deer jump the string. the only shoulders that I have shot were on the off side when the arrow is coming out. I have shot through the shoulders of a few pigs but the vitals are a little forward when compared to a deer.

Don and Bfr, I agree w/ what you say. The big heavies are definitely the deep penetrators.

I guess the main reason I use the pretty light 300s is for the trajectory and speed. They give me pass thrus on these smallish whitetails around here most of the time unless the spine or shoulder is hit but, like you said most of the time when that happens it's unexpected.

I've got a good set of Beemans that are heavier just incase I decide to go for a hog or maybe one day and ELk if I'm lucky.

Good Day

Reloader

I don't do a great deal of bowhunting but personally I don't get upset seeing an arrow dissappear into a deer/pigs' shoulder.

I shoot a 70lb Hoyt Deviator, XX78 Super Slam 2317's and I forget what broadhead. I like 3 blade designs, but not too large and a tri cut point. Tri cut does penetrate a LOT more effeciently.

I've had arrows go into pigs facing on, and exit out a ham with this setup...