I have a Matthews Feathermax and performing the paper tune in my backyard I have consistently had the fletching marked left of the penetration. I tried adjusting the rest, that didn't work, so I adjusted it back. I released tension on the arms, that didn't work either. I tightened the tension, that didn't work. I'm at a complete loss, can someone steer me in the right direction here?

I know my arrows are the correct length for my bow so I don't know what the problem is.

Can you give me some specifics of your setup? Specificaly poundage, arrow length, arrow size and point weight?

I've never owned a bow that once tuned properly, shot bulletholes in paper.

An Arrow with a fieldpoint and another with a broadhead at 40yds hitting very close together equals a tuned bow. Paper isn't important at that point.

Your spine is wrong or your rest needs to be moved.

Did you try the paper at different distances?

Try at 5 feet and 10 feet.

There are some bows that will not paper tune, but most will if the proper arrows and the proper placement of the nock-point & rest are used.

There are some helpful websites on the web for tuning tips. Just go to Yahoo and search for tuning a bow and you'll get some helpful resources.

Good Luck

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by marshmandan:
Can you give me some specifics of your setup? Specificaly poundage, arrow length, arrow size and point weight?

My Matthews Feathermax is a 65lb draw with a 29" draw length. I am 6-1 190 lbs. I shoot with PSE carbon arrows with 100 grain tips and at the time of this writing do not know my exact arrow length because I'm at the office. HOWEVER, my arrow length was predetermined for me on two separate occassions by a professional bow shop and so I know that my arrow length is correct for me according to these two different sources. I have a D-loop nock that is at the correct location according to everything I know. I also shoot with a release.

I do have a Whisker Biscuit Rest and a friend of mine who is no professional tends to think its the Whisker Biscuit itself that pulls the arrow out of a straight flight.

I asked the question the other day to the bow "specialist" at our local Bass Pro Shops, and he tended to think it might have something to do with the spine. How is that corrected or adjusted?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The only way to alter spine is to shoot a heavier(stiffer) arrow or drop poundage.

Are you shooting the PSE 300s? If so, those are some pretty stiff arrows, so I doubt it's a spine issue.

I've had one bow that absolutely would not tune with a WB rest. I just about pulled my hair out with that one, switched to a drop away and started shooting bullet holes.

My current Mathews LX shoots bullet holes with a WB rest and most bows seem to do fine with that rest, but there are those that will not.

I have a drop away that's nearly new at the house if you want to give it a try before you buy one.

Reloader

Spine could be the problem but don't get stuck on paper tuning.

The easiest way to change spine is change tip weight.
A lighter tip will stiffen the arrow spine and a heavier tip will weaken the arrow spine.

As "Reloader" stated try at different distances.
It may not change a thing with paper though.
The thing to remember is the arrow may be in recovery and heading the other direction at a given distance.

How do field points group at 40yards?
How do broadheads compare?
As "ncboman" stated, when you match the broadhead to the feild point, the bow is pretty much tuned!


PS Make sure your "Wisker Bisquit" is square in all directions. Also I have heard that you want a larger hole that arrow diameter!

Reloader I do shoot the PSE Carbon Pro 300 series shafts. So it sounds like it isn't the spine based on what you are telling me.

Smedley, I;ve had my Feathermax for about 10 years. It was always deadly accurate when I first got it. Anyway, I haven't really shot much with it over the last two years and then I decided that I was going to put more effort into my bow hunting again. So when I started shooting again I noticed that I was having some pretty bad inconsistencies with my field tips and my broadheads. So that's when I did the paper test and wala: my vains are passing through the paper to the left of the point.

I have not tried shooting through the paper at a distance greater than 10 feet. But between 5 and 10 its pretty much the same.

My other question is if I need to adjust my limb tension which one do I start out with first and which direction? I was told that I need to start with the top limb and reduce the tension (lessening the weight), but that did not seem to produce results.

SkyJacker,

Do I understand that this bow has been sitting tucked away for a couple of years with nothing being done to it???? Or has it come out to play once in a while? If it has been resting I would HIGHLY recommend getting the strings and cables looked at!!!!

As far as adjusting limbs, you have to keep them as even as you can. If you back the top out, from snug with the riser, 7/8 of a turn you need to do the same with the bottom limb.

smedley, I left out some information that you could probably use.

Yes, I typically pull my bow out every year at least a few days or so to shoot it but really never got to hunt with it in that time period. This year, I had a few weekends available to bow hunt, so I started practicing.

I pulled the bow out and took it to the bow shop to see if my cable and strings were still good. One of the staff members who I trust, took the cable and string off, inspected them carefully, put them back on and said that they are fine and they would probably last in the very least through the next year.

At that time, I decided to upgrade my bow with new sights, new stabilizer, and the new rest which I bought the Whisker Biscuit for Carbon arrows. I installed all of these myself as over the years I have made similar upgrades with no problems.

So I'm off and practicing in my backyard and I started sighting in my bow. I would notice that every 4th arrow or so would fly a little different. Now take out the shots which I knew "Felt bad" and I still had some inconcsistency. This was at 20 yards and some of my broadheads were a good 5" off in some shots which I felt were true shots.

So then I marked the arrows to make sure it wasn't a particular one. It wasn't. I changed the heads out to just in case it was a head, it didn't seem to be a head.

So I'm scratching my head a few weeks ago and I read Reloader's post in another topic about "Broadheads that fly like Field points". Reloader was talking about paper tuning a bow, which I had never done in my life. So, of course I google the subject and started educating myself with as much knowledge before I started the paper test.

Anyway, i get set up in the back yard finally and everything between 5 and 10 feet has the vains entering slightly left (about 3/4 to 7/8 of an inch) from the point. The first thing I did was adjust the rest, but it didn't work. In fact at one point I realized, "Holy Cow, my rest is so far off center", I knew it could not be the rest alignment. So then I played with tension of the bow and reduced it, but no suck luck there.

So I discuss this with a friend of mine who is an avid bow hunter, but like me knows very little about the actual mechanics of the bow. He said he thought it was the Whisker Biscuit rest. I shoot with actual feathered vains and he thought that the rest had to be pulling the shaft out of center.

I'm considering going back to my old rest (which I don't really care for) and seeing if I have a problem.

I do want to thank everyone who has replied to me in this thread for taking the time to help me out. You guys are what makes this forum such a great one.

Arrow tears to the left are caused by too weak of an arrow spine. (Right hand shooter.) Adjusting the rest will not effect it enough to get it straight. Put the rest on center and leave it there. The bow is too strong or too fast for the arrow and there is no way out of it except a stiffer arrow or to turn down the bow.
With the proper arrow there is almost no recovery as there is no archer's paradox with a release. The wrong arrow will bend from point and arrow inertia. There will be no swing back to straight that occurs with real paradox from an arrow that is spined correctly. Forget the 300 fps stuff for hunting, get the proper arrows.
A slow bow with a given arrow needs more poundage and a fast bow needs less with the same arrow. There is no magic yet that will make a strong, fast bow shoot weak spined arrows. There is a trade off in everything. I have three bows and if I shoot the same arrow, all three bows need a different weight setting.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Arrow tears to the left are caused by too weak of an arrow spine. (Right hand shooter.) Adjusting the rest will not effect it enough to get it straight. Put the rest on center and leave it there. The bow is too strong or too fast for the arrow and there is no way out of it except a stiffer arrow or to turn down the bow.
With the proper arrow there is almost no recovery as there is no archer's paradox with a release. The wrong arrow will bend from point and arrow inertia. There will be no swing back to straight that occurs with real paradox from an arrow that is spined correctly. Forget the 300 fps stuff for hunting, get the proper arrows.
A slow bow with a given arrow needs more poundage and a fast bow needs less with the same arrow. There is no magic yet that will make a strong, fast bow shoot weak spined arrows. There is a trade off in everything. I have three bows and if I shoot the same arrow, all three bows need a different weight setting.

BFR, I shoot with the PSE Carbon Pro 300's, and according to Reloader, that's about as stiff an arrow on the market.

Doesn't help me as I don't know the bow speed, weight of the bow or spine of the arrow. It is hard to find stiff carbon arrows. Then again, too stiff of an arrow will also cause trouble. There is no easy way out, the spine MUST be close to what your bow is needing to be in the adjustment range. You can have an arrow that is so stiff, the bow can't be turned up high enough for too.
Normally it is too weak of a spine that causes the most trouble but don't overlook the other direction either. You can test it by putting a heavier head on the arrow to see what happens. Never be afraid to drastically change something. Keep us posted.

quote:

Originally posted by SkyJacker:
My Matthews Feathermax is a 65lb draw with a 29" draw length. I am 6-1 190 lbs. I shoot with PSE carbon arrows with 100 grain tips and at the time of this writing do not know my exact arrow length because I'm at the office. HOWEVER, my arrow length was predetermined for me on two separate occassions by a professional bow shop and so I know that my arrow length is correct for me according to these two different sources. ....

The spine could be wrong because when you cut an arrow, you change it's dynamic spine. You need to look at the PSE chart for your arrows. Compare what the chart says is the correct arrow for your bow draw weight, tip weight and arrow length.

quote:

I do have a Whisker Biscuit Rest and a friend of mine who is no professional tends to think its the Whisker Biscuit itself that pulls the arrow out of a straight flight.

I had that experience with a WB. I learned that the WB can pull an arrow because of the fact that the arrow is in constant contact during it's launch. If you shoot a bow with a stabilizer, your POI will be higher than if you shoot the same set-up with the stabilizer removed. There are videos on youtube that demonstrate this fact with high speed filming.

quote:

I asked the question the other day to the bow "specialist" at our local Bass Pro Shops, and he tended to think it might have something to do with the spine. How is that corrected or adjusted?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Shortening your arrow increases spine. That is why it is important to read the chart.

Go to Easton's site and read about arrows, spine and tuning. Or google it for many pages on this topic.

I would do a simple paper test.
First shoot at a target at 3 yards.
Adjust your pins for the target.
Next shoot at 9 yards.
If the group is not centered with the bullseye, adjust your rest to center the shot, not the pins. (don't worry about elevation, just left and right alignment.)
Go back to 3 yards and shoot.
Now adjust the pins again.
Go back to 9 yards, adjust the rest.

Continue until all shots are centered with the bullseye at both distances.
Now your rest is properly aligned with the string and bow.
Your sights windage is now also properly adjusted as well.
Now you eliminated the 2 most common problems.

quote:

BFR, I shoot with the PSE Carbon Pro 300's, and according to Reloader, that's about as stiff an arrow on the market.

I said they were stiff but not the stiffest on the market by any means. The PSE 400s are much stiffer as are the GT 75/95s amoung many others. The PSE 300s are stiff shafts and with only a 100 grain head from a Mathews Feathermax, you should in no way be underspined. I can shoot those arrows out of a much faster bow (and have) without any ill effects.

Your bow is out of tune plain and simple.

There are many different things that make a bow out of tune, the most common being the wrong rest alignment and wrong nock point placement.

Try setting the center shot and set the nock 1/8" over square for starters. My current Mathews is way left of center shot and alittle above square for bullet hole tune and same impact with broad heads.

Just because one bow tunes one way doesn't mean the next bow will as well.

I really don't think your spine is wrong, but if you want to waste money on more arrows, go ahead. I'd suggest GT 75/95 if you want a stiffer arrow. You may want to have a pro shop paper tune your set-up before you try new arrows.

And lastly, it could be the WB rest. Some (Very few) will not tune with the WB rest. I had a Bowtech that wouldn't noway nohow, switched the rest and back to bullet holes even at the exact placement.

Good Luck

Reloader

I would say Reloader has the answer about the rest. I never used a WB, don't like the idea. I went through a lot of posts and found more comlaints then good remarks. That might be the best place to start, try a different rest.

I'm with BFR on that one.

Why don't you try your old rest and just see if it tunes with it. If it's still tearing left with your old rest, the best thing is going to be to visit an archery shop. Many shops will let you try a few different arrows and possibly they have some stiffer arrows you could try.


Good Luck,

Reloader

Well, I just wanted to follow up with my efforts for everyone's knowledge. I put my old rest back on and instantly saw results. I don't particularly like the rest, so I went down to our local Bass Pro Shops and bought the Ripcord fall away rest. After installing that I ran through the paper test. Same problem was occuring, so I made my adjustments, and BAM! I'm shooting straight again. Funny thing I noticed is that at 5 feet the paper test has the vain entering slightly left of the tip. At ten and 15 feet its dead on. SO I concluded that the arrow is pulling itself back into position from its initial 5 foot of flight.

Anyway, I have yet to start with my broadheads, as I took a break from shooting to come in here and make this post, but from all accounts it definitely seems to be the Whisker Biscuit Rest.

SkyJacker It sounds like you are on the right path now, In my opinion you bought the best rest on the market. Now when you go to tune for your broadheads try shooting a few arrows with fieldtips and then a few with broadheads, making slight adjustments with the rest. If you are moving the rest the correct way it will move the Impact of both the fieldtips and the broadheads toward each other. Kept in mind your goal is to get the broadheads to fly correctly If you look at the differance in the aerodynamics of the field tips vs broadheads they are not the same so expecting them to shoot (exactly) the same is unrealistic. They should be close but its the broadhead that you will be hunting with. (great no spell checker now they will know Im an Idiot)