I have had many questions on Tree stand shots.
The #1 question I have had asked is:
I know that arrows are supposed to hit ?high? when shooting at a steep angle, like from a tree stand. Why is this so ?

I found this discussion and hope it helps.

Answer:
When you shoot horizontally at a target 50 yards away, gravity exerts its influence on the arrow for the full 50 yards, and the arrow follows a
trajectory you've come to understand through routine practice. However, when you shoot
either uphill or -- more common in most bowhunting, downhill -- the horizontal distance will be less than the actual distance you are standing from the deer. For example, if you're standing 50 yards from the deer but also 25 yards above him, the actual linear distance to the deer is only roughly 44.5 yards. Thus, if you use
your range finder and get a 50 yard reading and use your 50-yard sight pin, you're arrow
will hit high, possibly going over the deer's back. Instead you need to aim for 44 yards. If you want to get technical, it's all a geometry axiom called the Pythagorean Theorem which states that on any triangle, A squared plus B squared = C
squared, if A is the horizontal distance, B is the linear distance, and C is the longest
distance. In the above example, my range finder told me 50 yards, and I estimated I was 25 yards above the deer. According to the Pythagorean
Theorem, B squared = C squared minus A squared, or 2500 minus 500, or 2000. The square root of 2000 is roughly 44.5, which means the linear distance to the deer -- the distance I need to aim for -- is 44.5 yards..

Back to the stove
Turtle

BB,I always shoot a little higher than I would from the ground because of the angle the arrow is traveling at,I dont know much about the gravity effect on a arrow but I do know that there is a sight designed for shooting from a tree stand I think its called a pendulum sight,just another gadget to build confidence in your shooting.

BBTURTLE -

Check the math - (500x500)-(25x25)=2500-625=1875, so square root= 43.3. While certainly there may be circumstances where you might be 75 ft. above the deer, a more realistic height might be 21 ft=7 yds.

Accordingly, at 50 yds, 7 yds up, the math is:
2500-49=2451, with the square root=49.5.

Also, as noted above - when shooting down at an animal you must have a higher entry point to pass through the desired 'center of body' point.

erict
This is for example only.

snowmaker -

I have used the "pendulum sight" also . I would say that shots out to 25 yards they are great . I have had problems over that distance and now am back to a round pin sight.

I will be going out today and shoot from five stands. The are from 12 feet to 40 feet and I'll shoot the "pendulum sight" to see how it works over many ranges.

Stay tuned

Back to the Grill
Turtle

Well I'm back and sweating and fully tested .
I used a Keller and a Savage Systems Pendulum. They work about the same. Once you have them sighted in ( 20 yards on ground ) they work out to about 30 yards. This didn't seem to be effected by how high I was ( Figuratively speaking ) . I also used the pin sights for a comparison and would say that if you know your distance these are better hands down. I said "know your distance".
This is by far the reason most bow shots are missed. I mark a circle around my stand at 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 yards. I have missed deer at 10 yards because of the nature of the sport .. If you shoot an area enough you tend to know the distance but if you take a hunter that in not familiar with the stand you need good marked areas and lanes. This is the time of year I start to mark distance and shoot those marks to make sure it is possible.

The Stove calls
Turtle

BB-

We definitely agree on one thing - and you said it - there is no replacement for knowing your distance. (And for treestand hunters, there's almost no excuse, either!).

Not to throw a wet rag on your physics lesson, many people forget to bend at the waste when shooting from a tree stand. That in itself will send you arrow to a higher point on your intended target.

If you would video tape yourself shooting a few dozen arrows from a stand you'd be surpized at what you see.

Boss Kongoni
Nice point and good suggestion. I would however like to point out that some folks can't bend at the waist .......of course I would assume that those same people can't get into a tree stand either . Your idea on filming a session is a great tool and I use it all the time . I not only use it to see shooting position but also to see what shows up from the ground at different locations and distance. This of course has more to do with stand placement than other "stuff".

Back to the stove
Turtle

I'm bending at the waist.

Arrows are afffected by gravity the same as bullets. A trajectory is a trajectory is a ...well you know what I mean.

Riddle me this: The altitude(A) of this RIGHT triangle is 3 units, the base(B) is 5 units. What is the length of the Hypotenuse(C), in same units? Therein lies a key to understanding. If that fails, pull out your Sierra manual or Lyman manual and look in their ballistics section where this issue is addressed.

Ok, here's one for the brain.

Why do the modern cambows not display this trait as much as the older round wheel bows?

Velocity???

DigitalDan I think its 5.83 and thats is why I think shooting form has more to do with missed shots from elevated stands than gravity, especially with modern equipment. Say you are at (an average hight) 16 feet, and your quarry, say a whitetail deer is at 25 yards from the base of your tree. However when you put your digital range finder on him you find out that he is actually 25.56 yards away from your current position. At 50 yards the difference between shooting from the ground versus out of a 16 foot high stand is .85 feet. Now how many of us change our aim points every .56yds at 25 or .85 feet at 50. And if you do not using modern equipment the point of impact difference is not enough to miss the vitals of a deer.

All are great posts guys.
One other thing to remember: The arrow, as well as any bullet fired from a gun, will have the same trajectory shooting 45 degrees up as it would shooting 45 degrees down.
Think of it this way. If you shoot straight up, the arrow travels in a straight line. The only effect gravity has is slowing it down. If you shot straight down it would also have no trajectory. 90 degrees from up, or down, would have the most trajectory, meaning it would drop below the line of site the farther it went, until it hit the ground.
Many shots go hign from tree stands but just as many go high shooting up hill.
Thats a tuff leason learned from a flat lander shooting in the hill country, no matter if it was at a 3D target or an elk or mule deer hunt.

Gravity has nothing to do with slowing down an arrow from a tree stand it would be friction. Gravity would increase velocity shooting down!Otherwise a satilite in orbit would not be there very long! So if you keep your anchor-eye-arrow rest, at the same level, more commonly called bending at the waist, your point if impact is affected so minimally that it doesn't matter.
TEST!
Take an arrow and hold it to your cheek as you would anchor, and rest it in your riser thumb, look at where it touches your thumb. Then lower your riser arm, as you would at an lower game animal, with out moving our head and shoulder. See the difference in your line of sight, and how you run out of shaft? Its the same for your sight pins! Everything changes when you change any part of what you do!!! Shooting form is what matters at "reasonable hieghts" ( If you would say you were shooting 200 feet down at 20 yards that is different but not what this is about! not gravity of friction.

HMMM??? I guess you are saying that if the pole was straight up so there could be no bending there would then be no gravity, so if you let go of your arrow it would not fall and accelerate on the way down. I wonder if leverage has anything to do with the amount of bend???

Numbers do not lie, consider the arrow travel distance from an elevated stand versus the horizontal distance then figure out how much you would change your aim point. Chances are you would not in most bow hunting circumstances.

Hunting conditions, stretching your neck to look around/over/under that branch, changeing the angle of the riser changes your line of sight, any change in your form that changes the relationship between your anchor point-eye-arrow rest, changes your point of impact!!

PS. What is that a picture of?

[ 09-03-2003, 03:02: Message edited by: DickPal ]

This has always been an interesting Question in Archery, and probably the most often answered wrong. If you will note, most of the time, High shot from an elevated stand is the norm for most people experiencing this phenomenon. But not always, some will tell you their shot will impact low. When most shooters ask why their shot placement seems to always impact high or low when shooting from an elevated stand, enviably someone will break the slide rule out, and go into a frenzy of mathematical calculation. Fact is, Gravity's affect is a constant and affects the horizontal, and distance, rate of speed and flight time determine the rate of fall. A strait horizontal Base line of say 30 yards, is 30 yards. If this same base line were measured from say 45 � plus or minus the horizontal base line; the distance would be longer than the horizontal base line. But this line's Base would still be 30 yards measured in the horizontal. Hence an Arrow traveling the Longer Line, parallel to the 30 yard base line would have the same rate of fall for distance, but the kicker is, this Longer Line will also cause the Arrow to have a longer flight time and slower rate of speed depending on it Mass over the 30 yard base line. Another words gravity will have the same affect on the arrows trajectory because of longer flight time and slower rate of speed, as if it is shot from the longer distance Line 45 � plus or minus the horizontal base line. So the shot should always fall short, or in this case low. Whats this got to do with High, low Arrow impact hits from an elevated stand?????? Not much!!!!!!! Because at the distance for Archery this impact phenomenon is almost non-existence, and so slight that you would never know the difference. In most cases, this impact phenomenon is a result of one or two thing, or a combination of both. Change of anchor point, or Short Drawing the bow, or both. This is the reason some say rotate from the hip so you want drop your chin when looking down, changing your form which can change your anchor point and also cause you to short draw the bow. The impact phenomenon can be minimized somewhat with Two cam compound Bows by adjusting the timing for the cams, Mis-timed wheels or cams in it's self can contribute to this High, low impact phenomenon when the bow is short drawn.

[ 09-03-2003, 08:35: Message edited by: ChoPPeR ]

DickPal -
"PS. What is that a picture of?" Its me.
Chapper -
Nice to see you off that political asylum .

Most bowhunters/archers understand arrow flight. The fishing poll is an example that can be taken with the same grain of salt used in all the other entries on the topic. The truth be told that all have some valid points but none are all correct either . It has been said that practice makes perfect. I think practice helps but some folks are to thick to apply experience to the field or range .
Two things are important in stand shooting and they are knowing your ranges and knowing your ability . I have no arms so I can only speak of people I see hunt from stands.

My bowls on a branch
Birman

Birman, Yep I need a brake from that political rat hole. Archery, shooting and hunting has always been my passion, not politics!!!!. Sometimes it's good to get back to your roots. Been thinking about the Bowhunting Forum here on AR for a while. Seems posting in this section has been rather slow, and I know there has to be many Archer's here on AR with Mountains of useful experience and expertise's to share. Hopefully I can contribute, one is never to old to learn, and so may I also absorb.

ChoPPer -

Fact is that allot of the boys are out practicing . I'm positive that as we get closer to October it will pick up. Bow started in Delaware this week . To early for my blood. I think Pa is Oct 4 so soon we will see more and more "helpful" hints .

I await my Bowl
Birman