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Marlins and Savages vs. Winchesters
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Picture of Michael Robinson
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I’ve always preferred Marlins and Savages to Winchesters, and Native Americans to cowboys.

I have an idea to engrave the Winchester logo on the off-side of my Marlin 1895, except with a Comanche on the horse, and the horse dragging the cowboy at full gallop, with the cowboy’s boot stuck and twisted in the stirrup.

On the off-side of my Savage 99, the cowboy would be prone on the prairie, with his hat askance on his head, with arrows sticking out of him, and with his horse grazing placidly at his feet.

Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee would be engraved in scroll beneath both images.

Question: Would I be infringing a copyright, or would these fall under the satire or fair use exceptions?

Also posted on the Engraving forum.


Mike

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Posts: 11159 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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To each his own.


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Posts: 1876 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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It's your gun fo whatever you want with it. But there never was a Marlin that would compare favorably to a Wincheater.
 
Posts: 88 | Location: PNW | Registered: 07 September 2014Reply With Quote
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The cowboy being dragged would no doubt be scalped, right? Odd post.
 
Posts: 182 | Location: Florida, USA | Registered: 22 January 2012Reply With Quote
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I don't see how it infringes on anyone's copyright since it's a unique creation. If you like it go for it.

Regarding Winchesters and Marlin's, if I had to choose either gun for a long term wilderness stay where dependability and ease of maintenance was important I'd pick a Marlin every time. Wink


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Posts: 2330 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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For your Marlin, you might use the inlay on the employee anniversary gun as a starting point. In your case an Indian instead.

http://www.gunadvisorpro.com/g...ted-employee-edition
 
Posts: 5305 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Now that's BS, I now hate marlins and Savages and Indians!! and frown on AR brother M. Robinson, a yankee carpet bagger!! moon rotflmo

My DNA is cowboys and Winchesters,sir! My advise is if you want an Indian head on your rifle then glue a nickel on it..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
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Filer, Idaho, 83328
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Posts: 37214 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Some facts;
1: Marlin is and always was, a superior design to any model Winchester. except the 95. Stronger, and for those so inclined, scope friendly; of course early on that was not a design consideration. Now, guys like their Winchesters, as do I.
Savage 99s are another thing altogether. Not in the same category as slim saddle rifle by any means, but a great rifle.
2: You can put whatever you want on anything, for your own use. It is only when you start selling them commercially, do you get into trouble. So, go for any logo you want, tattooed on your chest. Or rifle.
 
Posts: 13346 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
My advise is if you want an Indian head on your rifle then glue a nickel on it..


Dang! I wish I had said that- thanks Ray.


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Posts: 1876 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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Come to think of it, the Savage logo was for many years a Native American tribal chief (not sure what tribe) in full war bonnet.


Mike

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Posts: 11159 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Actually, the Horse and Rider logo is a TRADEMARK of the Olin Corporation, as used with strict permission by Winchester. Not sure that any of the Trademark fair use exceptions would fit your intended use. Why not just get a good artist to do up some designs for you? That would be cheaper than trademark litigation. There's got to be someone out there that can design what you want. Engravers, tatoo artists. . . . . . Big Grin
 
Posts: 15955 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I am assuming it is only for yourself and the public will never see it. Same as putting a Disney character on a birthday cake for your kid. Disney won't bash down you door because they won't see it.
 
Posts: 13346 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Disney won't bash down you door because they won't see it.

No, he'll brag to all of us on AR about the beautiful work, posting pics, Eeker and then he'll post pics of it somewhere else on the internet and some legal fool will turn him in to Olin, and Olin's lawyers Eeker will subsequently send him a cease and desist letter Mad and want him to either destroy the gun or turn it in to Olin who will then destroy the gun for him. rotflmo rotflmo rotflmo And all 'cause he hates Cowboys and Winchesters. jumping
 
Posts: 15955 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I doubt you'll be infringing on a trademark if you used a modified version for your own use.
You could also go with a First Nations hunter riding Colt's rampant stallion in a classic Roy Rogers or Lone Ranger pose.


I won't take a sermon longer than 10 minutes.
 
Posts: 13798 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Don’t get me wrong. I am not a hater.

There are some Winchester advertisements that I do like very much.



Mike

An ounce of experience is worth a pound of theory.
 
Posts: 11159 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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tu2 rotflmo
 
Posts: 15955 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Truth in advertising as a perk in the Winchester brand. Wink


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13789 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Big Grin
 
Posts: 15955 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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That ad must date back many years as I have never seen it before.


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Posts: 1876 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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How did my wife get into a Winchester ad?
 
Posts: 3925 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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Do it. Then take the engraved rifles and buy a home in the Indian communities close by the Little Big Horn monument. Dump your Winchesters in the LBH river. The rest of us AR members who raised eyebrows at the original post can take bets on how quick you will move out. Get a bumper sticker that reads Custer was Siouxed and chew some Red Man.
Cal


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Posts: 6600 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
Some facts;
1: Marlin is and always was, a superior design to any model Winchester. except the 95. Stronger, and for those so inclined, scope friendly; of course early on that was not a design consideration. Now, guys like their Winchesters, as do I.
Savage 99s are another thing altogether. Not in the same category as slim saddle rifle by any means, but a great rifle.
2: You can put whatever you want on anything, for your own use. It is only when you start selling them commercially, do you get into trouble. So, go for any logo you want, tattooed on your chest. Or rifle.


If this is the case for strength, why are there no Marlin or Savage rifles in 454 Casull? The 92 on which the Puma is based is a Winchester design...right?


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Posts: 2930 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 15 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
How did my wife get into a Winchester ad?


You well have to ask her but be sure you want the answer.
 
Posts: 16540 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
How did my wife get into a Winchester ad?


She looks quite surprised about it herself!
 
Posts: 138 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 28 April 2020Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
How did my wife get into a Winchester ad?


You well have to ask her but be sure you want the answer.


Would make good Jerry Springer. I did tell her I like the tattoo.
 
Posts: 3925 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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DPCD,
You need to stick with gunsmithing and give up cowboying, the 99F Savage has been a cowboy favorite saddle gun favorite forever, mostly the 99F of the 1950 and the old guys liked and still do the 99EG... rotflmo old Only in Hollywood does the 30-30 remain king of the cowboy, and yes their are still a lot of them around, I have a couple.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37214 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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The only Winchester lever action rifle I own is a Miroku made Model 1873 in .44-40.

I gave it to Doug Turnbull. He did his magic.

Turned the 24 inch octagonal barrel into a half octagon. Even put a taller front sight on the barrel to make up for the reduced diameter.

He shortened the full length magazine to a button magazine.

Then he re-casehardened and rust blued what needed it, and refinished the stock with that old Winchester red hued walnut oil finish.

It is amazingly beautiful now. A work of art.

I might have him do the same exact thing with a Model 1894 in .30-30.

Maybe I do like Winchesters, just a little.


Mike

An ounce of experience is worth a pound of theory.
 
Posts: 11159 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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tu2 Big Grin
 
Posts: 15955 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Michel,
Keep posting I like you better all the time!! You will learn to love the M-94 carbine in time..its the kind of gun that wears on one..
rotflmo


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37214 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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The Indian on the Savage 99s metal butt Plate is the Savage logo, He is the great Indian chief Sitting Bull.. Even us cowboys liked him, but had no use for Custer.. tu2


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37214 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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CArbina trenta-trenta (30-30)
Que los rebeldes portaban
Y decian los federales
Que con ella no mataban

Con mi trenta-trenta
Me voy a marcer
A engrosar las filas de la rebelion
Si me sangre piden, me sangre les doy
Por los habitants de nuestra nacion

Translation of the Mexican Rebellion song:
30-30 carbine
that the rebel carry
and the Federals troops said
that with it you cannot kill them

With my 30-30
I am going to leave
to join the ranks of the rebellion
if they ask for my blood, my blood I will give them
for the people of out nation..

That gun has been around more years doing the Lords work than any of us can imagine! tu2


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37214 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Thanks for that, Ray. I love that song. Here’s the Los Lobos acoustic version.

Carabina 30-30

I have my eye on an 1899 vintage model 1894 Winchester special order rifle in .30 W.C.F. caliber, with a button magazine, a half octagon 26 inch barrel, and a crescent butt plate.

It’s not a carabina, but it’s a classic rifle.

I decided it would be un-American not to own one.


Mike

An ounce of experience is worth a pound of theory.
 
Posts: 11159 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Now that's BS, I now hate marlins and Savages and Indians!! and frown on AR brother M. Robinson, a yankee carpet bagger!! moon rotflmo

My DNA is cowboys and Winchesters,sir! My advise is if you want an Indian head on your rifle then glue a nickel on it..

i'm sure he meant to say indian ray, as ANYONE born in this country is, by definition, A NATIVE AMERICAN
 
Posts: 1095 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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All in good fun......


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37214 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Here she is. A bit worn, but still sound.



Going off to Doug Turnbull for complete restoration.


Mike

An ounce of experience is worth a pound of theory.
 
Posts: 11159 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Whow, I like it as is!!


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37214 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of Michael Robinson
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Me, too. But this is what Turnbull can do:



100 years old, and it's just as it was when it came off the factory floor!


Mike

An ounce of experience is worth a pound of theory.
 
Posts: 11159 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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MR,
Very pretty TD.
What game have you taken with i?


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Posts: 1876 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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crshelton -

Unfortunately, that take down is not mine. It’s an example of Turnbull’s work on the Model 1894.

Mine is the 1899 production sporting rifle in the photo above it. Not a take down. I just bought that one, and I’m sending it to Turnbull within the next few days. They will work their magic on it and produce a result similar to that achieved with the take down.

They do amazing work. I have a modern, Miroku-made Winchester-branded Model 1873 that they reworked and refinished for me. It’s the only Winchester lever action I owned until now, and it’s a thing of beauty. Rust and nitre bluing, and Turnbull’s fantastic, incomparable color case hardening. They even re-stain the stocks to get that old, reddish Winchester color.

I hope to take my 1894 out after whitetails in the Maine woods, or in Quebec, when I get it back. Maybe I’ll put a Lyman aperture sight on it, just like the exemplar above.

We’ll see. The work takes a year to complete.

With any luck, this plague will have passed and I’ll still be alive and kicking.


Mike

An ounce of experience is worth a pound of theory.
 
Posts: 11159 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Doug Turnbull does some beautiful work (you might need to take out a 2nd mortgage though). BTW, the Savage Indian head that used to be printed on their ammo boxes was the design used on the side of their planes piloted by the Americans in the Lafayette Escadrille in War 1.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13789 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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