I have a Henry 45-70 that does not have a safety, per se.

While sitting in a tree stand, I see two options to safe the rifle.

One, is to keep the hammer down and cock it when I am getting ready to shoot. The problem with this is the noise of cocking the hammer.

Option two, is to cock the hammer, but pull the lever slightly away from the stock. This should disengage the rifle from firing.

What are your recommendations/methods?

Thanks.

BH63

I'm not familiar with the Henry. On my older Marlins you have the half cock hammer notch which is quite positive along with a firing pin safety, wherein if the leaver is dropped about 1/8 inch a
bar drops down, bringing the back portion out of alignment with the front part of the firing pin so if the hammer did fall it would not drive the force to the primer. Later models have that plus the crossbolt safety that is an absolute block for the hammer striking the firing pin. I like that for totally unloading the rifle.

BH63,

You'll need to practice a little but on any hammer gun levers I've had you pull the hammer and the trigger back at the same time. Hold the hammer down and release the trigger. Makes for a soundless cocking.

Mark

No half-cocked hammer position or hammer block safety on the Henry but has a transfer bar safety mechanism.

The manufacturer states the rifle can be safely carried loaded with the hammer in the down position which I would be inclined to follow hoping the click of the hammer being cocked shouldn't spook my quarry. The sound of the hammer being cocked or even the action being racked on my BLR or 1895 hasn't caused any game to flee just prior to being shot.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
BH63,

You'll need to practice a little but on any hammer gun levers I've had you pull the hammer and the trigger back at the same time. Hold the hammer down and release the trigger. Makes for a soundless cocking.

Mark

+1

quote:

You'll need to practice a little but on any hammer gun levers I've had you pull the hammer and the trigger back at the same time. Hold the hammer down and release the trigger. Makes for a soundless cocking.

Plus One more.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

You'll need to practice a little but on any hammer gun levers I've had you pull the hammer and the trigger back at the same time. Hold the hammer down and release the trigger. Makes for a soundless cocking.

Plus One more.

Agreed, practice beforehand recommended.

All these modern lever actions, and users, have me baffled. We have been using the original design since the Volcanic was developed in 1850, without problems.
Why, now, in 2018, is cocking a hammer suddenly a problem?
(I have never had game hear the hammer cock and I have killed deer, bears, bison, with 94s, Marlins, and 76 Winchesters.)

It is just one of those things that some folks wonder about.

I have never really gave it any thought till I looked at the OP.

Some folks are just curious about such concepts.

DPCD said what I was thinking but did not say.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
BH63,

You'll need to practice a little but on any hammer gun levers I've had you pull the hammer and the trigger back at the same time. Hold the hammer down and release the trigger. Makes for a soundless cocking.

Mark

^ Yup

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
All these modern lever actions, and users, have me baffled. We have been using the original design since the Volcanic was developed in 1850, without problems.
Why, now, in 2018, is cocking a hammer suddenly a problem?
(I have never had game hear the hammer cock and I have killed deer, bears, bison, with 94s, Marlins, and 76 Winchesters.)

Yup, my thoughts exactly.

I'm wondering what made you think about a safety in the first place, Buffhunter. I have a Miroku Win 86 with the lawyer's safety and I can hardly see any point in that, since it doesn't stop the hammer from falling and I'm not sure it even stops the firing pin touch the primer. The only time I've used it is when testing the free bore and cycling of reloads, but I don't trust it.

I have never had a problem with spooking a deer while cocking the hammer.Pulling the hammer back with your finger pressing on the trigger is an accident waiting to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I'm wondering what made you think about a safety in the first place, Buffhunter. I have a Miroku Win 86 with the lawyer's safety and I can hardly see any point in that, since it doesn't stop the hammer from falling and I'm not sure it even stops the firing pin touch the primer. The only time I've used it is when testing the free bore and cycling of reloads, but I don't trust it.

LOL! What? Take the buttstock off and look at how it works. Then take it to the range and try it. It's pretty obvious it stops the hammer from hitting the firing pin.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
BH63,

You'll need to practice a little but on any hammer gun levers I've had you pull the hammer and the trigger back at the same time. Hold the hammer down and release the trigger. Makes for a soundless cocking.

Mark

Thanks for the tip.

BH63

As to why the question, I haven't hunted with a gun that requires manually cocking a hammer, since I was a kid using an old single shot shotgun.

I've only used bolt actions, pumps, or semi-automatic guns that all had safeties.

First time for hunting big game (bear over bait) with a lever gun and I don't want to blow a chance at a big bear, because of my lack of experience using this type of action.

Seem's like a valid question to ask on a levergun forum.

And the answer I got from Mark (et. al) answered the question perfectly.


BH63

Black Bear hit with a 405gr JSP through the lungs. Range was 110 yards. Not that wary or easily spooked. It stopped and looked back to give the hunter an opportunity to shoot. Still managed to run off into the bush with a gaping hole through its rib cage. Deflated real good. It was done for, just didn't know it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuBcrir0sH8

Well I wouldn't worry about the sound while cocking the hammer. I've shot bears as close as 25 yards that didn't have any response to the sound. Besides if you're sitting in a tree stand over bait they already know you are there.

^
Maybe. But every bear is different. Last year I had a bear spook because of the creak of the stand (I had to lift myself up slightly in order to get the bear in the scope.) The bear had its head stuck in a bucket swilling the bait and had been there for about 5 minutes. As soon as the stand creaked, the bear pulled his head out of the bucket and took off. (I could have got a shot into him, but it was be a little far back, and I didn't want to wound the bear and risk it suffering needlessly.)

I've had bears almost stumble into me while stalking mule deer with bow and arrow, and I've had bears hightail it at 200 yards after getting just a whiff of me.

With most game animals you just never know.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I have never had a problem with spooking a deer while cocking the hammer.Pulling the hammer back with your finger pressing on the trigger is an accident waiting to happen.

Not really, been my motis operandi for about 60 years or so. Never a problem, second nature, works every time.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Matherne:

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I have never had a problem with spooking a deer while cocking the hammer.Pulling the hammer back with your finger pressing on the trigger is an accident waiting to happen.

Not really, been my motis operandi for about 60 years or so. Never a problem, second nature, works every time.

quote:

Originally posted by HawkCreek:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I'm wondering what made you think about a safety in the first place, Buffhunter. I have a Miroku Win 86 with the lawyer's safety and I can hardly see any point in that, since it doesn't stop the hammer from falling and I'm not sure it even stops the firing pin touch the primer. The only time I've used it is when testing the free bore and cycling of reloads, but I don't trust it.

LOL! What? Take the buttstock off and look at how it works. Then take it to the range and try it. It's pretty obvious it stops the hammer from hitting the firing pin.

Hopefully, you're right, but it may not matter because we are going to take the safety off to mount a tang sight.

My reason for questioning it is the first time I used the snap caps, I accidentally left the safety on. looking at the 'primers' straight afterwards, I noticed they had pin-like marks in the centre. These marks have not got worse since with safety-off snapping.

According to Henry, the H010 has a transfer bar that ensures the trigger must be fully depressed before the hammer can fall.

It also has another safety feature (I tried it out this morning), that ensures the lever must be fully closed (it depresses a metal tab) in order to move the trigger.

So, theoretically, a fully cocked hammer cannot strike the firing pin until the trigger is pulled completely back, and the trigger cannot be moved unless the lever is fully closed.

I will practice using both the lever partially opened and cocking the hammer while pressing the trigger to see which one works better.

Perhaps I could borrow a decimal meter and find out which method makes the least amount of noise.

BH63

My hunting from a stand has been with a bolt action. Most times I don't chamber a round until ready to shoot. Gently working the bolt, I've never spooked an animal.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
My hunting from a stand has been with a bolt action. Most times I don't chamber a round until ready to shoot. Gently working the bolt, I've never spooked an animal.

I have always kept a round in the chamber when hunting, whether from a stand or on foot. I am a fanatic about keeping the safety on until I am ready to shoot.

In Zim, we (the PH and me) ran after a large bull elephant, with chambers loaded and guns on safe. That is something I would never do in the USA.

In the military, while in combat zones, we always locked and loaded as soon as we left the firebase.

Having an unloaded chamber in a tree stand while awaiting game, seems overkill (pun intended) from a gun safety point IMO.

BH63

Buffhumter I too am a fanatic about making sure safety is engaged. If I don't chamber a round I can unload it from the bottom. As stated I gently chamber a round and have never spooked game. It's not like stand shots will be at running game where I need to be ready in an instance. Rather be overkill than under kill. Will add I don't carry a round in the chamber on my concealed carry. Would hurt every bit as much if I shot myself as it would if somebody else did.

quote:

I have always kept a round in the chamber when hunting, whether from a stand or on foot. I am a fanatic about keeping the safety on until I am ready to shoot.

To me, that is Standard Operating Procedure, whether it is me or my wife or a client.

I want whoever is doing the shooting to have the gun ready to go and once the sight picture looks the way the shooter wants it, flip the safety off and take the shot.

During the time I have been hunting I have messed up more shots and seen more shots messed up because the shooter took too long thinking about what they were doing.

As soon as the sight picture looks the way you want it, take the shot, reload and get ready to shoot again if the critter is still moving.

Others mileage will vary, but I have seen damn few good wingshots that stop and think about the shot.

The bird flies up, the gun comes up, the gun goes bang and the bird folds up, end of story

I agree with CHC on this. I get criticised at the gun club for calling pull, then slipping the safety as I raise the gun.

I only go there to prepare for the duck season, so intuitive safety release is more important to me than their norms. Though automatic safeties seem to have gone out of style now, I wish I had one - it is worth the moment they take to cement that practised procedure.

On several occasions when I have put a safety off in anticipation of a shot, that action has been forgotten, leaving me pushing at the damned thing, wondering why it wouldn't move

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I'm wondering what made you think about a safety in the first place, Buffhunter. I have a Miroku Win 86 with the lawyer's safety and I can hardly see any point in that, since it doesn't stop the hammer from falling and I'm not sure it even stops the firing pin touch the primer. The only time I've used it is when testing the free bore and cycling of reloads, but I don't trust it.

I have one of those also, and don't really have a clue. My suggestion is take it to the range load it place the safety on, aim downrange and pull the trigger and see what happens. If the firing pin hits the primer you will know it.

I was hoping, JJK, that next time the rifle goes to the range it would have the tang sight installed but, if Marble's don't give over and send the correct bolt to the Australian distributor, I may finish up doing what you suggest.

Cock it and shoot, not enough noise to scare an animal so bad as to spoil the shot..or at least Ive never had to deal with such..I think its a surmised thought your dealing with, but you can hold the trigger back cock it and hold it as you set off on the trigger, that's silent and you can uncock it the same way..

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
^
Maybe. But every bear is different. Last year I had a bear spook because of the creak of the stand (I had to lift myself up slightly in order to get the bear in the scope.) The bear had its head stuck in a bucket swilling the bait and had been there for about 5 minutes. As soon as the stand creaked, the bear pulled his head out of the bucket and took off. (I could have got a shot into him, but it was be a little far back, and I didn't want to wound the bear and risk it suffering needlessly.)

I've had bears almost stumble into me while stalking mule deer with bow and arrow, and I've had bears hightail it at 200 yards after getting just a whiff of me.

With most game animals you just never know.

BH63

My experience as well! The Indians had a saying in regard to wild life that read: IF A LEAF FALLS IN THE WOODS, "THE DEER WILL HEAR IT, THE TURKEY WILL SEE It, AND THE BEAR WILL SMELL IT!"
That being said, I have done a lot of hunting as a teenager with a Mod 94 Winchester and the half cock works just fine for a safety, and I don't detect any sound when cocking with my left hand over the top of the hammer end of the action and my right thumb pulling the hammer to full cock! However I have no experience with the Henry rifle.

…………………………………………………………...

Carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer at half cock, then go to full cock using the pull the trigger, full cock the hammer and let go the trigger method noted above.

That's for traditional Winchesters and Marlins.

For the superior, hammerless and likewise traditional Savages, there's a nifty little safety.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Carry with a round in the chamber and the hammer at half cock, then go to full cock using the pull the trigger, full cock the hammer and let go the trigger method noted above.

That's for traditional Winchesters and Marlins.

For the superior, hammerless and likewise traditional Savages, there's a nifty little safety.

Touché!

Goodness...what a dissertation on something I always assumed was common sense. Guess I'm either stupid or old.

It is as safe as the person handling it.

Just finished the hunt. Knocked a big bear down, but he got up and we lost him in the thick stuff.

Sitting in the stand, I just cocked it and left it ready to shoot.

A buddy had to snapshoot his bear in the head when it started to bolt when he cocked his Marlin.

If on the ground and stalking, I will leave it un cocked, but on stand I will just cock it and keep my finger out of the trigger guard.

Worked well for 6 days of 6 hour stand hunting.

BH63

Look at how a transfer bar system works. If that doesn't answer the question, nothing will.

Damn, but that is tough luck. Sorry to hear about it.

But even the best hitters fail 70 percent of the time.

Failure today is nothing but further fuel for success next time!

I hope you’ll make plans for that.