Some monhts ago , i saw an Suomi SMG; and that is some of the finest SMG i have seen , it had very good work and metal to wood fitting.

I didnt get to to fire it, but the owner told me it was some of the most exciting and raw sub gun he had ever fired, it had the great 52 round sleek magzine , and in 6 mag bags you could carry 300 rounds as opposed to 180 with 30 rounds mags.

I understood then how the guys could fight the foes with their stamina, endurance, and their fine guns.

as I recall reading somewhere, the casualties were rather lop-sided, in favor of the Finns.

I grew up next to a town in Ohio that was settled by Finns... interesting group of folks.

I read for some time ago that the casualty rates was the russian ca 1 million, the Finns 50 000, it remined me about the boer war in terms of losses, an large army meets an guerilla force that knows the terrain and their equipment well.

The Finns are great people, and the yare tough as few .

they still has used their Mosin nagnt actions on sniper rifles up til now,

quote:

rates was the russian ca 1 million

that's the figure I read somewhere, 1,000,000.

the caretaker of our church, when I was a kid, was a russian POW in Finland, and when that war ended, he didn't go back to Russia, because he knew he would be imprisoned, or worse, because he was captured, and "exposed to a foreign influence".

he left his family/everything behind and made it to the United States.

Thank you for your respectful words, gentlemen.

Winter War and Suomi SMG - two things that are well remembered parts of our national heritage. Suomi(=Finland) really is a good gun, designed by Aimo Johannes Lahti, who also created numerous other weapons. I've fired a couple of rounds with one and barely noticed any recoil when firing single shots. At 100 meters it was easy to keep hits inside the head portion of the "enemy" target. With the 72-round drum magazine it is a serious handful even today.

My both grandfathers fought in the Winter War and even though it can be regarded as a kind of a heroic fight from our point of view, it was also a terrible tragedy, like all wars. They both made through it unwounded, but both had their share of close calls, of which my other grandfather didn't ever want to talk about. Luckily they did what they had to, so our eastern border settled to where it is today -40 km east from where I was born...

I think the same thing happen to the Russian in WWII when they fought the Germans, they lost way more men then Germany did.

Too bad the Finns didn't kill more of those damn russians!

quote:

Too bad the Finns didn't kill more of those damn russians!

I did some reading around after seeing this thread- there were two russian generals courtmartialed, found guilty, and executed in about 15 minutes for losing field kitchens. the finns took out the kitchens to starve the russians, and it worked well- they also did a fair amount of sniping, as I read it.

this is a subject that bears further investigation

This is a good article about the "Winter War".

http://www.kaiku.com/winterwar.html

dxr

quote:

they also did a fair amount of sniping, as I read it.

That is true, and I was lucky to meet the best of snipers, Simo Häyhä, a couple of times when I was a kid. Nice man and also a avid hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by JTH:

quote:

they also did a fair amount of sniping, as I read it.

That is true, and I was lucky to meet the best of snipers, Simo Häyhä, a couple of times when I was a kid. Nice man and also a avid hunter.

Did Simo Häyhä mention what rifle he used (for sniping) in the war?

unscoped mosin-nagant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:
unscoped mosin-nagant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4

Thanks, tincan!

......"Finnish variant, M28, of the Soviet Mosin-Nagant rifle (known as "Pystykorva" rifle)......"

Does anybody know the English translation of 'Pystykorva'?

"Pystykorva" actually means a certain type of dog. Our national dog is The Finnish Spitz and that is called Suomenpystykorva in Finnish. So literally pystykorva would mean spitz, I guess.

Simo Häyhä used to live next door to my grandpa when they were both retired, so I met him there and we all three played cards a couple of times. He also attended my grandpa's funeral later. Simo lived by himself still at the age of 90 and passed away only a couple of years ago.

There are many stories of Simo as a hunter too. Unsurprisingly, they usually include some acts of special marksmanship or patience out of this world - with the exception that they were actually witnessed by many people and were true. I remember hearing that during his hunting career he shot more than 70 moose and was very good at tracking (and shooting!) foxes in winter time. He also gave some shooting lessons at local schools in the 1950's.

Simo was known as a very modest and quiet man, who was well-known, but everyone respected his will to remain outside publicity. One of our greates heroes of the Winter War he definitely was.

following up on JTH's post above-

Simo late in life:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

Oh yes, I forgot: the origins of Pystykorva name? It was due to the small protective leaf-like covers on both sides of the bead of the frontsight. The original M1891 version had the tunnel-like cover and the Pystykorva name was to describe one of the easily recognisable features of the Finnish version.

For those of you who are further interested in the Winter War, I recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Winter-War-Antti-Tuuri/dp/097310533X

It is by far the best book of the subject that I've come up to. It is a story told from one man's point of wiew, how he fought in the Finnish Winter War. The book is based on real interwievs, but written by Antti Tuuri, who is a well-known Finnish author. I hope the translation is good, since the book has a really realistic and touching feel in its description of the war. IMHO at least everyone in Finland should read it a couple of times.

quote:

Originally posted by JTH:

quote:

they also did a fair amount of sniping, as I read it.

That is true, and I was lucky to meet the best of snipers, Simo Häyhä, a couple of times when I was a kid. Nice man and also a avid hunter.

Very chilling thought, very good use of historical data. Pay attention or we will all lose - and this is not an "Assualt rifle!"

If i doesnt remeber wrong the combat cry was "hugg inn Nordens gutter"...

The finns was and is some of the best soldiers up here in Scandinavia. They can do much with little.

I am so honored to have as friends, Finnish, now Swedes who were orphaned and given safe harbour by Sweden from the Winters War.
If ever in Stockholm. Be sure to visit the little memorial inside the "Old Finnish Church" in Gamla stan. It is a statue of a small boy orphaned as a result of the Winters War.

quote:

Originally posted by mr rigby:
I read for some time ago that the casualty rates was the russian ca 1 million, the Finns 50 000, it remined me about the boer war in terms of losses, an large army meets an guerilla force that knows the terrain and their equipment well.

The Finns are great people, and the yare tough as few .

they still has used their Mosin nagnt actions on sniper rifles up til now,

I use to have a book on the Russo Finnish War of 1939...

In the end, the Russian losses were admitted after the fall of the Iron Curtain at a little over a million in 5 months of combat...

Finnish losses killed were just around 25,000 soldiers..

a lot of Swedish and some Norwegian units were actually allowed to "take leave" en masse and form units in the Finnish Army.. as also did some Swedish AF units..

The book was one of the most fantastic reads about survival and ingenuity that I have ever read.. I liked it so much I must have read it over 10 times..

The Finns were just amazing.. at the same time, the Russians were just unbelievable morons..

I am a firm believer that the Russo Finnish War waked up the Russians enough, that had it not happened... Hitlers invasion of Russia in June 1041 would have been much more successful..

If you can find any books on that war, it will be one of the most inspirational books that you have ever read on warfare...

quote:

Originally posted by JTH:
Oh yes, I forgot: the origins of Pystykorva name? It was due to the small protective leaf-like covers on both sides of the bead of the frontsight. The original M1891 version had the tunnel-like cover and the Pystykorva name was to describe one of the easily recognisable features of the Finnish version.

For those of you who are further interested in the Winter War, I recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Winter-War-Antti-Tuuri/dp/097310533X

It is by far the best book of the subject that I've come up to. It is a story told from one man's point of wiew, how he fought in the Finnish Winter War. The book is based on real interwievs, but written by Antti Tuuri, who is a well-known Finnish author. I hope the translation is good, since the book has a really realistic and touching feel in its description of the war. IMHO at least everyone in Finland should read it a couple of times.

Another book I found to be a good read on the Winter War, is "A Frozen Hell" by William Trotter. Goes into the politics of the problem, as well as the difficulties faced by the men on the front lines.

quote:

I use to have a book on the Russo Finnish War of 1939...

Title? Sounds like a good one, along with the other books mentioned.

Tin Can,

Alas the book turned up missing during a move about 6 years ago.. I don't remember the exact title or author... I think it was a Finnish book that had been translated into English...

I never tired of reading it at all...

Some of the most phenominal combat reading I have ever done.. that and the 2 books I read about Task Force G, and The Battalion of the Damned... both about Ex Nazi SS soldiers who first fought under the French Foreign Legion in Indo China, and then after the Fall of that, were not wanted back in Germany since they had been in the SS, so they were made into a Special Battalion in the S. Vietnamese Army and called Task Force G...

The Finns didn't screw around with the Russians nor did the Former SS soldiers screw around with the Viet Minh or later the Viet Cong & the NVA...

quote:

who first fought under the French Foreign Legion

I had a book years ago, it was a history of the Foreign Legion in the first World War- fascinating, written by a member.

he described joining, and it went like this- you signed up, gave a name, no ID was asked for. they gave you a train ticket, you had to walk by yourself to the station to take the train to camp. in other words, they gave a guy ample opportunity to reconsider before he actually got into training.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Too bad the Finns didn't kill more of those damn russians!

1,000,000??? That's about 20,000,000 Russians less than Stalin himself killed........

I was lucky enough to get my hands on a 20MM Lahti, when they were pretty cheap the only mproblem is the ammo. I only have four loaded rounds left.

it's a long story, but there was a lahti in our livingroom one night when I was about six years old...

This is VERY interesting! Thanks.

I had a friend in Canada who was a German, born in Hungary. When he was in his very early teens he was "drafted" to serve on the already failing "Eastern Front". As his unit fell back into & through Germany, he surrendered to the French. They gave him the choice of being turned over to the Russians or joining the French Foreign Legion.

So, he ended up at Dien Ben Phu (sp?)when it fell.

Escaping capture, he made his way west across either Cambodia or Laos (I'm not sure which) and ended up in a "DP" camp (Displaced Persons' camp) on the seacoast. After some extended period of time as a virtual prisoner in that camp, he was allowed to immigrate to Canada, where I met him. A very nice man, he was and presumably still is a remarkable human being.

Many people today are in real need of meeting folks like him, and finding out just what the world can be like when political "leaders" like to play with wars.

**THIS** thread is the wonderfully high degree of quality communication that makes me grateful for access to AR.
THANKS!!

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
I read about Task Force G, and The Battalion of the Damned... both about Ex Nazi SS soldiers who first fought under the French Foreign Legion in Indo China, and then after the Fall of that, were not wanted back in Germany since they had been in the SS, so they were made into a Special Battalion in the S. Vietnamese Army and called Task Force G...
.

This book is a total fiction à la Sven Hassel..

quote:

Many people today are in real need of meeting folks like him, and finding out just what the world can be like when political "leaders" like to play with wars.

I'd extend that to "social engineering" in general- and very true, the knowledge and experience of the past would not be wasted.

and, as commented above, this is one high quality thread.

The winterwar was the big conflict up north that made people understand that more was on its way. Many thought the Finns wouldnt hold up to the russians, and then they would come through Sweden to us in Norway, but the Finns stopped them

While we toast Skaal for an drink, the Finns have many others, including "Klara Vapen" , have your weapon ready.

While we have aging F 16 planes that are upgraded, the finns have 50 F18s , and they have a smaller Defense budget than we have.


While we build our armed forces down , the Finns have an good defense force on watch for the russian bear.

The finnish were great warriors and inflicted heavy casualties to the commies as everybody knows the only good comunists are the dead ones-one of them LARRY THORNE then figthed with the SOG in Vietnam as a green beret ,there he used a bolt action ,specifically an springfield .Juan

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
I read about Task Force G, and The Battalion of the Damned... both about Ex Nazi SS soldiers who first fought under the French Foreign Legion in Indo China, and then after the Fall of that, were not wanted back in Germany since they had been in the SS, so they were made into a Special Battalion in the S. Vietnamese Army and called Task Force G...
.

This book is a total fiction à la Sven Hassel..

Well Edmondo, mon Amie...

It may be total BS and fiction, but it sure was a darn good read!!!

quote:

Originally posted by JTH:
Thank you for your respectful words, gentlemen.

Winter War and Suomi SMG - two things that are well remembered parts of our national heritage. Suomi(=Finland) really is a good gun, designed by Aimo Johannes Lahti, who also created numerous other weapons. I've fired a couple of rounds with one and barely noticed any recoil when firing single shots. At 100 meters it was easy to keep hits inside the head portion of the "enemy" target. With the 72-round drum magazine it is a serious handful even today.

My both grandfathers fought in the Winter War and even though it can be regarded as a kind of a heroic fight from our point of view, it was also a terrible tragedy, like all wars. They both made through it unwounded, but both had their share of close calls, of which my other grandfather didn't ever want to talk about. Luckily they did what they had to, so our eastern border settled to where it is today -40 km east from where I was born...

During this war, the Finns taught the world how to use ski troops. In addition, they were the first to use large numbers of submachine guns on the battlefield. Both of these lessons were learned by the Soviets, and were employed by them against the Germans later when massive numbers of PPSH-type SMGs were issued to assault units, and Soviet ski formations counterattacked the Germans after their initial onslaught was stopped by General Winter. This activity is what resulted in the German STG 44 and the later Soviet AK-47.