The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Trying to get the hang of doubles...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Trying to get the hang of doubles... | Login/Join |
One of Us |
First thanks to 465HH who let me shoot his double while passing thru Boise. It's a Searcy 470....a little too much recoil for me...it's only the second time I have shot a double and it was also a 470...and I have to say I don't enjoy the recoil. This was my four shots (and only 4 shots that was plenty) at 25 meters off-hand. My eyes are getting old as I was having trouble getting the front bead crisp in my sight picture. Measures about 2 1/8.  Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
|
One of Us |
You did fine with the eyes and a heavy kicking rifle. Don't worry about a thing. Try a .450-400 next time. You'll be pleasantly surprised. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
|
| one of us |
Mike Nothing wrong with that shooting for someone new to doubles. As Cal stated, try a 450/400. Or if you are not planning on shooting elephants or cape buff in Africa with it, try a 9,3x74R. However I have killed an elephant, and a cape buff with my 9,3 double. My 9,3x74 AND my 450/400 both have scopes in QD mounts. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
Stock fit can make a big difference on felt recoil. A LOP that is short for the shooter is no fun. Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
|
| one of us |
With a little time and practice things should improve.I like my Searcy 500NE.I am actually admiring mine at this moment! I too don`t like the recoil of any rifle especially my big bores.Learn to shoot and then lay off them-at least for a while. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Shootaway, Would you please shoot four rounds from your 500 double at 25 yards and beat this group? Also, please post the pictures of your group. By the way, you only get one try! 465H&H | |||
|
| one of us |
I would love to and I will but right now I am taking a break from recoil. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think Mike did an excellent job with my 470. Quite a few shooters have tried it and none have come close to this group. Here is a challenge for all of you. It might be fun for all of you that have a double of 458 caliber or larger to try this simple test and post your results. This was firing a 500 grain CEB#13 at 2,150 fps in front of 110 grains of H-4831. So full loads only please. I picked 25 yards as this is about as far as anyone would open hostilities on an elephant. Shooting must be from off hand position with out any other supprt including shooting sticks. Only one try and post your results, good or bad. 465H&H | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'll await your results with baited breath. 465H&H | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mike: I own and have owned about 12 doubles and I will tell you that a well fitting stock is essential to less felt recoil. I would encourage you to find a double that fits (or have a competent smith measure you for dimensions) and you will find recoil much less severe. Dutch | |||
|
one of us |
That's fine shooting Mike. 465H&H, You have a noble idea of getting people to post groups on the honor system, but these beasts called internet forums seem to deviate from the honor system of old. Everyone seems to now be a keyboard expert and will refuse to be judged or questioned. BTW - I'm blaming you when Mike shows up on his next pig hunt with a double rifle.  | |||
|
One of Us |
A few years ago I got a chance to shoot with Sam. My first experience with DRs & I got to shoot about 6 different rifles. I shot a 45/70, 9.3X74 etc. I shot the 450/400 (Webley action) very well as the rifle fit me perfectly. But the Chapui 470 hammered me & I had a head ache for the rest of the day. The stock just did not fit me. I think I also shot a very light (9 lbs) 500 NE Greifelt. I then shot Corbin's Jeffery 600 NE - shot lead loads & full power 900 gr loads. That just pushed me back but no damage! The fit of the rifle was the key. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Naki, I believe you are correct in that those that are a little critical of Mike's shooting are unlikely to post how they did on the same test. That just proves my point through. Some on here are all talk and no action. I am looking forward to see if Cal can outshoot shootaway.  As far as gun fit goes, Mike is about my height and weighs a few pounds more than me. I watched him shoulder the 470 a few times and it looked like the rifle fit him pretty well. On the first two shots, he had to take a step back on each shot. I gave him a few tips on stance and recoil control and on the last two shots with the double and 4 shots with my 458 he did much better. The low shot of the pictured group was his last of four shots. I think the recoil was starting to get to him. He is basically a very good shot. He just doesn't like recoil and was not relaxed when shooting a heavy caliber rifle. 465H&H | |||
|
| One of Us |
465: I can at least equal Shootaway. I use a heavy 2-ounce load of 000 buckshot in a 12-gauge at 25 yards. Our targets are identical. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'd post my outstanding 4-shot group, but I just can't get the powder burns off the target :-) | |||
|
| One of Us |
465 H&H- I think Mike's shooting is just fine. My comment on possible stock fit was based only on his statement regarding recoil. Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
|
| one of us |
Nothing wrong with that group. The rifle appears to shoot a little low for you, which, if it was yours, would be easily remedied. FWIW, I truly believe that you can get used to the recoil and begin to shoot in a more relaxed manor by building up the rounds you shoot. Shoot a couple and call it good and move to a 22 or something light recoiling. Within a week shoot four and move on... within a week shoot six or eight and move on... you will be able to shoot relaxed and not dread the recoil within a couple of weeks. After laying off heavy recoiling rifles or my 12ga slug guns, the slug guns are more unpleasant than any else I shoot, I have to remind myself that the recoil won't really hurt me. But within a couple of weeks I can shoot 20 or more developing loads before I need to call it a day. Shooting at game, you will only feel enough recoil to know the rifle has fired. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
|
| One of Us |
I failed to tell him how to align the sights. I suspect he wasn't getting the top of the bead even with the top of the rear sight ears. 465H&H | |||
|
| One of Us |
Plenty good! Especially for the first time! . | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ken, No problem, I was just trying to clarify that I didn't see that stock fit was a problem in this case. 465H&H | |||
|
One of Us |
  Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
|
One of Us |
Looks like pretty darn good shooting to me. Well done. Not all of us can shoot like George . . . but it gives us something to aspire to and strive for. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
Just use two targets and remove the front one "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
|
One of Us |
Concur with good shooting, especially for your relative inexperience with a double rifle. Think of it this way - shooting a large caliber double is like making love to a big woman........just hang on tight and enjoy the ride! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Subsailor, It sounds like you speak from experience! 465H&H | |||
|
| One of Us |
I was a sailor for 30 years - what can I say? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Admiral, is that why they refer to you guys as "Seamen"? :-) | |||
|
One of Us |
Mike if you get down to Houston, you are welcome to shoot my 450/400. You won't have any recoil issues! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
|
| One of Us |
You are all much too kind... Especially, Walt at saying I am a "few" pounds more than he is...I suspect I am at least 50 lbs heavier. Rusty, I will take you up on your offer if I am ever in your fair City; however, may be you can find a guy with a 9,3x74r so I can shoot a few of the bg ones and then don't have to sit out the rest of the day bcuz I am a wimp. Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
You get to Houston and we have rifles from a 9.3x74R, or better yet a .400/.360, up to a .577 to play with. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mike, I ain't shootin a .577 period...and if that means I have to wear pink...oh well.  Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
 | |||
|
| One of Us |
That kid is way cuter than I ever was...I am sure his mom convinced dad that it was light raspberry instead of pink...me I look better in earth tones...of course here I am delivering self punishment with a CZ in 550 magnum launching a 700 grn bullet at 2250 fps. I didn't like that either..  Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Trying to get the hang of doubles...
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia