http://www.barnesbullets.com/r...008-barnes-bullet-n/

Barnes has addressed in their news letter the safety issue of using Barnes bullets in doubles. You may have to cut and paste the link scroll down to bottom of the page for pressure test. I have not seen this before.

JD

JD,
how are you buddy,here's my take on this and the TSX bullets,out of my Chapuis with custom loaded ammo,my first trip to Africa,2nd day out and the gun could'nt hold a 6" group at 25yrds,my bolt rifle trash saved the day,I would never shoot those out my double rifle again.

What a joke. Damage to DR barrels has nothing to do with pressure, and everybody knows that. I've discussed their "tests" with Ty on the phone. I tried, but I couldn't keep myself from laughing.
-------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
JD,
how are you buddy,here's my take on this and the TSX bullets,out of my Chapuis with custom loaded ammo,my first trip to Africa,2nd day out and the gun could'nt hold a 6" group at 25yrds,my bolt rifle trash saved the day,I would never shoot those out my double rifle again.

What happened thereafter to the gun. Was it "fixable"?

quote:

The material used to manufacture Barnes Banded Solids will not obturate at less than 45,000 psi.

I agree with Mark, it's not the chamber or peak pressure that's of concern.

It's the fact that the bullets don't obturate, and they can stretch the thin-walled barrels (thin compared to a bolt gun) as they pass down the bore... To Bal's point, this can result in a rib popping loose.

I wish someone could explain this to Barnes, and they would focus thier efforts on this point rather than pressure.

High pressure is easy to identify: It increases velocity.

If you're reading this, Thad Stevens, please put some down the bore of a thin-walled double rifle barrel and see if any increase in the OD of the barrel can be measured. Those are the test results we're looking for.

I'll provide the barrels for your testing.

Judge,
howdy my man,JJ had a go at it,shoots not bad now at 50,but am sending it back for him to tweak it some more.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
JD,
how are you buddy,here's my take on this and the TSX bullets,out of my Chapuis with custom loaded ammo,my first trip to Africa,2nd day out and the gun could'nt hold a 6" group at 25yrds,my bolt rifle trash saved the day,I would never shoot those out my double rifle again.

What happened thereafter to the gun. Was it "fixable"?

Chris, has Heym decided that Barnes mono-metals are verbotten?

I still need to take time to send you my 470 for those firing pins. Do you need the whole rifle or can I send just the butt end?

take care,
josh

I was wondering, has anyone ever PERSONALLY SEEN a gun that was damaged buy a Barnes bullet?

400nitroexpress has on and had another that was damaged. There's a thread going on at NE about this now.

As for me, no but I won't risk the problem.. There's too many other good bullets available.

Stupid question here.

I have been reading the thread related to Barnes bullets on the Nitro Express forum. Can someone tell me what "OSR" means?

"To Barnes or not to Barnes"...In any doubt...Do not "Barnes".

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Stupid question here.

I have been reading the thread related to Barnes bullets on the Nitro Express forum. Can someone tell me what "OSR" means?

Outside Stressed Rifling.


Not 100% sure on the "O" though. Could be obturated.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Stupid question here.

I have been reading the thread related to Barnes bullets on the Nitro Express forum. Can someone tell me what "OSR" means?

Outside Stressed Rifling.


Not 100% sure on the "O" though. Could be obturated.

......................Correction!
.............OSR means "OVER STRESSED RIFLEING"

Thanks Mac.


A long weekend and too much Red wine,
just couldn't think of it.

One more stupid question.

As I indicated, I have been following the posts on the Nitro Express forum on this topic. I am wondering if this problems exits with monometal bullets, is is just confined to guns with "thin" barrels and If so, which guns have "thin" barrels. I have two doubles, a Krieghoff and a Blaser. The Krieghoff barrels do not appear to be particularly thin to me and the barrels on my Blaser .470 are hell for stout!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
One more stupid question.

As I indicated, I have been following the posts on the Nitro Express forum on this topic. I am wondering if this problems exits with monometal bullets, is is just confined to guns with "thin" barrels and If so, which guns have "thin" barrels. I have two doubles, a Krieghoff and a Blaser. The Krieghoff barrels do not appear to be particularly thin to me and the barrels on my Blaser .470 are hell for stout!

Dave I think in the older doubles, it is a combination of thin barrels, and softer steel, and in those I definately would not use any Momo-metal bullet other that a North fork or Gs custom. It the newer double rifles it is a matter of better steel, and in some cases heavier barrels, but...........Neither is exempt from OSR with any Mono-metal solid or soft with a solid shank, without the properly made pressure rings. With the NF, and the GS custom bullets the rifleing never touches the solid shank, and the pressure rings are thin enough that the rifleing can displace the engraved material into the grooves between the rings easily. If the rings are too wide, too much material has to be displaced by the engraving, and the danger of OSR is likely.

The first thing anyone needs to do is slug his barrels, and measure them very carefully. The bullet diameter you use should be the one that is right for the tightest barrel. and if you choose to use mono-metal bullets my reccomendation is either the North Fork (NEW) softs, CPS, and FPS. The older softs didn't have the rings cut all the way up to the lead core portion, but the new ones do, so are now safe in a double rifle with proper bore dia for the chambering. Some doubles have tight bores, and have to be judged individually!

OSR is not the only effect that bullets that are too hard cause in a double rifle.

It far more often causes the solder joints to seperate, causeing a loss of regulation, and is expensive to fix, but if the OSR happens, and is bad enough to require smithing it usually means a new set of barrels at the tune of close to $10K. Not a thing that I want to take a chance on with my double rifles, and I have both new, and old double rifles.

What really erks me about that thread on NE is the out and out calling people liars simply because they can't supply a picture of a condition we old double rifle users have all seen with our own eyes. NOW! it is one thing to THINK it will not damage a double rifle to use most Mono-metal bullets in them,and use them yourself, but to go head an reccomend them to first time buyers of double rifles, when you have no basis for believing OSR doesn't exist other that personal opinion.

In the thread on NE is that one guy is simply a know-it-all ass, and can't be civil, and has no experience where double rifles are concerned. 9.3X57, however is trying to work things out in his mind, but is simply sceptical, but at least willing to discuss the matter, without the other guy's scarcasm. His's take on the subject is a Know-It-All OPINION that is no different from a person who has never ridden in an airplane, telling a pilot how to fly one!

That thread will never go anyplace as long as that butthead is on board. He has no experience with OSR so because he hasn't seen it first hand, it simply doesn't exist, as far as he is concerned!

27 pounds of powder burned in bolt, and lever action rifle per year teaches you nothing about what will work in a double rifle, much less what may damage it, or to what extent.

............The key to a long term useful double rifle is simply don't use any bullet in a double that MAY damage it. There are too many good bullets available! Case closed!

I believe that Barnes are trouble, but we should recall that Woodleigh solids, Hornaday solids, any steel jacketed solid worth its salt is also a hard bullet - though in imy opinion not so hard as the Barnes since they can and do obturate (see the little tit of lead protruding from the base of a fired Woodleigh for example.)

I's rather shoot 20 North Fork solids in my rifle than a handful of Woodliegh solids. But I use both for elephant hunting.

JPK

Thanks guys. Both of my guns were regulated with Woodleighs. I think I will just stick with the Woodleighs but I did pick up some Hawk bullets for my .470 that I wanted to try.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I believe that Barnes are trouble, but we should recall that Woodleigh solids, Hornaday solids, any steel jacketed solid worth its salt is also a hard bullet - though in imy opinion not so hard as the Barnes since they can and do obturate (see the little tit of lead protruding from the base of a fired Woodleigh for example.)

I's rather shoot 20 North Fork solids in my rifle than a handful of Woodliegh solids. But I use both for elephant hunting.

JPK

But you are forgetting that Woodleigh SOLIDS are not only tapered so are only full diameter near the base but also slightly very slightly undersize.

They follow the correct profile of Kynoch.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I believe that Barnes are trouble, but we should recall that Woodleigh solids, Hornaday solids, any steel jacketed solid worth its salt is also a hard bullet - though in imy opinion not so hard as the Barnes since they can and do obturate (see the little tit of lead protruding from the base of a fired Woodleigh for example.)

I's rather shoot 20 North Fork solids in my rifle than a handful of Woodliegh solids. But I use both for elephant hunting.

JPK

But you are forgetting that Woodleigh SOLIDS are not only tapered so are only full diameter near the base but also slightly very slightly undersize.

They follow the correct profile of Kynoch.

Right!.............