Gentlemen,
Picked up my new Merkel 450-400 3" double on Friday and had to go shoot it on Sunday.
(I'll put up a few photos of it soon)

Started off with 79 - H4831 and a 400 Woodleigh and went up to 83 grains, regulation got much better as I went up, although every load was not that far apart on a horizontal plane.
On a more serious note, the left barrel seems to shoot around an inch or inch and a half higher than the right barrel, left barrel is also averaging 60 fps higher than the right.

A good mate of mine here has the same double rifle and his is much worse, the left barrel is easily 4-5" higher than the right one, and they are both about 2 inches apart horizontally, no matter what the load.

We have been told by the Australian Merkel agent that we need to fire at least 200 rounds through them WITHOUT CLEANING before they will entertain any warranty concerns.

Anyone every heard of this before? Goes against everything I had ever experienced before.

The groups from my rifle were indeed getting closer both horizontally and vertically the higher the loads were that I tried.
Should I keep going a grain or two more and see if they come together even more?

Any help and suggestions greatly appreciated.

Regards,
David.

Are you getting any pressure signs at 83 gr of H4831?

You might also try some IMR 48 21 and some RL 15.

You must use a filler with RL 15.

Some doubles will shoot much better with RL 15 vs. the 4831's, others prefer one of the 4831's.

My 450 No2 and my 450/400 3 1/4" doubles shoot the same with both RL 15, and IMR 4831, you never know till you try...

quote:

Originally posted by H&H_Mad:
Gentlemen,
Picked up my new Merkel 450-400 3" double on Friday and had to go shoot it on Sunday.
(I'll put up a few photos of it soon)

Started off with 79 - H4831 and a 400 Woodleigh and went up to 83 grains, regulation got much better as I went up, although every load was not that far apart on a horizontal plane.
On a more serious note, the left barrel seems to shoot around an inch or inch and a half higher than the right barrel, left barrel is also averaging 60 fps higher than the right.

The groups from my rifle were indeed getting closer both horizontally and vertically the higher the loads were that I tried.
Should I keep going a grain or two more and see if they come together even more?

Any help and suggestions greatly appreciated.

Regards,
David.

It is not unusual for the new rifle to take a few rounds both to loosen up, and to bring the regulation in properly! The spread you are showing isn’t that bad, you could be just canting the rifle slightly.

With a little tweaking of the loads and the use of other powders, as Tony suggests it may come together. However if you are getting pressure sign from any powder in a double rifle the load is too hot! The H-4831 burns slower that the IMR-4831, so if I were getting any sign of excess pressure with the Hogdon 4831, I’d be a little leery of the IMR powder, and stat lower with that.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Are you getting any pressure signs at 83 gr of H4831?

You might also try some IMR 4831 and some RL 15.

You must use a filler with RL 15.

Some doubles will shoot much better with RL 15 vs. the 4831's, others prefer one of the 4831's.

My 450 No2 and my 450/400 3 1/4" doubles shoot the same with both RL 15, and IMR 4831, you never know till you try...

Tony have you used the H-4831sc powder? If you have did you need filler with it since it fills the case less than the H-4831 because of the smaller grains of powder! The SC (SHORT CUT) version was made so it will flow through a podwer measure better, but fills the case less than the original H-4831. I use the short cut in some of my bolt rifle cases but have never tried it in a large bore double.

.....................................................................

Mac

I have never used the Short Cut 4831.

I have this rifle (the 140-2) and have been frustrated with the low point of impact.

I'm shooting a 400 grain DGX and NF CPS with 81 grains of H4831 and 79 grains of H4831, respectively, and I generally strike 3-4" low at 50 yards if I bury the front sight in the notch. I understand Merkel expects you to hold with the front sight level with the top of the rear, which feels weird to me, but it more or less works. With that hold I'm 1-2" high at 50 yards.

I'd prefer a point of impact that is dead on at 50 yards when I'm burying the front sight in the notch, and I'm still screwing around with front sight height (I had NECG replace my front sight with an adjustable bead) and loads to try to get what I want.

But at least my left and right barrels seem to hit at essentially the same point of aim.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffNut:
I have this rifle (the 140-2) and have been frustrated with the low point of impact.

I'm shooting a 400 grain DGX and NF CPS with 81 grains of H4831 and 79 grains of H4831, respectively, and I generally strike 3-4" low at 50 yards if I bury the front sight in the notch. I understand Merkel expects you to hold with the front sight level with the top of the rear, which feels weird to me, but it more or less works. With that hold I'm 1-2" high at 50 yards.

I'd prefer a point of impact that is dead on at 50 yards when I'm burying the front sight in the notch, and I'm still screwing around with front sight height (I had NECG replace my front sight with an adjustable bead) and loads to try to get what I want.

But at least my left and right barrels seem to hit at essentially the same point of aim.

You are absolutely correct about the regulation sight picture on Merkel double rifles. The sight picture is exactly the same as most handgun sights, The top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight with equal amounts of light showing on each side of the front bead. That is with the older factory sights like the two Merkel doubles I have. The later ones have a wide "V" rear but the patridge front bead, and they don't seem to work so well as the older sight.

That works well for pin point accuracy but is slow for instinctive shooting. I agree with you! I too like the round bead, and the shallow wide "V" for the standing rear blade but I like the Merkel sight on the down range rear blades, for better pin point accuracy for longer down range shots where you have time to aim.

The Merkel sights are easily modified as you have found.
What brand of adjustable front bead did you use?
...............................................................Keep use in the loop as you make mods on your sights!

quote:

What brand of adjustable front bead did you use?

I don't know what the brand is - I had it done by New England Custom Guns. They just describe it as a "Universal Front Sight". It comes in different sizes and heights, each with up to .060" of elevation adjustment. I went with a medium size white bead and have it set in the "medium" position. As long as I hold the way Merkel wants, I'm pretty much where I want to be with my loads.

http://up.picr.de/19392933re.jpg

Here they work at an 450-400.