I have a Vanguard in 223. It shoots 55 grain rounds OK. Green tip 62 grainers not even on the paper and they tumble. Anyone else had this happen or have ideas. I remember the Viet-Nam guys complaining about the M16 and tumbling rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by cowboy77845:
I have a Vanguard in 223. It shoots 55 grain rounds OK. Green tip 62 grainers not even on the paper and they tumble. Anyone else had this happen or have ideas. I remember the Viet-Nam guys complaining about the M16 and tumbling rounds.

What's the twist? My understanding is that some have 1:9 but others (earlier?) have 1:12. I'm betting you have a 1:12 and it is too slow to stabilize the 62 grain bullet.

The "Vietnam" tumbling you referred was what sometimes occurred after the bullet hit it's intended target, not in flight.

https://weatherby.com/faqs/why...for-vanguard-rifles/

https://www.ssusa.org/articles...ly%20dressed%20enemy.

Semper Fi

The rifle is of recent mfg. and supposedly has the faster twist rate. The Ruger mini 14 I owned had the faster twist rate and was most inaccurate with the green tips.

There are a lot of reasons for the unstable flight of a bullet. What comes to mind first is too slow of twist. If that is not in the calculation, then it might be that the velocity is not sufficient. I have seen bullets that were borderline heavy/long that needed max or near max loads to stabilize. The last thing might just be the barrel just doesn't like this particular projectile. I had two 30/06 rifles that would shoot 180 grain and 150 grain bullets to the accuracy that was to be envied, but I couldn't load a 165 to get closer than 2-2.5" at 100 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by cowboy77845:
The rifle is of recent mfg. and supposedly has the faster twist rate. The Ruger mini 14 I owned had the faster twist rate and was most inaccurate with the green tips.

I think I'd measure the twist myself. Just to rule out slow twist as a variable.

Is the rifle chambered for 5.56 ammo? If not then you shouldn't be firing it in the rifle. They are not loaded to the same spec and you can see over pressure and failure.

Rifke provides best group with Winchester G.I. 55gr ball, next is Remington Coreloct 55 gr SP. My understanding is that 223 vs. 5.56 Nato is no longer valid in recently mfg rifles. I asked my gunsmith and he said it is a nonissue these days. It was not in my CZ which I regret I sold> I really wanted a semi auto in 223. The AR is a nonstarter because when I familiarized in 1967 I repeatedly got bang, bang click.

quote:

Originally posted by Palladin8:
Is the rifle chambered for 5.56 ammo? If not then you shouldn't be firing it in the rifle. They are not loaded to the same spec and you can see over pressure and failure.

I had a Savage 24V chambered in 223, would not reliably fire 5.65x45 mm.
Had the barrel rebored for 6x45 mm, all better now, a nice little antelope/sage grouse piece.

My son has a Ruger American Ranch bolt action 223 with a 16" barrel and 1:8" twist. He uses it with a suppressor and I load the 65gr Sierra SPBT for him, same bullet and load with H4895 powder the original owner developed.
Haven't checked the MV of this load but it will be down possibly 200fps on most book velocities for 24" barrels however it is an accurate shooter with no sign of bullet instability.

Possibly the green tip is making the projectile base heavy and causing the instability despite the 1:9" twist. Try a standard lead nosed projectile like the 65gr SPBT and see what happens.

Most of the SS109 ammo we get is overruns and stuff that is not mil spec for some reason. (XM855 isn’t M855 - it might be, but it doesn’t have to be- it may have failed QC for milspec)

Before blaming the rifle, I’d try the ammo in a gun known to handle that type of ammo well.

I’ve never had fine (sub MOA) results with the penetrator ammo, but most of the time it’s well within military requirements (<2” at 100m). I did shoot some that was bad, and cut a bullet apart- the core was loose in it- so bad ammo, bad results.

The Vanguard "should" have the same twist at 1 in 9' as my Howa....since they're the same rifle.
Mine shoots 60 Vmax and LOOOOONG 64 Hammer Hunters really well.
Like other's suggested, check your own twist and know what it is then go from there.

Zeke

Seems it tends to like lighter bullets, nothing wrong with that, and the only other option you have is a new barrel or gun..A 40 or 45 gr. bullet in a 223 is pretty damn deadly on any varmint and many Texas whitetail as given the knee too one of those speedy little buggers..

I bought the rifle because I have a lot of 62 gr ammo. It will probably take 2nd place to my 22-250. Was at the ranch during deer season and watched a group of 45 hogs tear up a pasture. Need something inexpensive for hog shooting. So far I have seen deer more often than hogs. Given my disabilities, I may have to get a Track Chair which will allow me to get around better provided I am allowed to go out alone. Old age sucks.

Get you something to ride & go for it. Hogs from wheels sounds like fun.

There is no hard and fast rule with factory rifles regarding this.

I have had the two of the same make and model rifles.

One will shoot them and one would not!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
There is no hard and fast rule with factory rifles regarding this.

I have had the two of the same make and model rifles.

One will shoot them and one would not!

I totally agree that each rifle has it's own personality.
My bro has a 300 win that shoots anything from 150 to 200's really well but my identical rifle (same model and bought at the same time) will only shoot 180's to 200's well. Luckily that's what I wanted it to shoot well anyway.

Zeke

there to.. some bolt guns don't like a true mil spec. 5.56