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Copper Fouling wont stop
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Picture of bushwackr
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Hello I am having trouble with my better halfs 270wsm savage. When she got the gun she couldnt hit anything, so I started shooting it with no improvement. I figured it needs to be bedded, so had it bedded. Same thing poor accuracy. I figured id clean it. Well I took after it with Butches and a bronze brush. I would sit 5 min or so between passes. Every pad comes out lookin like it was painted with green paint. LOTS of copper in the barrel. I repeated this for at least two hours. Still comes out green. The local gunsmith figures that the throat is eroded. I want to try cleaning again the gun is only 2 years old we've had it for one of those years. Any suggestion on cleaning methods. Thanks All popcorn


"If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective."
- Ted Nugent -
 
Posts: 55 | Location: North Dakota | Registered: 18 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I am pretty sure Savage would like to hear about your problem. What you are describing sounds to me like a rough bore barrel got away from the factory. The shorld be more than happy to replace the barrel or lap it and smooth it up. Having seen what you are talking about myself its both time consuming and frustrating and I would not waste another minute, just to do it all over again. Savage barrels are readily available at very cheap prices. Contact Jim Briggs at Northland SHooters Supply 763-420-7163 for his opinion. He is a very knowledgable and friendly distributor.

338
 
Posts: 41 | Registered: 14 February 2008Reply With Quote
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Thanks I will call savage in the morning, and see what they say, just checkin to see if anyone else has run across this. Thanks


"If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective."
- Ted Nugent -
 
Posts: 55 | Location: North Dakota | Registered: 18 March 2006Reply With Quote
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bushwackr, first off, I think that is good advice from hammertyme. So having said that, I would follow up as you stated you would.

The question that comes to my mind when I read your post is: what causes your local smith to figure the throat is eroded? I have seen a LOT of rifle in that condition, and it is almost univerally because the previous owners just didn't clean their guns properly, if ever. I am a big believer in barrel break in, especially in factory barrels. It is a rare factory tube that is smooth enough to give me satisfactory performance without at least a little break in shooting and cleaning.

Let us know how you get on, but I would consider some agressive cleaning tactics and even firelapping if I hadn't confirmed through measurent that I had a throat issue, which by the way, IME, doesn't solely lead to heavy fouling or poor accuracy. Plenty of long throated Weatherby's out there that are damn accurate.
 
Posts: 3563 | Location: GA, USA | Registered: 02 August 2004Reply With Quote
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I'd get a more aggressive copper remover, like a foam cleaner, and soak the hell out of it.
Patch out every day or more often but your bronze brush is probably leaving copper stuff behind as you go.

Look at it this way, good copper removers work, it's just a matter of time.
 
Posts: 2355 | Location: Australia | Registered: 14 November 2004Reply With Quote
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What kind of bullets are you shooting. Barnes bullets do that to me.


The only easy day is yesterday!
 
Posts: 2734 | Location: Northern Minnesota | Registered: 22 September 2005Reply With Quote
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The throat probably is not shot out with the age being what you say it is unless you have really pumped the rounds through it, which I doubt. Suggest you give the bore a very good scrubbing with worn out brush/patch coated with JB compound or I actually prefer the Rem Clean bore cleaner-looks like mud-has a very mild abrasive in it, but it will remove most of the crud and copper plus polish/burnish the bore as well. If you did not break in the bore to begin with and do indeed have a rough surface at the throat, the copper will then be spread the length of the bore. Might want to give a real good cleaning as described, then shoot and clean for some 15-20 times, shoot and clean each five rounds three times and then check for copper. A little copper wash is not a bad thing, but can build up and lessen accuracy with time. I know it is a pain to go to all this work, but you are not working with a Krieger or Pope quality barrel and just takes a little more tender loving care!! Good Luck.
 
Posts: 1165 | Location: Banks of Kanawha, forks of Beaver Dam and Spring Creek | Registered: 06 January 2005Reply With Quote
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If you are using a copper removing solvent in conjunction with a copper coated brush then you are just redistributing copper the whole length of the barrel. Try some WipeOut and nylon brushes, then JB compound with a patch wrapped around an old copper brush and see if you get better results.


_________________________________

AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim.
 
Posts: 7025 | Location: Rambouillet, France | Registered: 25 June 2004Reply With Quote
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First to Fish30114 I called and described my problem to gordy (the gunsmith) and after I told him what I did and how the rifle act's that was his first guess with out lookin at the gun. Unfortunatly I (we) were not the first owners of the rifle so I obviously had no control of breakin of cleaning practices.

to JAL I thought that Sweets was the most agressive copper remover out there. I used Butches, Sweets and even the foam that I use in my muzzleloader, still excessive fouling on patches.

to Pegleg I religously use sierra and nosler bullets in this rifle. I use 180tsx barnes in my 300 win and the barrel is clean in no time nothing even close to this. Ive never seen this before.

to dsiteman it has had prob 50-80 rounds thru it . It will not shoot a group for at least a box of shells and then It starts coming around. When I clean back to square one. I have even had some 130 Noslers keyhole the paper at 200yd and some blow a quarter sized hole in the target. I know thats not right. It has happend more that once

to Wink I use dewey cleaning rods,jags, and sinclair brushes. There should be no problem there and have seen no trace of this in the past. The savage is the only one of my rifles that do it.

to hammertyme I contacted savage and they said that something about bad ammo and it left left massive copper fouling, or maybe that it mmay have a bad barrel. They said sent it in with a note of whats wrong and what I have already done to try and fix the problem and they will take if from there. Very good customer service but the lady I talked to must not have been having a good day Frowner


"If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective."
- Ted Nugent -
 
Posts: 55 | Location: North Dakota | Registered: 18 March 2006Reply With Quote
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bushwackr, I would take Savage up on their offer at this point. I would be real interesed what they actually do for you. With that few rounds before you got it, I have to agree with you, something foul seems afoot!

Good Luck--Don
 
Posts: 3563 | Location: GA, USA | Registered: 02 August 2004Reply With Quote
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What jag are you using? My gun kind of did the same thing. Turns out it was the jag making the color on the patch. The solvent was actually eating the brass jag. I did an experiment and left a wet patch just wrapped around the jag and it turned blue with in 1 minute.
 
Posts: 20 | Location: Pleasant Grove, Utah | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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I wouldn't describe Sweets as aggressive. I tend to use it and get plenty of colour, and the copper stays in the bore. Just when you think the stuff's gone off, some few applications later, Hey the coppers gone.

One rifle I don't shoot much fouls up quick, tried foam 3 times, weeks/months of No. 9 soaking (works slowly). After the third foam, soak all day some colourless liquid ran out, but no blue, copper streaks still in barrel, tried one more go of sweets in desperation and now I'm a winner. . . Until a few more shots that is. Smiler

Another one fouls up quick only with carbon. Figger me out that one. Must be dirty powder?
 
Posts: 2355 | Location: Australia | Registered: 14 November 2004Reply With Quote
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If Savage offered to take care of it, I wouldn't hesitate a moment to send it to them. This may be the only chance you get with them. If you delay and keep trying things yourself they might withdraw their offer. Even if you get the barrel clean, there is no assurance that it is going to shoot well. Every Savage I've owned was extremely accurate. Something is definitely wrong with yours. Take Savage up on their offer!


Red C.
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
 
Posts: 909 | Location: SE Oklahoma | Registered: 18 January 2008Reply With Quote
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