THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM FORUMS

Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
The First Big Fifty: 50-70 Govt.
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted
I've got these moulds, the 425-gr Lyman I have not used yet, and I have a .512" Lubrisizer die for it.
Need to do so.

Mike Venturino quoted that mould number as producing a 450-grain bullet in 1/20 alloy or "temper."
Any of y'all used this mould?
I reckon I ought to try 1/20 for prettiest bullets and heaviest useful weight?

70 grains of FFg ...



 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
What rifle are you loading for? It makes a difference if it's a new production or an antique.

Jerry Liles
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 01 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
I need a light BP load for this original that has been tuned up by Rusty McGee. It has had its cracked stock repaired with epoxy, re-crowned, and internals inspected, cleaned and lightly lubed.
Otherwise it is original except for the brass tacks and the human hair braid wind guage. It came with that accessory:
hilbily
Crazy Horse may have picked this up at the battle of Little Big Horn:



I also need a heavy BP load for this "True Grit" Texas Ranger McNelly Carbine replica (Sharps 1859 percussion conversion to centerfire), from Cimmaron Firearms Co. (A. C. Armisport).
I have used smokeless and the "500-gr" Lee cast bullet in it:



The McNelly Sharps does shoot well enough, with smokeless, and the bore might be better than that of the 1866 U.S. Springfield original above. Wink
The "Injun Gun" above is a "Second Allin Conversion" of the 1864 U.S. Springfield percussion muzzleloader,
which is a late Civil War era model.
If the barrel is relined/sleeved from 58 or 56 caliber to 50, it is tough to tell without a microscope:



Oops, cobweb across the muzzle, try again:



Maybe the relining for 50-70 can be seen above?

McNelly Sharps replica:



Above shows trace leading on the edge of the lands, and toolmarks in the grooves. This was after cleaning,
with not much elbow grease applied, not bad.


Lock of the "Injun Gun" on Rusty McGee's workbench, still hell for stout, same as the 50-70 Govt. that Buffalo Bill used to make his name:

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
Very cool!
 
Posts: 19091 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
RIP.

The 450-grain cast at 20:1 is pretty much the standard bullet to mimic the original government .50-70 load. Here is a link to a good article on loading for the .50-70: http://singleshotexchange.com/...the-50-70-for-a.html. If you really want to delve into the .50-70, get a copy of Croft Barker's book, "The .50-70 Shooters Handbook."

I am working on building my second "big 50," a recreation of a rolling block sporting rifle in .50-70. My first was a Shiloh Sharps Business Rifle in .50-90, which I sold because the gun, while well made, was clunky feeling to carry and shoot because the foreend was too fat. If I go for another .50-90 Sharps, it will be a C.Sharps, because their stocks are a bit trimmer, and thus have a better feel to me. If I can ever find an affordable shooter, I would love to pick up one of the .50-70 Trapdoors.


One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx
 
Posts: 3613 | Location: Eastern Slope, Colorado, USA | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
Thanks again, loud-n-boomer. beer
Plenty to digest there.
Much appreciated, again!
coffee
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
With a nudge from loud-n-boomer I have goodies on the way from Track of the Wolf:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Index.aspx

There is a nice depot of 50-70 Govt. reloading supplies there too. tu2

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1185/1



 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
The twist rate on an original 50-70 is so slow that any bullet much larger than the original 450gr will be unstable. The groove diameters are also usually so large that bullets need to be 0.515" or larger in diameter to take the rifling. For Thumper, my 1868, the Lee version of the govt bullet does fine but the slightly smaller Lyman version (515141) which casts at 0.512" won't stay on the target past 50 yds. The recently completed NOE mould for the bullet is probably the nicest version yet and can be cast either plain base or hollow base.

Thumper likes 65grs of ffg in a Starline case compressed to allow a firm crimp over the front ogive of the Lee bullet.

Jerry Liles
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 01 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
Thanks, Jerry, I'll squash a slug up to at least .525" diameter and slug Lucretia with it.
I have plenty of the Lee .515 slugs already cast.

Maybe the Lyman slug will work in the McNelly. tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
I found some FFg Shuetzen brand black powder at Keene's Kentucky Gun Depot alongside the Bluegrass Parkway near Bardstown yesterday. tu2
I have brass and reloading dies from previous smokeless play.
The Lee .515/500gr nominal cast bullets might be closer to 480-grainer,
original loads might have included 425-475. grainers?
Maybe the Lyman 425-grainer will work ...
Wads and SPG lube and 50-70 Govt. books are on the way from Track of the Wolf, snail mail USPS.

All I need to find is a spare tire without the wheel, I have some parachute cord to use as a trigger string. tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
I have all the gear I need.

Impossible to slug the bore of a 3-groove Model 1866 Trapdoor of 50-70.

Best I can do is tell you that a true .500"-diameter CEB .500/450-grain copper bullet wil slide through the bore of Lucretia Borgia.
It will slide up the muzzle of her sister Model 1866 a little way beyond the muzzle and then stops there, and I did not force it.
It may have been stopped by fouling, or the quality control was not so great at Springfield Armory in 1866-1867.

I prepared a soft lead slug to slug the bore, then realized I cannot drive it through from the breech of a Trapdoor. Eeker
Even if I could, then I could not accurately measure the 3-groove rifling. Eeker

Original specs were .500" bore and .515" groove.
450-grain bullet and 70 grains of BP.
1:42" twist, 3-groove.
Relined .58-cal barrels in my 1866 models.

I will try the .512"-diameter 20/1 lead/tin bullets first, with a rubber tire and a string,
then work up to .515"-diameter, maybe, if it all holds together on the string pull.
Otherwise, McNelly Sharps replica will go bison hunting.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
Fire in the hole!
 
Posts: 19091 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
Rip--When I had a 50-70 a number of years ago, the only brass I had was by Bell. Case capacity was limited, to say the least. I settled on a very highly compressed load of 67 grains Goex 2f. There was not even enough room left in the case for a .030 Walters wad. I had to use a wad cut from ordinary Cut-Rite wax paper. I seated the Lyman 515141 bullet so that all the grease grooves were covered. My rifle was surprisingly accurate, giving 1 1/2 inch to 2 inch groups at 100 yards. Surprisingly enough, it chronographed 1235 fps out of a 30 inch barrel.

It was a good deer killer, better on deer than my 50-90, in fact. I sold it because it ran out of accuracy somewhere around 275 to 300 yards with that short, stubby bullet. I wouldn't mind having it back, even if it was a roller.
 
Posts: 807 | Location: East Texas | Registered: 03 November 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
RIP: What's the twist in your McNelly? I have the Buffalo Arms .510 600-grain Creedmoor mold, and will fire up the pot and cast up some boolits after I have back surgery. My Husqvarna rolling block is fitted with a Green Mountain 1:24 twist barrel, and I expect it to handle the 600-grain slug very well. I believe the late David Higginbotham of Lone Star got very fine results with GM barrels and 600-650-grain bullets in .50-70.


There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
 
Posts: 14439 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
one of us
posted Hide Post
Bill,
Best I can tell with a tightly patched jag and a ball-bearing-handled cleaning rod, the McNelly Sharps replica 50-70 has a twist of 1:20",
though the barrel is only 22" long,
so the bullet from its sub-2"-long case does get at least one complete revolution in the barrel before it exits the muzzle. rotflmo
I am using 50/50 Pb/Sn solder and soft lead to melt for a 20/1 Pb/Sn alloy.
Will cast some of the Lyman (~450-grain) boolits and see what they weigh and measure.
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 


Copyright December 1997-2021 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia