Anyone here have any personal experience, or know of any verified loading data, using either of these powders in the 404J?

I would assume the loading data for either would be somewhat similar, grain for grain, to IMR 4350.

I have 16 pounds of these two powders and naturally wonder if they'd be useful in the 404. Seems like they would be, but data is scarce.

Thanks,


Tim

It seems one of my manuals has 414 listed for the 404. I can check tomorrow and let you know what manual and what they list.

they are the same powder

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
they are the same powder

Correct. Looking for data in the 404.


Tim

Hodgdons H414 and H4350 seem to be one and the same powder listed on a burn chart as H414/H4350 and are both on the same line as W760 and IMR4350.

H4350 is actually Aussie made AR2209 with a maximum charge listed as 80.0grs for 2100fps in the 404J from the ADI reloading book. For other cartridges I load for using the AR powders the ADI reloading book seems quite conservative.

The ADI reloading book is available free on their website and has loads for the 404J including for Varget powder (AR2208). All of the Hodgdon H series powders are made by ADI therefore the ADI reloading book can be used when reloading with Hodgdon, in fact the charges Hodgdon list for their powders are taken from the ADI book.

All very confusing but great powders and readily available for us lucky down under types.

It's interesting that Hodgdon lists H414 and H4350 as equal in burning speed and WW760 and IMR4350 as the same. Since H414 is WW760, that makes them all equal.
Most of the reloading manuals I have list WW760 and H414 as being slightly faster than the 4350's. However, some of the reloading manuals, in specific loadings, show H414/WW760 as working out as slower in certain calibers than IMR4350 (but usually not H4350).
Does H414/WW760 have a great lot-to-lot variation in burning speed? I have never found it to be so but I usually buy four of five pounds at a time when I can find either.

My earlier observations that H414 and H4350 are one and the same are only true in so far as burn rate. On checking the Hodgdon site H414 is a spherical powder made by a differant company than H4350 (Extreme powder). Hodgdon says similar results are obtained with H414 and H4350.

I have used IMR4350 and AR2209 (H4350) interchangeably when loading for 7mm-08, although usually the IMR powders of the same numerical designation as the Hodgdon powders are slightly faster but in this case apparently not.
For that matter Nobel No0 powder I had a quantity of was interchangeable charge for charge with IMR4350 and AR2209. Nobel powder was very good, producing consistent accurate results and was likely the powder used in the smokeless nitrocellulose Kynoch ammunition after cordite.

H414 and WW760 are almost the same powder, H4350 and H414 have similar burning rate, and for that matter IMR and H 4350 also have similar burning rates..None of this means they are interchangeable..
H414 works best in the 250 Savage, 308, 7x57, 30-06 to name a few. It works better than any 4350 in that you can simply put more H414 in anyone of those cases, thus more velocity at the about the same pressure levels.

H414 isn't a particularly good powder in the big 404 case IMO, you would have to use a filler with it..Best to stay with bulkier powder in the 404 Jefferys, IMR-4831 being the best powder for the 404 and will deliver the highest velocity, and the best accuracy in 9 out of 10 rifles..start with 90 grs. and max out at about 95, again depending on the rifle. In my 26 and 27 inch 404s I got as much as 2602 and 2653 respectively with a 400 gr. Woodleigh.

my pet load in all 404s has been 93 grs. of IMR-4831 for 2450 give or take 25 FPS depending on the rifle..

Thanks guys.

I was afraid the ball powders might leave too much air space...

I do have a fresh jug of IMR 4831...

Tarbe: I shoot several .404J and save yourself some heartburn by just shooting RL15. I have 3 .404s and they all shoot that powder great. I have shot a great variety of bullets but always 380 or 400grs. You won't be sorry. Work up to 80grs of RL15 and you'll probably be shooting over or at 2400fps. MMP

I am shooting about that much in my 404, and my 460 G&A (404J case necked up).

76gr runs about 2300. Enough to get your attention...

I have found when using H or IMR 4350 its a good idea to use 5 grs. of Dacron filler, gives me somewhat better accuracy..

But, 90 to 93 grs. of my old surplus H-4831 fills the case half way up the neck and gives me more velocity, less pressure and even better accuracy than todays H4831 or 4350..

Todays H, or IMR 4831 takes less grs. of powder and won't give you quite as much velocity and gives a bit more pressure, but it would still be my second choice in every count.

quote:

posted 13 July 2015 23:52 Hide Post
they are the same powder

yep... the same