Looking for insights or experience on either of these 2 powders with 250 gr bullets and what velocities they produce from the 20" Alaskan or Guide Gun barrels.
Or if these powders work well with 270 or 300 gr bullets.
Thanks in advance.
Glen.

I have a 24" 375 R...here are some comparisons from QL and my chrono'ed loads. I use RL-17 and 760.


20" bbl

RL-17 270-300 gr Hornady's

83 gr 2714 fs/4416 ftlbs - 100 % density/61.8 KPSI and 79 gr 2564/4380 - 97 %/60.8 K


HV-100

77 gr 2478/3677 - 100/50 K and 75 gr 2395/3820 - 100/53.3 K


75 gr CFE 223, 300 gr, 2502/4170 - 87/61.7 K


My 24"/260 PART load AND from QL (otherwise I don't post loads).

85 RL-17 AND 760 2881/4791 - 2843/4665 ~99 %(both)/61.4 and 61.9 K - 3 shot cloverleafs all touching.


HV-100 is a bit slower that RL-100 so you hit max velo/case volume BEFORE you hit max pressure but some people like that lower pressure. Los of reasons to go with the faster powders or the slower ones...your choice.

For 250 gr HV-100 is just too slow if you want top velo/energy.

Powders such as CFE223, HV-100, 760, RL-17, 4007, 2700, H 414, N 204, 4350 all have burn rates that fill lots of calibers/case volumes and work over a fairly wide of applications...you just have to pick a few and a few bullets then test them out. Every rifle, being an individual, will work a greater or lesser extent and may look great in Joe Smooze's shooter and be P***poor in your's.

I also tried CFE223, H 414 and 4350, RL-19 at the slowest end and Varget at the faster end...top end load, only 3 rounds each to chrono and see group sizes. Parts are expensive even when I buy them Direct from Nosler in Bend so I DON'T waste components...RL and 760 are both powders I've used a lot so getting a good load doesn't take climbing some mythical ladder. Sometimes experience just gets you lucky the first time.

Check out Saeeds reloading section...LOTS of good information contained in those listings.

I checked the numbers several times to make sure they were correct but I take NO RESPONSIBILITY for typo's or misprints/etc. YOU USE THESE NUMBERS AT YOUR OWN PERIL. THESE FIGURES AR FOR GENERAL INFORMATION AND COMPARISONS ONLY.

Good Hunting

Thank you very much !
Checking my old data from reloading the 20" Alaskan's it seems I mostly used Rl15. And I pretty much only loaded 270 gr Hornady bullets as my goal at the time was to just duplicate factory 270 gr ammo. Rl15 didn't do very well in the cold and it seemed to have lots of lot to lot variation.

With some of the newer powders that are more temp stable. Even tho Rl17 isn't listed as a temp stable powder. I have had good chronograph results down to 35 below F in my 6.5 Creedmoor.
I had some cans of Hybrid 100 V sitting on the shelf that I tried in other carts and thot I would try it in the 375 Ruger.
I also use a lot of H4350 which is a powder I will give a try. There is also a new Enduron powder I may try.
By and large I will stick with the 250 gr TTSX BT as long as it groups well. At least for hunting.

Yep, good stuff, thanks NONAGONAGIN.
I no longer fly by IFR with QuickLOAD.
I fly by VFR with the seat of my pants.
QuickLOAD is good. I just got tired of paying for it.

Lying between the .375 H&H and the .375 Weatherby, I never got much excited
about handloading the .375 Ruger,
since I had diddled a lot on either either side of it,
and the factory loads were so good and available by the case at my local emporium.

Now I want to work up the moderate velocity load for a 250-grain GameKing in a 20"-barreled Hawkeye, that is next on my to-do list.

Since I need to try the new RL-16 in something that will be a natural.
RL-16 may be better than H4350 for ThermoBallistic Independence, and that is saying something.
The Hornady manual shows 250-grain GMX and 270-grain InterLock having the same velocity range for a 20" barrel: 2400 to 2700 fps

In the Hornady manual, powder choices shown are a lot more in number with the 270-grainer.
Varget is shown for both bullets.
Max of 69.7 gr Varget with 250-grainer gave 2600 fps.
Max of 73.9 gr Varget with 270-grainer gave 2650 fps.
The 250gr-GMX is a long monometal with plastic tip, loaded to 3.330" COL.
The 270gr-InterLock is a cup&core flatbase loaded to shorter 3.250" COL, yet with more room for powder.

I'll try some Varget and some RL-16 loads with the 250-grain GameKing in a 20-Inch .375 Ruger Trajectory Trainer
for the .458 Win. Mag. with 400-grain HV, 2400 to 2600 fps.
Will post here.
The Varget will be a control to see how close the Hornady manual comes to my rifle, with the Sierra bullet instead of the GMX.

Then I would like to get some of the GMX and/or the Barnes TTSX up to top speed.
The Hornady GMX and Barnes TTSX 250-grainers should be pretty close to equivalent.
Maybe the gilding metal GMX would be less sticky than pure copper, but might have greater bearing surface,
so start pressure might be similar, ditto bullet length.
Maybe close to same on load data for the two bullets.
Both should be excellent varmint bullets, what with black bears and grizzly bears being varmints in Alalska.

Rip ...

I haven't tried Rl16 yet. In anything . A bunch of 65 Creed guys really like it with 130 gr and heavier bullets.

Yeah...QL is overpriced, but I'm cheep anyway, and not a lot of exterior ballistic software out there that ISN'T a bit pricey. VFR is the only way and hope the fog goes away. I ended up with R 375 basically because it was on sale and I wanted the larger Sav receiver, so 3 birds with one shot and the slick sided Ruger case fit several wildcats I wanted to play with...I tried to find a cheep RUM receiver but...nyet.

I think most of the data is algorithm generated so MUST be checked against actual/other data resources, I've ran MANY cals/combo's and ended up with spurious data...but its a "Quick" way to get beginning load data, and the fine print states that can happen.

The 2018 Hornady reloading booklet and online source stays up to date so I use it extensively for checking.

4451 looks to be an EXCELLENT powder for several large cased calibers...~100 fs over the top powders at the same pressures. Haven't found much data on it yet but haven't tried to hard either, too many other projects keeping me up at night.

I bought the first/last pound that hit this area when it first appeared...then it disappeared...now it's available again...Haven't tried it yet, now 8133 has appeared, just perfect for my upcoming 28 Nosler toy.

I like my 260 Nos Part and it produces excellent "solutions"...if I need more bullet weight I step up a cal or two...sometimes more. I want something that will turn the beasty inside out, scrape the pelt, tan it and have it on my floor when I get home...keeps my hands clean.

Good Hunting

If I can find 4451 next time I'm in town I plan to pick some up. The Hodgdon data shows that it shines for the 375 Ruger and its also useful in the 338 with 225 gr bullets. So it should find a good place in my reloading room.
I've kinda stuck to the 250 gr bullet in the 375 just to reduce the differing amount of bullets I load. Should work great on all interior game that I'll hunt here.

Yeah...a lot can be said for the K.I.S.S. principle of one rifle, one bullet...keeps the headaches to a minimum and stops the "taking to the bottle" syndrome. I have boxes of bullets that I tried and didn't quite work that end up just sitting there or being used for barrel break-in, case work or downloaded for sagerat elimination...sometimes for trade goods.

I get antsy during the winter months, find another cal I don't have and start the headaches again...AND the bullets start stacking up again...hahahahahah

Something to consider on those long cold Alaskan nights...messing about with the parameter numbers between bullet weight, velocity, barrel length, sectional density, BC, etc, helps pass the time or numbs your brain and puts you to sleep.

The neat part of this wildcatting business is being able to mix and match or do your own thing...build that "exact for a specific activity" rifle and as components have become more "precise" it is MUCH easier to do than in yesteryear.

Pick your components, develop the load, quantify and qualify the parameters and go enjoy.

I LOVE IT!!!!!

Good Hunting

My last custom build was the spend too much time thinking thing. It is a great rifle that I enjoyed. But really all it ended up equaling was a 375 Ruger Guide Gun in 9.3x64. But it cost me twice as much and didn't have a stainless receiver. And had hard to find brass.
Getting rid of it was an easy thing for me to do.
Replacing it with the above mentioned Ruger was automatic and instant.
I load the 250 gr bullets in my 375 Whelen AI also. So I don't have to have bunches of different bullets around.
Once I get it lined out accuracy wise I'll solidify all the load details so that from point blank to 500 yards the rifle , optic and ammo will all work together seamlessly. That is my goal now. What ever I need the rifle to do it is fully setup and supplied. And it and I are on very good terms so the reliability is constant.
For decades I chased around after just the perfect this or that. Now that I've had all that experience. I know what will do what. In the end it comes down to my skill with the rifle. Something I finally fully figured out with my 6.5 Creedmoor.

My 458 is my summer rifle. Bear problem solver.
My 6.5 Creedmoor is my winter rifle. Subsistence caribou and predator calling/hunting.
The 338 Win and 375 Ruger are mostly fall big game rifles or spring interior bear.
And my little 375 W.A.I. is just right for roaming around in the woods.
Easy to find common components. Hopefully I'll end up only needing 3 or 4 rifle powders

Working under VFR, I have loaded some RL-16: 71.0 to 80.0 grains, 1 grain increments, 3 rounds for each of the 10 charges.
With 250-grain Sierra GameKing at 3.330" COL, 80.0 grains seems to be about 100% fill.
Since 71.0 grains is > 85% (88.75%), it is unlikely to cause a slow-powder-underfilled-detonation, a SPUD.
I just made up that acronym, I think, and I like it, the acronym, not the kaboom of a SPUD kaboom.

Now for some token VARGET loads.

Rip ...

Hummm...chasing dreams, we all do it, constantly...the problem comes when we find it and "IT" somehow turns into a horrible nightmare or something worse. I never actually dreamed about very many rifles...the "African" rifles and some super velo, long range rat killer mostly and all the oddities that I built were because of some "something-something", one off, nobody wanted anyway, usually whatever cases I had on hand and other "scrapped" pieces and parts. I can't even PAY someone to take them off my hands now. They always shot well even the ones that scared the sh** outta the unwashed.

The 'smiths I worked for/begged jobs from just looked at me sadly and shook their heads but always did what they could to "bring me along", they knew I would never be a real "gunsmith" because I would starve...too many "wild ideas"...they were definitely prescient.

Whatever rifle/pistols you do end up with be sure to garner plenty of powder/primers/bullets and cases...past events have shown us just what the future will be with 7 billion and counting souls vying for space and eating everything in sight...hunting will soon be a "dream" that definitely turned into a nightmare...not to mention the rest of the human caused mess.


Just came across some very disturbing information...various State gov'ments are climbing in the side window by passing regulations that allow gun confiscation by any means/reasons possible due to the A.H.'s shooting up schools. This being a "county/state regulation" YOU DON'T get to vote on it...it is passed by committees, entered into law and you don't have ANY SAY IN THE MATTER...the Second amendment DOESN'T APPLY and ISN'T CONSIDERED VIOLATED...you still have the right, you just don't have any weapons to implement it...what the states are trying to do is considered "STATES RIGHTS".

There is a petition to STOP the money from the state budgets trying to be used for the confiscation process here in Oregon. Oregon is a "blue" state run by the same %*@#)* that(and still is to a large degree) ran Washington D.C. and the county for so many years. Look at what they are doing with all that money they stole.


They are not just going after the "Black" rifles, they are going after "ALL WEAPONS" and THEY DEFINE WHAT A "WEAPON" IS.

Anyway..."watch your topknot".

Good Hunting(while it lasts)

QL doesn't work well for RL-17. Surface treatment (or what it is) of this powder can't be reasonably interpreted by mathematical model/engine of QL. It comes from my experience mostly with .375 H&H and 300 gr bullets. QL shows much higher velocity (and pressure) than there really is. It is close when "tough" jacket bullets, like Norma Oryx, are used.

For example:

300 gr A-Frame - red numbers and crazy velocity in QL, fine velocity and pressure in real world.

300 gr Norma Oryx, seated to the same depth, of course the same crazy numbers in QL and over pressure in real world.

(~2590 fps with 300 gr A-Frame, ~ 2770 fps measured and sticky bolt with 300 gr Oryx, the same load, the same seating depth)

Jiri

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Working under VFR, I have loaded some RL-16: 71.0 to 80.0 grains, 1 grain increments, 3 rounds for each of the 10 charges.
With 250-grain Sierra GameKing at 3.330" COL, 80.0 grains seems to be about 100% fill.
Since 71.0 grains is > 85% (88.75%), it is unlikely to cause a slow-powder-underfilled-detonation, a SPUD.
I just made up that acronym, I think, and I like it, the acronym, not the kaboom of a SPUD kaboom.

Now for some token VARGET loads.

Rip ...

Sounds interesting. Rl 16 does show promise similar to H4350 . Being advertised as being temp stable.
I'll b very interested in your chronograph results if you post them.

IM driving a 260 partition at 3000fps with 82 gns of R17 out of a 24 inch tube if thats of any help
Daniel

That's great, thank you !
If it wasn't blowing like he'll today I would be at the range chronographing today. 40 mph gusts r a good excuse to buy a Magneto Speed, I think.
I have Rl17 loads from 78 up to 81 gr with 250 gr Sierra and TTSX BT . Both tumbled in HBN.

I finished up the loading with VARGET 65.0 to 70.0 grains 3 shots of each 1-grain increment, with the 250-grain Sierra GK.
So I have 10 charges of RL-16 and 6 charges of VARGET, 3 shots each.
I am mainly looking for a moderate velocity plinking load for the 20-incher,
but the 80-grain RL-16 load might be a good one for big varmints.
First time I have tried RL-16 in anything.
Will report.

Rip ...

Cool!

My .375 GG took its maiden voyage today. I don't have RL 16 or 17. Loaded up 300 gr Hornady RNs with 76, 78, 80 gr IMR-4350. WLRM. New Hornady brass. Very light crimp at bottom of cannelure.

2 rounds at each powder charge, it was about 55 deg, 100 yd target.

76 gr, 2360 fps 1/2"
78 gr, 2430 fps 1/8"
80 gr, 2500 fps 3/4" (just happens to = Hornady manual max charge and velocity)

ES for all three pairs were < 10 fps.

Also loaded pair of old-style 300 gr Win Silvertips with the 80 gr charge: 2576 fps, 2576 fps (yes), but they went about 1.25". Extracted effortlessly, but think I'll back the STs down to 78 gr and repeat. The STs seat deeper into the case vs the Hornady RNs.

Anyway, I couldn't be happier with this GG. With the brake it feels like a .270. Was also shooting a 8.5# .300 today, 180s @ 2900 fps, and it had alot more felt recoil.

That sounds great! I'm hoping the recoil is similar to or less than my 9.3 x 64 was.
One of the powders I will try is H4350 as its one of the main powders I use.
Samuel; I just noticed your from Dover/Foxcroft. I grew up in East Corinth.

Here is the RL-16 poop:

20" barrel on the Hawkeye Alaskan stainless rifle restocked with a Zytel "canoe paddle."



Temperature started off at 65*F and was 69*F by the time I fired 48 rounds of .375 Ruger handloads and 20 rounds of "other stuff" during cooling periods.

250-grain Sierra GameKing
New Hornady brass FL sized and primed with Federal 215 primer
COL 3.330"

80.0 grains of RL-16 >>> 2693 fps 5-yard instrumental, corrected: 2705 fps MV
only 3 shots for average, 5 fps St.dev.

Something weird happened with the starting load of 71.0 grains.
3 shots gave readings of 2070, 2073, 2067 at 5 yards.
Very low average of 2070 fps but St.dev. of only 3 fps.

1 grain increment to 72.0 and velocity jumped up to 2326, 2347, 2339. 3-shot average of 2337, St.dev. of 10 fps.

After that it was a nice linear progression to the 80-grain load, 2705 fps MV.
80.0 grains is about 99% to 100% fill, not compressed.

So I would say that 71.0 grains is too little of this powder to try again.
80.0 grains is where it starts to get good.
82.0 grains might be very close to 2800 fps MV with this varmint bullet.

All groups shot with RL-16 today were one-hole groups for 3 shots at 25 yards, with SlugHunter scope.



Sheriff's department took over the rifle range today for their periodic qualifying of deputies.
So I got special dispensation to use the 25-yard pistol range for chronographing.

65 to 70 grains of Varget was decidedly uninteresting.
That powder started off at about 2300 fps and finished at about 2500 fps with the 250-grain GameKing, and with all the air space and no filler, not accurate.

I like RL-16, it should be good with the heavier bullets too.
ThermoBallistic Independence is supposed to be better than H4350, and it might be a little faster.

The light-bullet .375 Ruger recoil was pleasant compared to the "other stuff" I was shooting while the .375 Ruger cooled.

Rip ...

Excellent data, thank you. Saturday is my day to chronograph the Rl17 and H 100 V loads I have made up for my 375 and 338. If I had more brass I would have the full spectrum loaded for those 2 powders. But I've only got 16 rounds of 375 brass until the Midway order arrives.
Thanks RIP !

5 fps std dev . That could be a great group shooting load if its exiting the barrel at the right harmonics.

This was with 20" Ruger Alaskan



84gn Rel-17.

Wow, 416 Tanzan, great load.
I am going to have to try that 250-grain TTSX with RL-16 to maximum.
Start about 76.0 grains and see if I can bust 2800 fps also.
I'll just stick to 30-06 for training wheels on the .458 Win. Mag. 400gr HV trajectory.
A 20" .375 H&H deserves to rip more.

Rip ...

Went out to the range and shot some loads with Hybrid 100 V in the 338 and some in the 375 . And did most of a workup with Rl17 250 gr bullets in the 375 Ruger yesterday. Tried several times to get chronograph readings but something was haywire.
Still, it was a good range trip. Even with winds gusting to 30. First time I've been to the range since last fall. Nice to see the snow melting.