(Edit: Bowing to political correctness, "Short Bus" has been changed to "Supersonic" regarding the ".50-70-650 (1-3/4") NFBP Supersonic" nomenclature.
This does have the added benefit of clearly distinguishing this cartridge from the .50-70-750 of SSK.)



A bit of tongue-in-cheek with the new designations:

".47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked"
Joseph Lang necked a 500 BPE (3-1/4") case down to .475-caliber in 1900 to produce the 470 Nitro Express.
Sort of like a .50-140 (3-1/4") "Sharps", even though Sharps never chambered that long .50 at all,
and certainly never "bottlenecked" it to .475-caliber.
The CIP spec 470 NE (SAAMI-ed too!) is ideal for that old Sharps/BPE performance, Nitro Express, and even able to equal the 470 Mbogo.

All kinds of fun possibilities here. East meets west.
The 470 NE in a Sharps 1874, or a Ruger No.1 made up like a Sharps?
John Amber had one made up in the early days of the Ruger No.1.
Remove the tang safety, lengthen the tang (or shorten the sight base?) and put the Soule sight there?
Etc.

Everytime I ever mentioned building a .50-140 (3-1/4") all I ever heard was groans of "Don't do it."
Even the guy who famously did it on a Ruger No.1 with D'Arcy Echols building it, told horrendous tales of the forend falling off with the first shot, ETC!

And the guys who actually do shoot them seem to be using the 50-70-type lightweight bullets of 450 to 500 grains!

Well kiss my grits y'all naysayers!

Let's just reduce the caliber to .475 and stick with the huge variety of .475-cal/500-grain bullets,
better BC and SD for 500-grainers.
The .475-caliber Hornady XTP handgun bullets will do for plinking and squirrel-barking loads.
Custom VLD-Heavy bullets and cast bullets too.
The possibilities for revitalizing the tired, old 470 NE are many!

Then there is the ".50-70-650 NFBP Supersonic."
This one is under construction now, on a Remington Rolling Block.

I will use smokeless powder to get velocity up enough to stabilize the 650-grain Hoch "Nose Pour," plain-base bullet in a 1:24" twist.

I'll save those stubby .510-.515-cal./450-grainers for BP loads in the standard 50-70 Govt with 1:42" or 1:26" or 1:24" or 1:18" twist barrels.

The 50-70 NFBP Supersonic will be throated as needed, otherwise just the standard 50-70 Govt chamber and cartridge case will do.
I could not call it a Nitro For Blackpowder Express, because of the heavier bullet, at not quite "express train" velocity.
Hence the "Supersonic" instead of "Express" nomenclature.
It is a short cartridge.
And the other one above is long-necked, i.e., Lang Necked.

I cannot talk about this sacrilege on the BPCR forum, since I am using smokeless powder.
Though who knows, maybe some BP is in the cards too, and I'll be able to tell the BP-righteous sootsayers about these too, someday ...

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

SSK makes 50-70-750 barrels for TC Contenders. There is a fair amount of load data out there.

Mike,

Thanks for the reply.
If you have any data for the .50-70-750, Whisper-style "Subsonic" loading from SSK, please shoot.

I have a photo of some dummies:



IIRC, SSK used a 1:8" twist barrel for that .50-70-750, and velocities are less than 1000 fps?

My "Supersonic Bullet" loading is meant to be supersonic and stabilized in a 1:24" barrel.
Will require smokeless powder, I reckon, impossible to get the needed velocity with that devilish BP.

I will go play with the McGowen Barrels twist calculator ...

Meanwhile, I have a bunch of old B.E.L.L. 470 Nitro Express brass
and over a thousand .475 bullets of various sorts to start working with on the .47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked.
Here is a sectioned B.E.L.L. 470 NE case,
and one of those B.E.L.L. .475/500-gr RN solids,
nickel-plated steel jacket plus copper drive bands:



And a GSC .475/500-gr HV thrown in just to make a point:



Another semi-point (Barnes TSX 500-grainer) can be found amongst this dirty dozen, and a North Fork 500-grain Cup-Point too:



from Accurate Molds:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/index.php



Twist calculator:

http://mcgowenbarrel.com/twist2/

Well, that is the Lang and the Short of it, for now.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
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You probably already know most of this but SSK has several different .500 and .510 variations in the subsonic range intended for precision suppressed fire. The .510 Whisper is based on a short 338 Lapua case for 750-950 gr bullets up to 1050 fps in about 1:9 twist barrels. There are several others that are similar and SSK will also do about any of their .510 cartridges (50-70, 50 Alaskan etc) with fast twist barrels for the .heavier .510 bullets above subsonic ranges. I asked JD once why he did not use any of the rimmed .510 handgun cartridges for these and he did not want to talk about it. Some of his designs are probably intended more for bolt action rifles. The 50 Alaskan will work in a TC Encore or similar. The 50-70-750 is the only one that I know for sure will work in a TC Contender.

I will have to come back to this later but most people run out of recoil tolerance before they max out the potential of the 50-70-750 in a 14" Contender pistol.

RIP: Eager to see results with the .50-70. I also have a Green Mountain barrel on a re-heat treated Swedish rolling block.

Bill,

The ".50-70 NFBP Supersonic" will be familiar to you from the BPCR forum,
but since I have gone over to the smokeless side with this,
I dare not mention it as a BPCR loading again.

Since George Armstrong Custer was "Headstrong" instead of "Armstrong" at The Battle of the Little Big Horn,
it is fitting to build a rifle to resemble Custer's .50-70 Govt Remington Rolling Block sporter,
chambered for my ".50-70-650 NFBP Supersonic" rifle.



This shall be done!
It is under construction and will be shooting before the .47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked,
which has not made it off the drawing board yet.

Terry Wieland's .40-70 Sharps Straight, "Creedmoor-style" Ruger No. 1, circa 2007:

http://www.terrywieland.com/Creedmoor.htm



John T. Amber's .45-70 Govt "Creedmoor-style" Ruger No. 1, from 1968, in time to make the cover of the GUN DIGEST 1969:

XXX ... looking for picture ...

Ross Seyfried's 470 Nitro Express Ruger No. 1, circa 1989, a Hamilton Bowen gunsmithed rebore of a .458 Win Mag Ruger No. 1:

GUNS & AMMO article March 1990 ... Book review: Fine magazine.














A "novel" 470 NE Ruger No. 1:



"Ruger No. 1 .470 nitro express caliber rifle. Ruger No. 1 with custom barrel in .470 nitro express by Obermeyer. Complete with Picatinny rail and 21st. Century express sight. Very good condition."
http://www.gunsinternational.c...23615%231093%231%23n

Stay tuned for some .50-70 Short Bus shooting results, sooner than later, later for the .47-140 Lang Necked.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
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The first-ever highly customized Ruger No. 1 from the Sturm Ruger factory was a .45-70 Govt.
It was whipped up in a few months to make the deadline for the cover of GUN DIGEST 23rd Ed. 1969.
("Ruger's Reactionary Rifle" by Roger Barlow, about the Ruger No. 1 born in 1966,
before the M77 of 1968, was the lead article in the 1967 21rst Ed. of GUN DIGEST)

Book review excerpts are presented below for this fine book:









Back to the .47-140 Lang Necked:

Ross Seyfried quit at about 2350 fps with 500-grainers in his Ruger No. 1 470 NE.
But the 470 NE has a slightly larger gross case capacity than 470 Mbogo,
which is easily capable of 2700 fps with 500-grainers:



The C.O.L. is about a quarter inch longer in a 470 NE (SS or DR) versus the 470 Mbogo
"magazine rifle" being limited by a 3.8" box.

The 470 NE C.O.L. could be increased by customizing the leade-only throat,
zero-parallel-sided free-bore, of the standard 470 NE.
Add some free-bore to the chamber and voila!
The .47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked is born, another RIPpoff.

Seating the bullet to 0.250" longer in the .47-140 Lang Necked (C.O.L. of 4.248")
yields an increase of 11.2 grains water in net case capacity
versus the 470 Mbogo net with the same bullet and 3.750" C.O.L.

.47-140 Lang Necked
@ 4.248" C.O.L.: 150.4 + 11.2 = 161.6 grains effective gross,
Like having a 3.5"-long case and still leaves a caliber-length of bullet inside the Lang neck.

470 Mbogo Short Necked
@ 3.750" C.O.L.: 148.1 grains effective gross

A 13.5 grain advantage in net case capacity for the .47-140 Lang Necked.

We customarily limit ourselves to 2500 fps with 500-grainers in the 470 Mbogo,
though I have gotten over 2700 fps in a 25" barrel
with the stubby .475/500-gr RNSPs.

The .47-140 Lang Necked will easily do the same, with ease, at lower pressure, than in the 470 Mbogo.
I know a Ruger No. 1 is stout enough,
and the brass is too,
so the limiting factors will be my shoulder and bullet integrity, velocity windows.

This .47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked will be flexible indeed.

I'll use the .475/325 & 400-gr Hornady XTP as varmint bullets, at about 1800 fps to simulate the halcion loads of a NFB Express.

Any jacketed and monometal .475/500-grainers at 2150 to +2500 fps for full Nitro Express and BEYOND!

The Accurate Molds 530-grain-GC at up to 2200 fps in Lyman #2 alloy ought to be peachy.

Also, there is that special Seyfried load to be considered:
570-grain Ballard paper-patched, cast bullet with 50 grains of H4198 and Dacron filler >>> 1500 fps
Better than a .50-140 (3-1/4") Sharps Straight!
But that would require learning how to paper patch.

My BBK-02 470 Mbogo has a 1:16" twist McGowen barrel
My M70 470 Capstick has a 1:10" twist McGowen barrel.
My Merkel 140A 470 NE has a C.I.P. 1:21" twist Krupp Stahl barrel.

I need to decide, 1:16" or 1:20" twist for a .47-140 Lang Necked?

If I go with 1:16", I already have a shop mule to work up loads for results near identical:





Well that settles the twist.
Best compromise for use of jacketed and cast.
Go fast with jacketed, go slow with cast.
Now for barrel length and contour.

Is this going to be a "Business" rifle with round contour,
or an "Olde Reliable" with full octagon,
or a "Long Range" with half-octagon, half-round?

And the sighting equipment?

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Here is a book review of R.L. Wilson's great book, published in 1996, I got mine direct from Ruger in 1997:











Caption below goes with picture above:







Here's a langneck for AULD LANG SYNE:

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

Back to the short of it: .50-70-650 NFBP Supersonic, the original Big-Bore Short Magnum

I looked at my bullet weight and it is 680 grains (30:1 lead/tin), not 650-grains, but close enough for nomenclature purposes.
Bullet length is 1.405".

Using the McGowen Barrels twist rate calculator (linked above), and assuming a sp.gr. of 11.3,
only 1275 fps is needed to stabilize in my 1:24" twist.

If lead alloy bullet sp.gr. is 11.0, 1325 fps is needed for 1:24" twist.

I am hopeful I can load the bullet to ~2.675" to 2.685" C.O.L. in the 1.750"-long case, and still get it to clear the Rolling Block hammer nose to chamber:



If so:

Here are some powders to try, I reckon the Pedersoli action can handle 28,000 psi since that is about what the factory .45-70 load pressure,
approved for that.

H322:



H4198:



Accurate 5744:



Hodgdon Lil'Gun:



Below .45-70 (30" HEAVY octagon) Pedersoli "Buffalo" Model has been rebarreled to .50-70 (28" Not-so-heavy octagon),
was getting its sights installed and uninstalled today,
will be getting barrel gloss blued next, not matte-browned:



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Back again with a couple of minutes...

Trail Boss gets used for a lot of these kinds of cartridges. Here is one source of 50-70 data in the TC Contender.

https://www.loaddata.com/Cartr...in-SSK-Contender/472

Mike,

I am not a subscriber to that Wolfe loaddata site.

I am going to start with 35.3 grains of H322.
Predicted is 1195 fps and 16,167 psi with 680-grainer.
That is a 77% volumetric fill.
Will use filler too.
I will try both 2.520" C.O.L. and 2.675" C.O.L. with that starting load.
Throat is going to be close on the longer one,
but I have a throating reamer of proper diameter to extend free-bore if needed.
PSFB currently is 0.512" diameter and 0.200" long, 1*30' leade.
This is a .510-grooved barrel of 1:24" twist, 28" long.
I will work up by half-grain increments until the bullets stop keyholing.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

Wow RIP, you bring back some memories. I remember getting that issue of G&A in the mail 27 years ago and dreaming of a No1 in 470.

I don't know if this is any help, but my 510 whisper with 1.875" cases love blue dot with 750 grain amaxs and should have "about" the same under bullet case volume as your 1.75" 50-70 with 650s.

Here's what I've got from the first 85 shots:
750 grain AMAX, 3.600" OAL, CCI 200, Norma case, 1:9" twist, 20" barrel.

17.0 767fps
18.0 815fps
19.0 865fps
20.0 938fps
21.5 974fps
23.0 1037fps
23.4 1052fps
24.0 1081fps

I settled on 21.0 grains with the now 16" barrel for about 970fps to stay a bit away from transonic speeds shooting suppressed. Blue Dot gives a nice pressure curve that drops off abruptly after about 8" and with 100% powder burn. Cutting the barrel to 10" would (per quickload) yield the same velocity but more muzzle pressure as the bullet speed peaks then starts dropping again due to friction!

Bob

I thought I had a copy of the SSK 50-70 load data but can't find it. I have been thinking of getting one for 25 + years but it keeps getting pushed down the priority list by other ideas and I have this particular niche partially covered with a 500 S&W and a 50 BMG. While browsing last night I also was reminded of the 500 Jurras Howdah which was based on 500 NE brass.

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:
... I remember getting that issue of G&A in the mail 27 years ago and dreaming of a No1 in 470 ...
Bob

I was sweating it out in Tallahassee FL when I notebooked that one, just before I moved back to AK.
Have since had 3 different 470s (mentioned above). But that Ruger No. 1 470 NE itch is still here.
To auld lang syne!

Looks like the "novel" 470 NE on a Ruger No. 1 Obermeyer (Boots himself, or just one of his barrels?)
could have been circa 1990 also.
That monster-sized red-dot on Picatinny might have been state of the art at the time, eh?





I think my Ruger No. 1 470 NE will be a wee bit more svelte than that one, though I applaud the audacity!

Thanks for adding the Blue Dot load data.
If I ever go subsonic with a fast-twist barrel, I'll make use of it.
Lil'Gun powder is also a 100% burner for the supersonic slow-twister.
Sort of like loading a shotgun shell with a lead one-piece combo-wad-cup-projectile.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
Rip

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scott:
I thought I had a copy of the SSK 50-70 load data but can't find it.

What else is out there, published? Is the Wolfe loaddata site pretty comprehensive for the .50-70-750?

I have been thinking of getting one for 25 + years but it keeps getting pushed down the priority list by other ideas and I have this particular niche partially covered with a 500 S&W and a 50 BMG.
Excuses, excuses, tsk, tsk ...

While browsing last night I also was reminded of the 500 Jurras Howdah which was based on 500 NE brass.

Was Lee Jurras wildcatting in Shelbyville, Indiana when I was a ninth and tenth-grader in highschool there in that town, 1968 - 1970?
I was merely an embryonic gunnut at the time, or I would have known more about such exotica.
We also had Sandy Allen, tallest woman in the world, a year behind me at Shelbyville HS.

.500 Howdah Jurras: A Shorter bus than the .50-70-650 Supersonic





http://www.municion.org/Jurras/500Jurras.htm





.475 Howdah Jurras:






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RIP, you're on fire, man!

Bill,

You are too kind.

If you can ever see your way to shooting some smokeless, take a look at that Hodgdon Lil'Gun!

100 % burn with all loads tried in QL, and an incredible 45.7% thermodynamic/ballistic efficiency,
and a maximum load (less than 28,000 psi)
that fills the case only 65 % .
Will require filler for best uniformity/accuracy.

I will start with 26.3 grains Lil'Gun for 1198 fps MV predicted, and only 16,874 psi.
Hey! Supersonic starting load, if QuickLOAD is anywhere close to reality.

I could use about any bullet weight and C.O.L. possible in my rifle (twist 1:24", 0.200" PS-free-bore length) with that powder charge,
and work up from there.

The ".50-70-650 NFBP Supersonic" fever is spiking.
Yep, I am feverish, thanks.

Just to cool off from that, so as not to get brain damage, I have to sip on a Langneck now and then.





Above is one of the most accurate rifles I own, a .500 A-Square, my first "Big Fifty."
That was a simple Ruger No. 1 build.
It would be an easy pattern for a 470 NE build, a good one for my purposes,
so long as one does not require a reflexive pinky finger extension when shouldering the rifle.
It is not actually what can be called "bespoke."
LOP is adjusted with slip-on pad of choice, rubber or leather +/- high-density foam pad insert,
since the Bell & Carlson stock is so short.
Sure makes it nice on the shoulder, without adding weight of lead or mercury:
Doubled recoil pads, slip-on over integral pad.
Muzzlebrake is screw-off. Un-braked barrel length is 27", braked is 29".
Muzzle diameter: 1.000"
Weight of rifle as shown above, minus the sling and unloaded, is 11-lbs and 2-oz.

A lighter barrel is possible for the smaller-caliber .47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked, but not too light.
My .500 A-Square is muzzle-heavy, balancing at a point 5" forward of the action,
But that action is 4.5" shorter than a bolt action, so it is about like a bolt action balancing 1/2" forward of the action.
Not bad.
I'll try to balance the .47-140 Lang Necked at a point 4" forward of the action, and make it a comfortable 10-pounds even.
Barrel weight calculator coming up.
Twist rate is settled, 1:16", McGowen 8-groove.

Hey, at least I will use a more svelte Picatinny quarter rib on mine than was used on the Obermeyer-barreled one.


The Creedmoor/Soule ladder peep and a globe front sight are still being considered.
However, I have settled on round barrel, not octagon.

Maybe I will get my Ruger No. 1 action lightly scroll-engraved and satin-nickeled, or French-greyed, to harmonize with the bead-blasted stainless barrel.
It will be a sweet accent to the synthetic stock too, maybe grey instead of black paint.


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Below is a brief excerpt from the 7th Edition of CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD, 1993 publication, by Frank C. Barnes (1918-1992, R.I.P.)/Edited by Mike Bussard, page 207,
for book review purposes
Book Review: Great book.
I have all 15 editions, first published 1965, last one, 15th, published 2016.
Waiting now for the 16th.
Cartridges come and go in the listings of COTW, I doubt this cartridge will ever be dropped due to size limits on the book.
Included first in the 7th edition of 1993, it is still there in the 15th edition of 2016.



Those guys (Bob Scheidmiller and D'Arcy Echols) turned a .50-140 (3-1/4") Winchester/Sharps cartridge into a ".510 Nitro Express."
The action they used?:



Turning the 470 Nitro Express into the .47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked is sort of the converse,
so maybe it should be built to look like a Sharps 1874 or a Winchester 1885 High Wall?

W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell used a Winchester 1885 High Wall in Africa.
Page 16 of Bell of Africa, Karamojo's description of the rifle in question:

"Meeting one day a Greek trader at a common camp, we compared rifles. That of the Greek was a Winchester single shot black powder .450 falling block with a long, taper cartridge. (My emphasis.) Not exactly so modern a weapon as the beautiful Fraser .303, but still an accurate, hard-hitting gun, and above all a sure extractor. I offered an exchange after ascertaining that the count of ammunition was roughly that of the .303. Unfortunately all the cartridges had that abomination, the hollow copper-point bullet. But I knew nothing of this at the time, and as the Greek seemed dazzled with the .303, a trade was soon affected."

Maybe the original Sharps factory rifles were never chambered for the 45-120 3-1/4", but they might have been planning to do it before they failed.
Whatever, there was such a cartridge so named, "Sharps," that other rifle makers got to glory in with their rifles. That included Winchester.
Like a dog rolling on a dead animal to apply perfume.
Eau de Sharps

COTW 5th Edition it was, in 1985 (Frank C. Barnes, edited by Ken Warner), that I referred to.
Excerpts from this book are presented for a book review.
Book review: Good book. It appears to be reliable on this issue, and does not contradict anything you might find in Frank Sellers' book Sharps Firearms.





Another book I borrowed from above gets full reference now, for a picture of what Bell's ".450 Winchester" might have looked like.
The Winchester Book by George Madis.
Book review: It is a great book, all 654-plus pages of it, first published in 1961, and my autographed-by-author "1 of 1000" edition was printed in 1985. I probably found that brand-new copy of it at the old location of Mountain View Sports before they moved downtown, in Anchorage, AK.
Pictures of a couple of 1885 Winchesters from the chapter "The Single Shot Model" are excerpted here for review purposes:



Above, from page 254 of Madis, is a most likely twin to Karamojo's ".450 Winchester" chambered in .45-125 Winchester.

But of course there were lots of other chamberings of "long, taper" .45-caliber rifles,
including British BPE and American Sharps cartridges of all sorts in the 1885 Winchester.
Madis also has a picture of a "45/3-1/4-Inch Sharps Straight" Model 1885 on page 256:



The McNelly Carbine below is a .50-70 Govt. with 22" barrel of 1:18" twist.
It is a Cimarron Firearms Co./Chiappa of Italy replica of the percussion Sharps 1859 converted to centerfire, used by the Texas Rangers,
and Glen Campbell in TRUE GRIT.
But the groove is .512", .504" bore, and the throat is tight.

Alas, the .50-70-650 Supersonic requires .510-groove and about 0.200" of parallel-sided free-bore.
That 1:18" twist, or a 1:20" twist would have been sweet,
but I am optimistic about tests of the 1:24" twist on my Rolling Block,
which resides now at the Gunsmith Shop and Spa for Wayward Guns.



The Pedersoli replica Sharps 1874 Long Range model shown above is available in .50-90 (2-1/2") Sharps Straight.
Same model comes as .50-70 Govt.
Both use 1:26" twist, 34"-long barrels, .512-groove/.504-bore.
Also vailable in .45-70, .45-90, and .45-120, all with .458-groove/.450-bore, 1:18" twist, 34"-long barrels.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY

Thanks for this very interesting to read post.

Bill, welcome, my pleasure, thank you!

Neat as those antiques are, I reckon the Ruger No. 1 is the way to go.

Member prof242's Ruger No. 1 in 400/.395 NE 3-Inch (above) is an excellent model for a .47-140 Lang Necked,
and a Ruger No. 1 would make a great .50-70-650 Supersonic also.
I am still sweating over whether 1:24" twist is fast enough for that Rolling Block build.
if a Ruger No. 1 ever becomes a .50-70-650 Supersonic, I will have to get a 1:20" twist for that.

Alas, the Ruger No. 1 is just barely too small for a 20 Gauge 3.5".
I think I am going to have to rebarrel a Sharps 1874 to 20 Gauge 3.5" Ex Purgatorio,
fully rifled barrel, a real slug gun.

THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
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480 Ruger/.475 Linebaugh Ruger No. 1
7-1/4 lbs, dry/empty rifle weight
22" barrel length
1:18" Twist:

Re-chamber to 470 NE?
As long as the factory-installed pins and screws for the quarter rib are not so deep as to provide venting of the 470 NE chamber to the heavens.

Yes, it would be about as nifty as a 7-pound NULA .416 Rigby, or a 6-pound Ross Seyfried .416 Hoffman/Remington.
It would make a nice carbine to go with the rifle in .47-140 Lang Necked.
Thus, a pair of Ruger No. 1s in .47-140 Lang Necked.
Like a pair of Sharps, carbine and rifle, such as both of these re-chambered to .50-140 (3-1/4") Straight:


THE FEW THE PROUD THE 395 FAMILY
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Killing time, waiting for the .50-70-650 Supersonic.
Originally thought my barrel was a .500"-bored one,
but a .4995" pilot was too tight, so a .4985" was ordered.
And that one had to be polished a bit to work.
So my barrel bore is estimated to be about 0.4983"?

The groove diameter of the barrel is supposed to be .510".
I will slug it after it is built and ready to shoot, to see if there are any other surprises.

For book review purposes, here is an excerpt from the GUN DIGEST 33RD EDITION, 1979.
The excerpt is from a short article by Robert Sherwood entitled: SLUG, MIKE, MATCH
Book Review: As always with GUN DIGEST, an excellent resource.





The most interesting part of this excerpt was the part about measuring bullets with odd numbers of grooves.
That would be the case with three-grooved barrels of the Second Allin Conversion Trapdoor .50-70 Govt rifles,
or with the 5R rifling (thanks to Boots Obermeyer) on some modern rifles.

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I reckon the block used for measuring a 3-groove-barrel slug would have to be cut with a 60-degree angle
instead of the 36-degree angle shown for measuring a 5-grooved-barrel slug.
Then apply the proper triggernometry functions to calculate.

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The .50-70-650 Supersonic is completed,
She is a re-barreled Pedersoli Rolling Block.
She has been reconstructed to resemble Custer's sporter,
but she differs in two regards:
1. Instead of a forend tip of pewter or German silver with forearm attached by a screw to the barrel,
mine has a glass-bedded forearm with single band around the barrel and forearm.
2. Instead of the flat-top receiver ring usual on sporters about 1875, mine is rounded, like the original military No. 1 Rolling Block.

I will travel to the "Gunsmith Shop and Spa for Wayward Rifles" in about 12 hours to pick her up,
then will get her to pose for a picture before she breaks Mach 1 with 650-grainers.
So far she has only been test-fired with a 459-grain cast bullet with 25.5 grains of Accurate 5744, a supersonic light-bullet load,
i.e., a Nitro For BlackPowder Express load, a NFBPE load.


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Eagerly awaiting photos ...

She has a really nice, light (2-pound-or-less, like about 30 ounces), crisp, single-stage trigger.
The sights are well aligned with where the bullets hit the dirt berm,
in the back of the Gunsmith Shop and Spa for Wayward Guns.
Weighing in at 9#-12oz (9.75 pounds),
with a lively, perfect balance that is much better than a fence post,
I present the .50-70-650 Supersonic:





I'd say the brief stay at The Gun Spa was quite rejuvenating.
She lost 2#-2oz!
The 28" barrel is 2" shorter and considerably slimmer outside, and .50-bore instead of .45-bore.
Rough & Ready rear plus Beach front combo sights are lighter too.
She was formerly a 30" fat-barreled .45-70 Govt that weighed 11#-14oz with tang & globe sights:



More of the rejuvenated rifle:







What is this? Some red Dye-Chem needing cleaning?:









Barrel has been fouled by five NFBPE loads with 459-grain lead bullets, the once-fired cases:



I will clean it and break it in further with the 680-grain Hoch bullets and the .510/535-grain S&H Brass FN bullets.
Maybe that will polish the tool marks off the lands.
She will chamber all these:



What is this? A booger of forearm bedding on the right side of the R&R rear sight?:



That should not be too hard to pick off, with a fingernail.





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Ordered on 6-5-2017
Arrived on 6-21-2017
after just a first pass impulse internet order,
I am sure I can find something else I need at
www.accuratemolds.com
This one is for 470 NE [aka .47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked] a .477/530-grainer, gas-checked:





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So far:

The Rough & Ready combo rear sight plus the Beach combo front sight: Will report on benchrest performance.
I like it so far after just 3 shots offhand at a dirt berm in the backyard at The Gunsmith Shop and Spa for Wayward Guns.

I think I am going to have to but a Beach on my .47-140 (3-1/4") Lang Necked rifle also, aka 470 NE Ruger No. 1.
But will have to think twice about the R&R combo rear sight there.
It goes where the Picatinny/quarter rib goes.
Maybe two-pice Weaver bases fore and aft of the R&R?

www.montanavintagearms.com

Front combo, Beach:

Rear combo, Rough & Ready:



Most commonly spelled "Beach" but even Hallowell spells it both ways: Beach/beech

http://www.hallowellco.com/bee...tion_front_sight.htm

"Beach Combination Front Sight"

Fine bead covered with protective ring:



Fine bead folded down, exposing the ordinary blade:



The fine bead in position:



"Beach Combination Sight - A type of front sight, hinged, to show either an ordinary bead or a very fine bead necessarily encircled by a protective ring."



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Track of the Wolf's version: "Beach's front sight"

I guess designed by Mr. Beach?



"Beach's Front Sight Blank, steel base":
"This replica of Beach's front sight copies the post Civil War front sight found on many fine single shot and lever action rifles. The blued steel base has a .379" dovetail, .082" deep, .670" wide. The brass leaf cams over a spring, forward to show an open sight post, back to show a globe with pin head bead. Imported from Italy.
"The blade sight will stand about .400" above the plane of the barrel. The bead of the globe sight will stand about .480" above the plane of the barrel."

https://www.trackofthewolf.com...px/875/1/FS-DP-BEACH


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"Oregon Barrel Company" made the barrel of the .50-70-650 Supersonic.
A .58-caliber lead roundball made a nice slug.
It slugs 0.510" in the grooves.
The bore diameter is a little tighter than the expected .500", but I am sure it will do.
My Hoch (nose-pour) bullets weigh 680-grains when cast of 30:1 lead/tin alloy, and will be sized to .511".
A harder alloy might be closer to 650 grains,
but I am going to try to make do with current batch of bullets ... for now!

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Just a little tweak to the plan:



Yep, Bob Scheidmiller and D'Arcy Echols turned a .50-140 (3-1/4") Winchester/Sharps cartridge into a ".510 Nitro Express" about 1990,
first showed up in COTW in the 1993 edition.
D'Arcy was just getting started about then.
He does not brag much, certainly not about that episode.
But seems like it will never vanish from COTW, memorialized forever.

NE brass was scarce back then, but Bob had a bunch of 50-140-3.25" brass.

Along those lines, 470 NE being very plentiful now,
I just thought about running a 470 NE case into a .50-90 Sharps 2.5" die and see what happens.
Might need a new reamer for this one.
It might be an easy one to fire-form and then reload with dies on hand,
use a .50-70-Govt FL sizing die as a neck sizer.

".50-470 NE"
or
".50-145 Lang Straight Sharps Thin-Rimmed Nitro Express 3.2-Inch":
How to stamp the barrel?

Rip
.