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Proof 1200 BAR
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Refernce 12 ga; 2 3/4"

What is a Proof rating of 1200 BAR equivilent to in a typical american nomenclature? i.e. 1 1/4 oz 3 1/2 dram for example??

EZ
 
Posts: 2382 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
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I did a little further research on this and 1200 BAR is about 17,400 PSI.
Looks like SAAMI limits 12 ga. 2 3/4" -3 " loads to 11,500 PSI.
I think I am good to shoot express loads in this SXS.

EZ
 
Posts: 2382 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Proof rating 1200 bar is non standard.

Standard CIP ratings are:

For 12/60 to 12/70 it is 930 bar
From 12/73 to 12/89 it is 1320 bar

CIP TDCC are online: https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/t...&cartridge_type_id=7

Jiri
 
Posts: 1729 | Location: Czech Republic | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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It is just what is engraved / stamped on the barrel (1200 BAR). A 1986 vintage SXS.

quote:
Originally posted by Jiri:
Proof rating 1200 bar is non standard.

Standard CIP ratings are:

For 12/60 to 12/70 it is 930 bar
From 12/73 to 12/89 it is 1320 bar

CIP TDCC are online: https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/t...&cartridge_type_id=7

Jiri
 
Posts: 2382 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
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I’d assume it means they proofed the gun with a 1200 Barr proof load.

Proof loads are always over standard pressure.

Means that you should be safe using standard ammo as long as it’s still in proof. No more or less.
 
Posts: 6366 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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Thanks (makes sense).

With SAAMI max loads being 11,500 psi (752 BAR; 2 3/4" 12 ga.)that should be a fair safety factor.

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I’d assume it means they proofed the gun with a 1200 Barr proof load.

Proof loads are always over standard pressure.

Means that you should be safe using standard ammo as long as it’s still in proof. No more or less.
 
Posts: 2382 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by eezridr:
It is just what is engraved / stamped on the barrel (1200 BAR). A 1986 vintage SXS.

quote:
Originally posted by Jiri:
Proof rating 1200 bar is non standard.

Standard CIP ratings are:

For 12/60 to 12/70 it is 930 bar
From 12/73 to 12/89 it is 1320 bar

CIP TDCC are online: https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/t...&cartridge_type_id=7

Jiri


I wrote what I wrote and that is "non standard". Manufacturers used and still use higher proof ratings as sign "our guns are stronger than others" for marketing purposes. For example Fabarm still use this: http://www.fabarm.com/web_eng/...e-dettaglio-1630.asp

Your shotgun will handle any 2 3/4" shell easy.

Jiri
 
Posts: 1729 | Location: Czech Republic | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Right;.
It is just math; one bar (barometric pressure at sea level) is 14.5 pounds per square inch. In Europe and England, they had to establish laws to keep people honest, I assume.
Note that the US has no proof laws; each maker is free to make them however they see fit.
You never hear of them blowing up though, do you?
 
Posts: 13335 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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I think they do need to be proofed if exported?

In any case, I'd be more than happy to trade proving houses for our plaintiff's Bar...
 
Posts: 6366 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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I have shot Browning superposed shotguns for decades that were made back in the 50's and early 60's and they were are made in Belgium.
I do not see a proof rating on any of them but they were for the American market.
I would like to see an FN clone sold in Europe and note if there are proof marks on them.
I have shot pretty high pressure loads in the "Supers" without a hitch.
I have noted in the past that American made doubles are stronger than European counterparts but it is just reading. I can not confirm.
Historically it has been noted the strength of the Winchester 21. It is a Chunk of metal!
I have a Beretta SO5 with 3" chambers that weighs over 9 lbs. You do not want to carry that gun except to a different shooting station.
Thanks for weighing in on the subject.
At heart on SXS I am an old FOX fan.

EZ
 
Posts: 2382 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Every (registered) firearm here must have CIP proof house marks. It doesn't mean you will read pressure rating on that. It says it is OK with CIP standards (I posted above).

I have for example custom made pistol with two barrels. One in .45 ACP and second one in .460 Rowland. Because of .460 Rowland is not CIP approved caliber, it is proofed in this way (they told me):

Gunmaker or owner give proof house standard loaded rounds, they will heat ammo to calculated elevated temperature to raise pressure by 25 percent (I am not sure here what numbers exactly) and will proof it with that. After that, you got certificate whitch says: "Maximum load is with this bullet with xx grams of that powder and this COAL and you can't go over". If you would like to see certificate, I have to find it and copy it.

But for pistol gunmaker did it (gave them ammo). I am going to import 585 HE rifle from USA so I think I will have to give them few rounds for proofing too.


Jiri
 
Posts: 1729 | Location: Czech Republic | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Here is what has been posted on the Browning/Miroku website in regards ability and proofing of Miroku, Browning and Winchester shotguns (all made by Miroku in Japan) fitted with screw in chokes. I have a 1984 Miroku O/U with 70mm chambers and Invector chokes in which I have used high performance steel shot loads without any issues at all. I don't see any proofing marks on the Miroku and no Fleur-de-Lys. We don't require proofing of firearms in NZ.
The pressure conversion is my addition.


All hunting or sporting shotguns (over-and-under or semi-auto guns) by Browning, Winchester and Miroku fitted with the original chokes (Invector, Steel Invector Plus, Stainless steel Invector Plus, Teague, Briley, Midas, Diamond, Signature chokes) can fire "high performance" steel shot cartridges.

Tested at the Liège test bench (high performance 1370 bars) in accordance with European law on the use of steel shot

(1370 bars = 19,870 psi)
 
Posts: 2941 | Location: Nelson, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I think they do need to be proofed if exported?

In any case, I'd be more than happy to trade proving houses for our plaintiff's Bar...


Technically, they must be 'in proof' to be sold. If they are not in proof, they may be submitted to the proof house for re-proofing. If they pass this proof test they will be marked with current proof stamps.
 
Posts: 816 | Location: S. E. Arizona | Registered: 01 February 2019Reply With Quote
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