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A semantical journey to find the birthdate of Jesus Login/Join 
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Picture of Big Wonderful Wyoming
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I watched a neat video on youtube made by a historian that makes interesting charts and maps about the birthdate of Jesus.

Looks like we are about 3-10 years off on our calendar and it is actually 2025 or 2032.

As he was most likely born sometime between 10-3 BC.

Thought it was interesting, if nothing else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NdQVtzjckA
 
Posts: 7623 | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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A good one, just when was he born, and when did he die?

From what I heard, the Catholic Church gave up on that, and just kept Easter and Christmas where they are.

I am going to make the claim, that firstly we have forgotten how important the spring and winter solstice were. In the pre electrical age, solstices defined the beginning of the growing season, and the end of winter. The astronomical measurements of these events are found over all cultures, in all time periods.

I do not believe it is a coincidence that Easter and Christmas fall on the spring and summer solstices. I do not believe Christ was born or died on the solstices, but that the real dates were "adjusted" to coincide with the astronomical events.

I don't mind, lets celebrate the birth and resurrection of our Savior and not get wrapped up on dates. The events matter, the exact dates don't.
 
Posts: 1195 | Registered: 10 October 2005Reply With Quote
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I do not believe it is a coincidence that Easter and Christmas fall on the spring and summer solstices. I do not believe Christ was born or died on the solstices, but that the real dates were "adjusted" to coincide with the astronomical events.

I don't mind, lets celebrate the birth and resurrection of our Savior and not get wrapped up on dates. The events matter, the exact dates don't.


I'm with you with that.

I also think the calendar would be more correct to start and end out the year on the winter solstice like the ancients did.


~Ann





 
Posts: 17928 | Location: The LOST Nation | Registered: 27 March 2001Reply With Quote
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BWW, I have not seen the Youtube video, but we have known for some time now, that Jesus was born sometime around 4 BC. The gospel accounts mention Herod the Great and we know that he died in 4BC. The date of Christmas is fixed as December 25 (Gregorian calendar).
The date of Easter is NOT fixed, dependent as it is on Passover which is defined by the Jewish calendar which is Lunar, not solar!
Having said that, never underestimate the ability of Christians to find something to fight about, and the date of Easter is one of those!
"I also think the calendar would be more correct to start and end out the year on the winter solstice like the ancients did."
The (liturgical) church calendar starts with the first Sunday of Advent!
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10482 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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I have been enjoying his videos, this one was no different.

I didn't post it to cause a fight, I thought it was interesting.

His video on Jesus' actual existence is also excellent. As it gives non-scriptural proof.

I grew up in a Armstrongism Religious family and was always told the lie of British Israelism, and that is how I found him. By luck the maker of the videos also grew up in the World Wide Church of God "cult" and his life lead him away from Christ into the Jewish faith.

I ventured farther out but came back across the Volga and am a Russian Orthodox now.

Life is interesting.
 
Posts: 7623 | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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BWW, I was not trying to cause a fight. My apologies if that is how you see it. I have never heard of British Israelism. I assume you don't mean the Balfour Doctrine?! That is not a lie, but a fact! I will look it up!
Peter.
PS. I have a great love for Orthodox music!
PPS. Just looked it up. It is B-S! The Welsh, Celts, Saxons and Angles all attest to this!!!


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10482 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Interesting video.
Seth, you have had quite a spiritual journey. I remember getting a subscription to "The Plain Truth" that finally ran out. Never did know who signed me up.


There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
 
Posts: 15079 | Location: Sweetwater, TX | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Good luck finding the truth.

I remember trying to find about Hannibal crossing the Alps.

Apparently he had a scribe with him writing everything down.

He wrote 49 volumes.

They were all lost.

150 years later, they found 13 of them.

Partially destroyed!!?


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Posts: 62592 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Winter solstice — spring equinox


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
Hunter/Conservationist

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member
APHA Honorary Member

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

It don’t matter who’s in Austin…Bob Wills is still the King

Lone Star Beer and Bob Wills music keeps my heart alive…
 
Posts: 32902 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Fundamentalists believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. That gets to be tricky to defend when modern Archaeology establishes dates that don't correspond exactly with the biblical text.

What we have are thousands of fragments of texts, none dating earlier than 300 years after the events of the New Testament. There are a few full texts. We don't know what the original texts said, what texts are left, have more contradictions and inconsistencies than there are words in the New Testament. I am of the opinion the original history was shortened, dates were realigned, the story made more punchy, things were eliminated, and things were added to fit the later opinions of copyists. Stories can change over 300 years, and we see stories changing within the year! (Origin of COVID anyone, lets see from bat to goose to pig and now from lab to human?) Somewhere, a thousand years later, translators of ancient texts smoothed out the various versions, and that is what is used today.

So it comes to pass that we celebrate the birth and death of Jesus at times that correspond to celestial events, and probably not historical events.

And sects today are twisting the Bible to say what they want it to mean. At least they are not re writing the text, such as was done by the early Christians.
 
Posts: 1195 | Registered: 10 October 2005Reply With Quote
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I remember getting a subscription to "The Plain Truth" that finally ran out. Never did know who signed me up.

Bill, a "friend" of mine signed me on the mailing list for "Reverend Ike" back in the 70's. But he just wanted money! Never got any from me!
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10482 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Well, we are kinda beating a dead horse here as we are all aware that so many of the dates that were used in "Pagan" rituals + beliefs, the Catholic church installed their own holy days to coincide with the elder ones. They never had much success with Halloween though. It is interesting to note that the birthdate of the Persion deiety Mithras was December 25th. I am not trying to start any arguments as I was raised as a Christian as well, but I do enjoy the history of religions + have even had 2 different Priests tell me that even the Christian doctrine is another mythology. We all know that the naming of the days of the week come from Norse mythology. Another millineum, another belief. As Neitsche said, "If God didn't exist, it would be necessary for man to invent him." Right, wrong, or indifferent, it's FAITH that keeps any religion alive.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Peter:
quote:
I remember getting a subscription to "The Plain Truth" that finally ran out. Never did know who signed me up.

Bill, a "friend" of mine signed me on the mailing list for "Reverend Ike" back in the 70's. But he just wanted money! Never got any from me!
Peter.


Have not seen a single religious person, do anything professionally except for money.

Regardless of religion! clap


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Posts: 62592 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Remember the old Lenny Bruce routine, Religions Inc.? One night the 3 con artists were sitting in a motel room with no money + 3" of bourbon left in the bottle + they were wondering what their next move to regain their finances was going to be when one of them reaches in the motel room night stand drawer + pulls out a Gideon's Bible + say's "Boy's there's money here"!


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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They never had much success with Halloween though.

Sorry Norman, but you are completely wrong here. All Hallows (saints) Eve has been around for about 1600 years and was/is a church celebration. All Saints Day is November 1st, and All Souls day has been November 2 (for the last 1000 years). You are, of course, assuming that what happens in the USA also happens in the rest of the world, miniscule as it is. Not so! In England, Guy Fawkes day is much bigger than Halloween, which is still the Eve of All Saints Day, just as it is in the rest of Europe, South America etc. Not too many people "trick a treating". In Europe, All Hallows Eve is when you go to the cemetery, clean up your parents grave site, place a votive candle on the stone, and light it.
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10482 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Peter, the Mexicans still observe Dia De Los Muertes (Day of the Dead) within one day of Halloween + that is a tradition as well. Guy Fawkes day originated when on November 6th, 1609, he decided to blow up Parliament on Tower Bridge, etc. That has seriously remained a Briish holiday (as it were). So many things change over the years + I must confess (sorry) that the rewriting of old religious practices are directly attributable to the Catholic church. Oh, + BTW, I have always felt that caring for the graveyard of ones ancestors is an admirable trait.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by SlamFire:
Fundamentalists believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. That gets to be tricky to defend when modern Archaeology establishes dates that don't correspond exactly with the biblical text.


My priest and most Orthodox priest say the bible is a book to give you a relationship with God, that it is not a history book.

It is as some say a great way to make money. Every mega-church in town is busting to the brim with "donations". Not to mention places like the Ark Experience in Kentucky and the Bible Experience in Orlando, FL.
 
Posts: 7623 | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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