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Gunsmithing gone bad: won't repair or return my firearm Login/Join 
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Cool I have done a great deal of business with Mr. Patterson and I have had nothing but outstanding work done by him I know from the start that he is very backlogged but he always completes the job. After reading what the back ground on this matter if I was him I would have told the customer to go to h--l. I would have nothing to do with anything that had been with that many gunsmiths. As for the threats I can tell you this you haven't any legal leg to stand on you sent a problem to him to fix you should have contacted the gunsmith that made the gun.
 
Posts: 243 | Location: Kansas | Registered: 06 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jim White
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How about it x-ring. Nothing to say to Danny? Now that the facts are known I would think you would have posted a sincere apology by now or do you just trash people and move on?


99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.

"O" = zero



NRA life member
 
Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Just a bump to rub x-ring's nose in the mess he made on our forum.

flaco
 
Posts: 674 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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He's good at what he does. He doesn't have to call anybody back because people will still send him business. I have had my problems with him. But the deal is not to get in a hurry for quality work. I'm sorry but if you want it done right it takes time. He only does things the right way (or trys to) no matter how long it takes. So if it takes a year so be it.

What I am tired of is people who take their gun to a smith and expect it back in a couple of weeks when they know that the industry standard is 3-6 months for most work. And if a smith doesn't return your call its not because he doesn't want to talk to you. It is because he is to busy working to return the 100-200 messages a day he receives. So my advice is not to think that a smith is avoiding you but look at the other side of it. Most smiths are a one man shop who is doing sales, marketing, accounting, logistics, shipping, the actual billable hours of work, and so on. It is hard to call everybody back. Good smiths aren't always the best businessmen. So just continue to call the smith until he is reached.

I apologize for the ranting, but I feel better after getting it out.
 
Posts: 101 | Registered: 16 January 2005Reply With Quote
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This is a typical small buisiness problem.. If you hire people to reduce the load, quality can suffer greatly. If you spend 2 hours a day on customer relations you wont make a profit.. When you hire a bunch of people to get your buisiness efficeint, you no longer are a smith, or carpenter, painter etc, your now employee relations and training, and still working overtime.. So if you can stay in buisiness for your life its quite an accomplishment, let alone make a decent living.. Not to mention some of the chemicals used by some gunsmiths are quite dangerous.. I was complaining about my first business one day and a friendly competeter told me "lifes a bitch, then you die". Big Grin I tell my employees "Its not what happened to the customer, but what he thinks what happened that matters., and we must try to make it right if at all reasonabley possible" After taking this attitude my pawn shop keeps steeling customers from our competition, I very well knew when i started my second buisiness from scratch, that i would have to "take every sale, every customer, every loan from someone else, then hold on to them" Dave


hunter, blackpowder shooter, photographer, gemology, trap shooter,duck hunter,elk, deer, etc..
 
Posts: 249 | Location: central montana | Registered: 17 June 2004Reply With Quote
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I'm really saddened to see Dan's name dragged through the mud on this forum. I've only done one project with Dan, but my experience was completely the opposite of the one described here. Dan went out of his way to stay in touch with me and on one of my trips to Phoenix he even went to the trouble of driving down from Prescott to show me progress on my project. Dan would give someone the shirt off his back before he would lie to them or rip them off and he has been a part of more successful high end rifle projects than x-ring is likely to comprehend.

Forrest


NRA Life Member
GOA Life Member
Distinguished Rifleman
President's Hundred
 
Posts: 390 | Location: Juneau, Alaska | Registered: 11 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of 458Win
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The moral of this tale is that before you join with the pack of jackels that always seem to be lurking around in the shadows of this forum, wait to hear the other side of the story.

Danny not only had to take the time to write his story here but also had to take time to explain his side to his superiors at the gunsmithing college he teaches at, as well as answer the state's attorny general. All of this used up his valuble time. Then he still is out the time and expenses of re-doing all the work done by the other gunsmiths (who should have double checked their work before sending it off.)


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4114 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:

..What I am tired of is people who take their gun to a smith and expect it back in a couple of weeks when they know that the industry standard is 3-6 months for most work....


What some customers are tired of is, being told by some smiths that it will be eg: only 6 weeks...
If industry std is maybe more like six months, then tell the customer that upfront.
We have seen in the past on this forum, how dissapointed people can be when highly self acclaimed smiths/rifle/action builders, are long on promises but short on delivery or honest communication.
Note:This is just a general responce and is not aimed at Dan-Cutrifle. Dan has gone beyond the call of duty.
 
Posts: 9434 | Location: Here & There- | Registered: 14 May 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of rick boggs
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I own a service business heating and air to be exact so i know how it is to be backed up . on the other hand i know how it is to be ignored by a business . i return every phone call (other than sales people) to last in business you have too. I wouldnt last long ignoring the people that pay the bills even if it is a freebie the next gun xring wants built maybe if comunication would have been there he would have had him build it .
 
Posts: 518 | Location: KENTUCKY | Registered: 05 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of 458Win
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The difference between the gun business and others is that not many folks stand around a heating or plumbing business just to talk - or call to talk for hours - which tales up time that they could be using to make a living.

Many of these smiths have to simply close off the outside world in order to get any work done. - although they won't say it here - when they have to deal with some of the same folks who stir up trouble here in this forum you can see why they sometimes over-do it and become reclusive.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4114 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Sounds like this has pretty well run it's course. just like to add my $.02 I had Dan do a 9.3 rebore for me and couldn't have been more pleased with his work or time to complete. And we talked once on the phone and whatever else needed said was done by E-mail -worked good-. BTW Phil, being a plumber , we somtimes get swamped With talk too. Big Grin --- Mel
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: 22 May 2006Reply With Quote
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458win is right. you can make product or talk on the phone. not both. i work in a field where customers are passionate about their toys like those here are about their firearms. customers tend to think that their toy is the only thing in the shop when there are 50 other customers thinking the same thing about their toy. i get the "i was in the neighborhood" line when people drop by the shop to check progress on something they dropped off two days ago all the time. it dosen't matter if you tell them three weeks and its been 3 days they are going to call/stop by. it's the way people are when passion is involved. having said that, i think some gunsmiths need to be more upfront about turn around time. good craftmanship takes time and if a 6 month-1 year wait scares away some customers then so be it. it's going to be the same wherever they go. i got tired of waiting many years ago as i had so many projects i wanted to complete. i ended up buying my own lathe and mill and do it myself.
 
Posts: 126 | Location: mo | Registered: 18 January 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeS:
quote:
Originally posted by rem721:
Hmm, makes x-ring seem like a(n) _________, well, you fill in the blank.


I'll fill it in. He's a customer who was not receiving the courtesy of a response.

How would YOU characterize him, Rem721?

George


I'd characterize him as a liar and an asshole, who not only lied about the time frames involved but deliberately omitted critical details from his post (like he didn't buy the barrel from Mr. Pederson, like changing the twist of barrel (thought he couldn't get ahold of him), requiring a new barrel) and caused Mr. Pederson (who I don't know) quite a bit of grief, when, in fact, Mr. Pederson only had the gun for 3 months and 18 days when this thread was originated, a small amount of time for the type work involved. X-ring should be ashamed of himself and owes Mr. Pederson an apology plus MONEY to fix all the false complaints he has made without sufficient provocation or time passing. Bah.


xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
 
Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of Michael Robinson
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What amazes me is that a guy can be as busy as Mr. Pedersen seems to be, but not answer the phone or his email.

With that policy, I have to wonder: How did he get so busy in the first place?

Is he psychic?

Now before anyone jumps on me - as I said above, I agree with Idared's view of this. Mr. Pedersen definitely went the extra mile, and beyond the extra mile, for this customer and he should be commended for that.

But, IMHO, this story has several morals, and this is one of them, and an important one: THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE - IN ANY BUSINESS ENTERPRISE - FOR CLEAR AND RESPONSIVE COMMUNICATION WITH THE CUSTOMER.

Over and out.


Mike

Edited on advice of counsel.
 
Posts: 12400 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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This was not the only board X-ring AKA Jambo aired his dirt on. Sounds like cutrifle paid for his lack of communication in spades and more than went out of his way to make X-ring happy. I will did business with him if the project comes up. Can not say the same thing about X-ring or Jambo, what ever his name is.
 
Posts: 416 | Registered: 21 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of rick boggs
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you would be surprized by the amount of time i spend on the phone cause someone doesnt know how to change a filter or wants me to tell them how to fix something or to explain how a heat pump work so yes we have the same problems not saying i am taking either side just saying that in any business there are things you have to do customer relations is a must . now that being said i wish some of my customers would just tell me their problem and let me fix it at my leisure but things dont get done that way and i get stopped to talk on the jobs in the supply houses and at my shop plus in my truck on my cell phone it is just something that you need to do in business.
 
Posts: 518 | Location: KENTUCKY | Registered: 05 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of rick boggs
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1 more thing Mr.Pedersen sounds like the guy i would want working on my guns due simply to the fact that he is fixing this problem sounds like he really does good work . just needs a phone person to do the talking for him.
 
Posts: 518 | Location: KENTUCKY | Registered: 05 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Some years ago - 1988 - after making advance arrangements, the group I was with called in at an Australian Barrelmakers workshop - Dennis Tobler. He had relocated from the Sydney City suburb to a small country town/village 300 km away. His explanation was that in the city, shooters kept dropping in and cutting his production in half - here he had peace and quiet and a good setup for volume production. Phone calls dropped off as well. He was able to fit us in on a planned rest day and show us over and explain his setup - we bought 6 of his barrels, I bought two and they shot very well.


Arte et Marte
 
Posts: 116 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 09 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jim White
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Some of you guy's still don't seem to be getting the big picture here. This asshole
x-ring say's that Danny didn't keep in touch and doesn't answer his phone and this and that about his business. BULLSHIT! Read Danny's post over again. He not only kept in touch he went far beyond what anyone else would have done. It cost him $112.00 alone for a box af ammo to test this maggots rifle and if I know Danny Pedersen he sent the puke the remainder of the box after he was satisfied the rifle was on the money.
Danny Pedersen a bad businessman?
KISS MY ASS!


99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.

"O" = zero



NRA life member
 
Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001Reply With Quote
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I know Danny personally and can vouch for his character. He is a stand up guy and an extremely talented rifle maker. He has done two rifles for me and is finishing up a third. The barrel he made for this project has front ramp, rear island and swivel all machined into the bbl. This sort of talent is rare and the work very time consuming. He is, for the most part, a one man shop and works long hours. On occasion of my visit to Prescott, he took time to show me around the shop and then took me to visit the Wells shop and a local stock maker. He is one of the good guys.
 
Posts: 677 | Location: Florida | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of x-ring
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim White:
Some of you guy's still don't seem to be getting the big picture here. This asshole
x-ring say's that Danny didn't keep in touch and doesn't answer his phone and this and that about his business. BULLSHIT! Read Danny's post over again. He not only kept in touch he went far beyond what anyone else would have done. It cost him $112.00 alone for a box af ammo to test this maggots rifle and if I know Danny Pedersen he sent the puke the remainder of the box after he was satisfied the rifle was on the money.
Danny Pedersen a bad businessman?
KISS MY ASS!


Don't know you--don't care to.

I don't camp out on these forums--so I haven't had the luxury of following this discussion.

Call me what you will if that makes you feel better.

I think I accurately described the situation in my first post. I never said or hinted that Peterson built this rifle. I purposely tried to keep it short and to the point.

The point is this: I had a rifle built around a faulty barrel.

Mark Penrod is the one who recontoured it, trued it, etc. I'm not a machinist or a gunsmith and I didn't want to post (but will now) that this barrel (ACCORDING TO HIM) was very rough when he received it.

What am I going to do? Tell him "no it's not"? Just true it up, chamber it and send it on? Yes, Mark is a perfectionist. That's why people swamp him with work. But he (as do many other gunsmiths) called me and let me know what was going on.

As for the timing...I was wrong. I began the process in July but Pederson actually recieved it in early August. It doesn't change the outcome.

By the way, Dan was very helpful (AS STATED) in our early conversations.

For the record...why should it matter if I bought the barrel from Mr. Courtney? He told me that he knew Pederson and would order it for me. It's his barrel! Does Lilja downgrade their barrels if you order them from a dealer? I don't get this point at all.

As for the barrel twist/two barrels. Dan is really being coy on this. He called me to told me he made one (this is when he was returning calls) ON HIS OWN--and BEFORE ASKING ME. I didn't "order one" and then change my mind. This is where I get pissed off (again) about this whole deal. BAD COMMUNICATION and misrepresentation.

My resolution of his disinterest simply comes from (came from) LACK OF ACTION. He can SAY anything he wants to. I wanted him to DO SOMETHING!

Look, call me an asshole or SOB or whatever, but ALL of this could have been avoided with a few phone calls.

Now I'm the prick--I'm the asshole right? Fine with me.

But I also know that without taking these steps nothing would have happened.

I've said from the beginning that I have NO DESIRE to do anything other than get my rifle returned. I told him that I was running out of options. A returned phone call would have solved all of this.

For you non-believers or who don't understand this, let me say it again:

A simple phone call--two minutes of his time--would have and could have avoided ALL of this.


RECTUM NON BUSTUS
 
Posts: 96 | Registered: 22 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of x-ring
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By the way...just to illustrate how nutty this whole thing has become...the FIRST I've heard of ANYTHING being done to my rifle is by reading it here.

No phone call, no email...nothing. Go figure.


RECTUM NON BUSTUS
 
Posts: 96 | Registered: 22 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I have been waiting on a custom rifle for over a year and a half... I have seen the rifle once, have talked with the smith twice since I handed him the money for the stock blank and the MRC LH action. Am I worried? Not in the slightest... Do I need to know that Robert is working on the rifle? No, because I know the man.

I guess I am just different, but unless I had to have the rifle for another safari, I would have just let it cook.

My $.02
 
Posts: 4748 | Location: TX | Registered: 01 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Idared
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quote:
For you non-believers or who don't understand this, let me say it again:

A simple phone call--two minutes of his time--would have and could have avoided ALL of this.


Mr ring

Could you please answer a simple question? Did you talk to Mr Pedersen in October? If so how long was the length of time between then and Nov. 29?

Many thanks


******************************
"We do not exaggerate when we state positively that the remodelled Springfield is the best and most suitable "all 'round" rifle".......Seymour Griffin, GRIFFIN & HOWE, Inc.
 
Posts: 845 | Location: Central Washington State | Registered: 12 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Maybe he didn't want to talk to you?

Maybe he was afraid he'd say something offensive?

flaco
 
Posts: 674 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jim White
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Now I'm the prick--I'm the asshole right? Fine with me.

Right!


99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.

"O" = zero



NRA life member
 
Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Xring has asked for our thoughtful consideration of his situation.
This is what I think. According to his original post, Xring knew before he sent his rifle to Pedersen that he was extremely difficult to reach by phone but, he did respond to letters. Later, when Xring couldn't reach him by phone, he began a campaign of harassment. Finally, it occured to him to send Pedersen another letter. But, he couldn't wait for a reply. Instead, he decided to harass Pedersen on the internet forums.
I learned that even a "bad" Pedersen barrel must be pretty accuate otherwise Xring would have mentioned it. And, if I ever order a barrel from Pedersen, I'll do it by mail.
 
Posts: 174 | Registered: 08 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of H T
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SmilerI'm absolutely with X-Ring on this one. Had a similar experience with a taxidermist working on a zebra flatskin a couple of years ago. Two years into the 6 month process, killpc after numerous attempts to find out what was going on, I called the customs importer who recommended the guy and related that I was in the procss of engaging a local attorney to file suit. Later that same day I got the taxidermist's call that although the skin wasn't ready, he would send it to me if I would (again) give him my address.

X-Ring was more than patient considering the money in the rifle and the communication frustrations already endured. Sounds like the gunsmith is a pretty good one, but runs his business without seeing things from the client's perspective - usually a fatal mistake for that business if it continues.
 
Posts: 702 | Location: Kerrville, TX | Registered: 24 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jim White
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quote:
Originally posted by H T:
X-Ring was more than patient considering the money in the rifle and the communication frustrations already endured. Sounds like the gunsmith is a pretty good one, but runs his business without seeing things from the client's perspective - usually a fatal mistake for that business if it continues.


H T
You seem to have a comprehension problem.
Reread Danny's post again and then come back and tell me where you can find fault with anything that he did for this whining bitch.
Danny went so far above and beyond that I find it incomprehensible that anyone can say that he came up short in the customer service department in any way, shape or form! You tell me what more he could possibly have done. And I don't want to hear about any "answer the phone" bullshit. He stated in his post that he tries to take care of PR on Friday. What more could he have possibly done? The way I compute it this deal COST Danny to the tune of $800.00 to $900.00.
I have had just about enough of this thread and won't post further. If a person doesn't "get it"
by now, I seriously doubt they ever will.


99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.

"O" = zero



NRA life member
 
Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Rumor has it that x-ring, besides being a whiny crying azzhole has ALSO not paid his bill at Bansner's for this rifle. Say it ain't so......surely someone who files all those vicious AND LYING complaints doesn't live in a glass house?


xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
 
Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
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i once had a communication problem with a smith he had 2 of my rifles for about 1 1/2 years. i contacted another smith i knew lived near him asking him just have him call me ...nothing.. i cant say that i didnt trust him i just wanted a call ..but he would,nt.. eventually i called the local sherrif {it was a small town} asked him to check on him ,just in case hes dead in the shop,if hes alive ask him to ship my guns out ASAP , i did not tell the sheriff anything derogatory of the smith i just made it sound like he was delivering a message , i finally got my guns back after i had paid { which was never a problem on my part }and a note telling me to go f___k myself its too bad cause i liked his work and still do ....... paul
 
Posts: 294 | Location: MASSACHUSETTS | Registered: 26 June 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by stepchild 2:
quote:
Originally posted by stepchild 2:
On a recent trip to Prescott, I had the pleasure of meeting Danny Pedersen.
Dan runs a one man operation, where he assumes the duties of secretary, shipping and receiving clerk, and Gunsmith when he has the time(forgot the test firing at the range,and in this case the ammo cost was $112.
Mr. Pedersen provided a barrel and had no control over what happened to it after it left his shop. The barrel was recountoured and no where did I read that it was renormalized.
Three people worked on this project, yet the blame falls in Danny's lap.
A Gunsmith is expected to spend half the day on the phone answering your trivial questions and have YOUR rifle back to you in a timely fashion, it doesn't work that way.The man has to make a living, he's not your personal nanny.
This man once worked for Fred Wells(before he died), which speaks volumes to those who want to listen and you calling his boss is over the top!
I once bought a Shilen(SS match) barrel that wouldn't group and metal fouled, A short conversation with Doug Shilen and the problem was solved, the barrel was renormalized, relapped and the problem was solved.
And before you can say it, Doug Shilen has a much larger operation, which was inherited from his father, a luxury, I doubt Danny Pedersen has enjoyed.
In closing, xring, in my opinion you are a self centered ASS HOLE!

Stepchild


NRA Life Member
 
Posts: 1326 | Location: glennie, mi. USA | Registered: 14 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Stepchild,
Doug did not inherit from Ed. Doug and Mikel,Ed's son and Daughter, bought Shilen from Ed. Doug sold his share to Wade Hull, son of Bill Hull who has run the barrel shop for over 20yrs. Ed is back in the shop and very involved. Wade is very knowledgeable and is bringing Shilen into the 21st century. Mikel Shilen is running the office. New machinery and more quality control are producing great barrels.
Your story is correct about Doug taking care of you as they do all of their customers. I have heard the same good comments of Danny Pederson.
Butch
 
Posts: 8933 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Butch,
I stand corrected.

Stepchild


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Posts: 1326 | Location: glennie, mi. USA | Registered: 14 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Stepchild,
I could understand as most people think that. Ed is kinda like me, our shop is our retirement. Our son's pay us off with monthly checks. If we live a long time, they are screwed.
Butch
 
Posts: 8933 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Stepchild 2,
I am curious about something unrelated to the topic here. You made a statement and then quoted yourself 3 times. What is up with that?


Chic Worthing
"Life is Too Short To Hunt With An Ugly Gun"
http://webpages.charter.net/cworthing/
 
Posts: 4917 | Location: Wenatchee, WA, USA | Registered: 17 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Chic,
I'm blaming it on the keyboard or maybe a touch of Happy Hour.

Stepchild


NRA Life Member
 
Posts: 1326 | Location: glennie, mi. USA | Registered: 14 July 2003Reply With Quote
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This horse is DEAD! How much more does it need to be kicked?


Mike Ryan - Gunsmith
 
Posts: 352 | Location: Michigan, USA | Registered: 31 July 2008Reply With Quote
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