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Gunsmithing gone bad: won't repair or return my firearm Login/Join 
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Picture of x-ring
posted
Fellow AR members,

I'm seeking some insight and perhaps some unique and as yet untried method in hopes of retrieving my wayward rifle.

Reader's Digest version: Had a rifle built over the last year and half or so for a (successful) dangerous game hunt. For many reasons I didn't get the rifle until about 3 weeks prior to my departure (an entirely different but related story).

Part of the build included putting NECG sights on the rifle. Regulation for 400 gr. TSX at 50 yards resulted in this:





Time was short--So, I set the zero as it is, set zero on the scope and off I went to Africa. I had no time to do otherwise.

Upon my return I had some very urgent family matters to attend to and so the issue with the rifle took a back seat for about 6 weeks.

After sending the rifle back to the excellent gunsmith (Mark Bansner) who assembled the rifle (he got the barreled action and fit the sights/stock only), it was determined that the barrel was faulty. The sights are aligned within 0.001" of the barrel centerline.

I then began the REAL adventure about which I now write. After numerous unanswered phone calls--unanswered e-mails to the barrel maker (Dan Pedersen of "Classic Barrel Works" in Prescott, AZ) I had to send a letter to Mr. Pederson via USPS restricted delivery (confirms that only a specified person or authorized agent will receive a piece of mail.)

In the letter I explained what you've read here, enclosed the photos that you see and asked for some remedy.

It seemed to work (at first) and I was thankful and relieved that he responded within a day of getting the letter. He agreed to look at the rifle so I sent it to him. After a few days he called me and said that yes, the barrel did indeed appear to be faulty and the he'd do whatever it took to remedy the situation. That was in July.

Since then, I've had only three conversations with him. Always the same story--"just spun the barrel--just getting around to asking Mark Bansner about what they used to coat their rifles--call you by the end of the week". All BS.

I called Mark and asked him if Pederson had EVER called anyone in the shop regarding what they'd found when they inspected it OR anything about how they coat their rifles. NOBODY in the shop has ever gotten a call from Mr. Pederson.

It's now been almost two months since I've had any contact with Mr. Pederson. He refuses to take calls or has an answering service that is full and won't (literally) accept messages.

I've had a friend who went to gunsmithing school where Mr. Pederson is sometimes employed call a classmate who resides in the area of Mr. Pederson's shop and physically walk in to have him ask WTFO? (politely).

No response.

Last week I was able (finally) to get his voice mail--and left a message explaining that I felt I was running out of options.

I have now run into the proverbial brick wall.

He has my rifle and doesn't appear to want to either repair or return it.

My next course of action was to contact the state attorney general and file a complaint with them (they handle consumer complaint/fraud in Arizona) but they are unlikely to be effective and are S L O W in their response time.

I've contacted his boss at the Yavapai Junior College where he teaches (part time) and laid out the story for him. Haven't heard anything there but I just sent him a letter today so I don't expect to for a while.

I have his FFL # (he's also a gun dealer) so I also filed a complaint with BATFE. Finally, doing a search on the EZ Check (BATFE) I found that his FFL expires on Monday and along with notifying them of my complaint I have a feeling he'll be (at the very least) audited by the Feds. Hope his logs are up to snuff...

I'm seriously wondering whether or not someone could consider the rifle as having been stolen. It may seem a bit overblown at first blush, but the guy does have my rifle and does not seem inclined AT ALL to return it. He's just "disappeared"...

Elevating his bad behavior to a crime doesn't give me ANY pleasure whatsoever but I really am stuck.

At the same time I don't WANT to create any more problems and oh, by the way, I'd like first and foremost to get my rifle fixed and get it back. I think the first wish is unrealistic, so I may just have to lick my wounds and take this as a VERY expensive "life lesson"...and just get it back in one piece.

So, I present this dilemma for your thoughtful consideration and replies. Take a minute and put yourself in the situation--and perhaps I can find a way to resolve this successfully.

Although it's painfully obvious, I'd also strongly recommend that you avoid contracting for the services of Mr. Pederson or buying his barrels.

(This post been submitted in various appropriate forums--Accurate Reloading, etc.)


RECTUM NON BUSTUS
 
Posts: 96 | Registered: 22 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Sure we can all share your frustration with the long delay on any resolution to the issue, but bare with me for a moment to help me understand the problem at hand. Noticing the rear sight is way far to the left, and you note that the sight is within .001" of the bore, are you saying that the bore is not aligned with the outside diameter(true center of the original barrel blank) or is the barrel bent, crooked??
Is the front sight at TDC/12 o'clock and is the rear sight at TDC/12 o'clock also?? Was this checked prior to sending off to the 'smith?? Surely the 'smith in question could check this out quickly and determine if the sight alignment is true or not. Since he is letting his lic. expire, or it would seem as such, he may be "retiring" from the trade so to speak. I would send him registered mail and inquire as to just what the problem is and if he does not want nor can inspect/repair, at least he could return it to you and would insist that he do so promptly. Based on what you have said, would not want him to do any further work on the rifle. Good luck.
 
Posts: 1165 | Location: Banks of Kanawha, forks of Beaver Dam and Spring Creek | Registered: 06 January 2005Reply With Quote
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If he did not respond to the letter, perhaps a lien on his assets would convince him that you mean business.
 
Posts: 145 | Registered: 18 July 2006Reply With Quote
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I'm very surprised at this! I've done business with Danny several times and have had zero problems or complaints. He does get swamped with work from time to time, and sometimes it took a day or three for him to reply to a voice mail, but that's all. I suspect he will make it right. Please keep us informed. Thanks.


Good hunting,

Andy

-----------------------------
Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”

 
Posts: 6707 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Well, Prescott is the county seat of Yavapai County. Why don't you just call the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office and ask to speak with a senior deputy. Then, tell him/her that you would very much appreciate thier assistance in obtaining the prompt return of your rifle.

I would not bother trying to tell them about any criticisms you may have of Mr. Pedersen's work, past, present, or future. That would be a civil matter of no concern to them. However the unauthorized possession of your weapon could be a potential concern to them. (I'm not saying rifles are all weapons, just that LEOs often prick up their ears when talking about guns because they see them all as POTENTIAL weapons, which all of them probably are.)

As to placing a lien on his assets, I don't believe it likely that you have any legal grounds whatsoever to do that. But then, I've been wrong before...just don't think you should pin your hopes to that possibility.


My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still.

 
Posts: 9685 | Location: Cave Creek 85331, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Had similar issues with him myself.

He was doing some barrel work on a 300 Dakota rifle I had.

I did get the rifle eventually...took about 18 months for a job he promised in 6 weeks.

Seems he was laid up for awhile with knee problems (and eventual surgery)....I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but I'd never have him do anything again.

First of all, I don't think he's dishonest.
I think he's swamped by back-ordered projects, or his health has wavered again.

Send him a registered letter, return receipt, and explain that if you don't hear back from him you'll have no choice but to report your firearms as stolen to BATF.

You'll hear from him soon enough.
Don't let him fix the problem. Get the rifle back and have someone else finish the work.

Garrett
 
Posts: 987 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With Quote
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I'm not on either side of the fence here..but if you were able to zero the scope, how far off can the barrel be? Do you mean that the bore was off to one side, crooked,,or what?

Since Pederson seems to admit fault..what was the fault?..my first thought is that the sights were not properly lined up.

But..for him not to answer your calls is completely inexcuseable..gives all gunmakers a bad name. Please keep us posted
 
Posts: 2221 | Location: Tacoma, WA | Registered: 31 October 2003Reply With Quote
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My experience is that it is NOT stolen.. You sent it to him.. No contract, no dates, no set limits in the industry as what is reasonable.. Im guessing he knows the law on this much better than you as others have had simular problems,. He is a manufacturer, and looks like hes buisy,.. if your promise date is not in writing to show a judge you dont have much to go on.... dave


hunter, blackpowder shooter, photographer, gemology, trap shooter,duck hunter,elk, deer, etc..
 
Posts: 249 | Location: central montana | Registered: 17 June 2004Reply With Quote
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Any and all correspondence that I would send to him would be in the form of registered return receipt mail, HIS signature required.

Informing him in such a manner that he has 7 days to reply to you in the same manner concerning the return of your rifle or criminal charges will be filed.

It is always best to establish a paper trail. Any mail sent to him either not registered or requiring his signature will be claimed by him as "never seen or recieved."

Talk to someone in law enforcement about filing theft charges.


NRA LIFE MEMBER

You can trust the government. Look how well they took care of the American Indian...

 
Posts: 425 | Location: New Jersey The state sucks, but it's better than living in France. | Registered: 11 July 2005Reply With Quote
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I know nothing of this person or as others have stated already is the Bore crooked or the sights misaligned /.

As for no recourse or time line SIMPLY NOT TRUE !. I'm not an attorney either !.

A promissory verbal contract is a LEGAL DOCUMENT in a court of Law . Fixing someones whatever must be done

in a reasonable time frame . The Court makes a decision of what's reasonable and it sounds by your description

the Business entity of this contract is less than reasonable . The Court disfavors Unreasonable character !.

At the VERY LEAST your property would be returned too you and more than likely compensation .

When a person has work preformed ( Services for Money ) a satisfaction of the said party is necessary in order

to complete contract whether written or verbally given . Ask a lawyer who has the upper hand !.

Sometimes all that's required is a Letter from an Attorney's office , you may be surprised how

fast that works !.

It's a shame to stoop too the threat of a Law Suit but some people are simply crooked or unconcerned

with others satisfaction and need " Tuning Up " !.

I prefer personally to look the person in the Eye as I shake their hand when doing business with them.

98% of the time I can tell if they are going to be able to do what they say they can when they can !.

For those times when it's just not practical or feasible CHECK REFERENCES even ask other

GunSmiths . This is one of the reason for forums like this one it has REPUTABLE SMITHS who reside

on it . From what I've had done and have seen QUALITY INTEGRITY REPUTATION is their hallmarks !.
 
Posts: 4485 | Location: Planet Earth | Registered: 17 October 2008Reply With Quote
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[QUOTE]Originally posted:
A promissory verbal contract is a LEGAL DOCUMENT in a court of Law .


No. A verbal contract IS a contract, but it is not a document. As a contract, its content is enforceable only to the point it can be proved to exist, and its terms can be proved. With witnesses to the contract, one could have some hope of proving its existance and terms, but it would still be difficult to prove Mr. Pedersen understood or agreed to the terms the same way plaintiff thought them to be.



When a person has work preformed ( Services for Money ) a satisfaction of the said party is necessary in order to complete contract whether written or verbally given .

Even if that were true, it would simply mean the contract had been breached...i.e. the owner of the gun would not be obligated to pay for any repair work actually performed. No court will likely try to enforce "satisfaction" with the work. How could they? What standards would they apply? That he didn't like the looks of the work? It still did apparently function well enough to shoot it and sight it in. If standards of satisfaction and recourse were not agreed on in advance, what is the court to enforce?



Sometimes all that's required is a Letter from an Attorney's office , you may be surprised how

fast that works !.

Probably good advice.

QUOTE]


My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still.

 
Posts: 9685 | Location: Cave Creek 85331, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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I just talked to Danny today and he was boxing up barrels to ship to clients--hopefully one was yours -- but if not and you can stand the wait YOU WILL GET A PROPER BARREL. Danny is honest and hard working - plus builds great barrels. I just received one of his (my second) and it shoots as good as the best.
If you actually could watch him build a barrel on his 1890's Pratt & Whitney rifling machine you would understand that it is not a fast operation- plus he is in demand so his turaround time is slow.
If you want a quick barrel why didn't you order a Douglas or Shilen? They make good barrels.
There are too many folks on this site who obviously have way too short attention spans and are quick to take legal action when a custom barrel or action ( built in a literal one-man-shop )take longer than they anticipated.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4114 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
If you want a quick barrel why didn't you order a Douglas or Shilen? They make good barrels.
There are too many folks on this site who obviously have way too short attention spans and are quick to take legal action when a custom barrel or action ( built in a literal one-man-shop )take longer than they anticipated.


Phil
I respect you greatly, in part because you have been there and done that and even more so because Finn Aagaard called you a friend.

But I have to say you are wrong on this. The problem is that the barrel maker has not followed through by calling the gunsmith, and now the barrel maker is not returning calls. I have been in the same situation, a gunsmith had my rifle an fell off the face of the earth, it is a sickening feeling.

I do think that a second letter should have been sent. Maybe one was and I missed it???

But to say that he should have purchased a pre-made barrel is totally off base. Getting the barrel was not the problem. The problem was getting it repaired.

I know the barrel maker is probably swamped, but he should put warranty work at the front of the line. At the very least he could have kept the customer updated.

Jason


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6286 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I had the same sort of problem - calls not returned, promises that "it was being done next week", that special tools were having to be obtained from Gary Clark in Birmingham, England with regard to a Webley hammer gun I left with him for repair.

It went on so long that it was over TWO YEARS! Before I got it back. In the end the only way I was able to do so was to send a recorded delivery letter to the police responsible for that town asking what was happening.

The gun was done and I collected it within four weeks of the police getting the letter. And when I collected it I simply said that I did not expect to receive an invoice.

I think that in the very least - as there will be a record of the gun being owned by you? That after nine months you at least need to cover your back by letting someone know that you have not seen the gun.

What really annoyed me was that firstly I knew the man was well capable of doing the work - and when eventually done first class work it was too - and that sometimes an honest indication that the guy is very very busy and yes it will be a year before it is looked at is better than a promise of a possible six week turnaround.

That's what really upsets. That the promise of a quick turnaround is often made and therefore rather than take the work elsewhere you leave it with them to find it takes two years!
 
Posts: 6797 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 18 November 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:

There are too many folks on this site who obviously have way too short attention spans and are quick to take legal action when a custom barrel or action ( built in a literal one-man-shop )take longer than they anticipated.



Phil,

Most people just want honest communication. It is amazing how the communicating part sometimes dries up after the check is sent.

I know nothing about this situation. However, I do know about Greg Hein, who you backed and continue to do so here........???
 
Posts: 1361 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 07 February 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Most people just want honest communication. It is amazing how the communicating part sometimes dries up after the check is sent.


That says it all. There is no excuse for not communicating with your clients/customers.


Rusty
We Band of Brothers!
DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member

"I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends."
----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
"I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841
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Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
 
Posts: 9797 | Location: Missouri City, Texas | Registered: 21 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Most people just want honest communication. It is amazing how the communicating part sometimes dries up after the check is sent.


+2 to that! Just to be kept honestly informed. OK if it is going to take two years say so! Don't promise six weeks then keep making excuses.
 
Posts: 6797 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 18 November 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by enfieldspares:
quote:
Most people just want honest communication. It is amazing how the communicating part sometimes dries up after the check is sent.


+2 to that! Just to be kept honestly informed. OK if it is going to take two years say so! Don't promise six weeks then keep making excuses.


+3 to that. What amazes me is how so many are so quick to come to the defense of Smith *if* he's a known entity. It's real simple, communicate with your customer even if it isn't what they want to hear.


______________________
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unique, just like everyone else.

 
Posts: 6202 | Location: Cascade, MT | Registered: 12 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Jason, I am not condoning poor communication with clients but I do know Danny Peterson. He is an honest and honorable man and does stand behind his work.
What bothers me is how many readers on this forum act like a pack of wolves - ready to tear into anyone that someone claims slighted them -without knowing all the details or hearing from the second party.
I know Danny is swamped with work but I will personally ask him about your rifle.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4114 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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I have a rifle at a smith in north Texas. It has been there 2 months beyond the time promised. I called and was fortunate enough to talk with him directly. My rifle is complete, but he is in the middle of an ATF audit. Probably because some jerk-off who expects miracles overnight got bent out of shape when his delivery date was a few weeks past.

Something we need to consider here is that good gunsmiths and machinists and tool&die makers are a dying breed in this country. Is it any wonder they are often backlogged for upto a year? No. Guys want the best but are not willing to wait for it.

I do agree that refusing correspondence or acknowledgement thereof is disappointing at best and criminal at worst.

When you get your rifle back, if it has been repaired and is asthetically pleasing and is perfectly functioning PAY THE MAN WHAT HE IS DUE!

Andy


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Posts: 2959 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 15 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Almost universally it is not some jerk off expecting miracles that is the problem but a Smith promising something he KNOWS he can't deliver to get the business and then NOT picking up the phone when the client is upset. Personally two months late would be early for most of my stuff and really wouldn't bother me. There is absolutely NO excuse for poor communication on both sides. All this being said I've had mostly positive experiences. I know how long it takes or can take and don't expect or demand fast turn around times. However I have my limits as well, a certain well known duplicator is testing my patience as we speak Smiler Nice guy though and by maintaining some civility perhaps he'll kick it in gear. He's treated me well in the past and that always counts. You can be late and communicate and you'll usually do ok, be late and blow people off and there are no excuses that will satisfy, including death! Not entirely joking on that one.


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unique, just like everyone else.

 
Posts: 6202 | Location: Cascade, MT | Registered: 12 February 2002Reply With Quote
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I don't believe this is a case of someone expecting miracle from their gunsmith....
This is a gun owner concerned that someone who has his firearm has disappeared (for all intents and purporses).

I have a rifle I sent to a very good stock maker for a new piece of wood. We agreed that it would be about 18 months.

Well, it's been 4 years now, and it's still not done, but I am not the least bit concerned. We speak regularly, and part of the delay has been my fault in that I asked him to tackle another stock first, which he did promptly.

I'll have my other rifle back soon enough, but the several year delay isn't an issue because he's always available for discussion (except when in the mountains in Oct. hunting).

Garrett
 
Posts: 987 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Thank You AC for correcting me on my poor choice of terminology . thumb

Law Suits and Lawyers are an unpleasant area of which I tend to avoid ( Like The Plague ).
 
Posts: 4485 | Location: Planet Earth | Registered: 17 October 2008Reply With Quote
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Well Jim Ray, you've finally smoked me out of hiding! Just so all of you out there know, I'm only answering the phone on Fridays, until I can get some of my back log out the door, can't talk and work at the same time. I average 40-50 calls a day incoming,and it usually fills the box before noon. I also do not answer the private name/unknown number calls--just too many salesmen out there. My apologies for being so hard to get ahold of.
Mr. Ray, there are a couple of statements made on this forum that bother me greatly.
First, that I've had your rifle since July. The letter that you sent me was dated July 28 and rec'd on the 31st. You and I first talked on August 1. The USPS date stamp on your shipment is August 4th. Your firearm arrived August 11 and is logged in on that day. August 11th to current date doesn't quite add up to 6 months posted here or the 5 months stated in the letter to the Arizona State Attorney Generals Office, Department of Consumer Complaints. On my fingers we're just short of 4 months.
I confirmed on the 12th at the range that the problem that you described was indeed valid. I spent 6 hours on the 13th confirming that Penrod Precision and Bansners had performed their work correctly. Sights in the middle, action squared, throat straight and true,crown square, etc. etc. etc.(Great job guys, I'd let you work on my guns anytime!). Now the conversation in which I agreed that since I could find nothing else wrong, it must be the barrel, and I would replace it, including mounting, chambering, crowning, resetting the sights, rebedding, and refinishing, all at no cost to you.
With this verbal commitment to you why are you stating that I have no interest in repairing or returning your fire arm? I had the new left hand twist barrel on your rifle when we talked in October, at your request for a right hand twist I removed it and built an new barrel. No Questions asked or complaints made to you. I told you I would fix this rifle and I meant it. I suppose I should have told you the 2nd new barrel would add some time to the return. I just assumed that you knew.
Your student investigator did come to the shop. I explained to him where the rifle was in progress. Don't have any idea why he didn't respond to you.
Mr. Ray, Your rifle is reassembled and on its way to Bansners for refinishing. He tells me that it should be back home in a couple of weeks.(his refinisher is going deer hunting this week). It is now hitting the center of the target with the sights set in the center of the base. It's OK. This is not one of lifes expensive lessons. I haven't disapeared, My FFL is good to August 2011, and your rifle is safe and will probably be home before Christmas.

Now, for all of you following this customer relations nightmare, as Paul Harvey would say. Here is the rest of the story.
Mr. Ray did not buy this barrel from me! It was probably purchased from J. Courtney. I did send a barrel to Mr. Courtney with a left hand twist, and Mr. Ray inidicates that he knows Mr. Courtney. It was then sent to Penrod Precision where it was recontoured and installed on a Montana action. From there, it was sent to Bansner for sight installation,and stocking. Now, some of you might at this point be questioning why a shady operator like myself would warranty a barrel for a person that was not the original purchaser, and had been modified by at least two other gunsmiths. The Answer--- Because I believed that it was the right thing to do. Mr. Ray had an obvious problem, And I STAND BEHIND MY PRODUCT AND MY WORK. I may fall down in the customer contact satifaction catagory, but I refuse to leave a customer with less than my best effort a producing a quality product. Bear with me, I'll enumerate on Mr. Rays Expensive Life Lesson.

Jim Ray-- Four months of frustration.

Classic Barrel
1. Tarnished reputation
2. Multiple black eyes on AR Forums
3. 6 hrs diagnostic & 2 range trips $400
4. 1 S/S left hand twist barrel $340
5. 1 S/S right hand twist barrel $340
6. 2 installation charges ($225) $450
7. 1 bedding charge $175
8. reinstall sights and b/b $95
9. freight to Bansners $85
10. refinishing by Bansners not discussed
11. 1 box 416 Rem Ammo $112
12. Freight home to Mr. Ray $???
13. Trouble with AZ Atty Gen
14. Trouble with ATFE
15. Trouble with My Boss at Yavapai
16. Pride in knowing that Mr. Ray's
rifle now shoots correctly PRICELESS

Thank all of you for your patience while I ramble.
Good Nite
Dan Pedersen

P.S. I have two left handed tomato stakes for sale or trade --CHEAP!
 
Posts: 1 | Location: Prescott Az USA | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Mmmmmm... I think I can identify with cutrifle. He sounds like a perfectionist and as some have stated, an honourable man! (In some ways, he sounds a little bit like me). On the other hand, it is understandable – although unfortunate - that someone got frustrated with him and misunderstood his intensions. Unfortunate, especially since he was acting ‘beyond the call of duty’. Hats off to cutrifle for fronting up and explaining himself! Good to know he is on board with us but I suspect he won't have much time to contribute to this forum. (Pity). But still, there is always for hoping! thumb


Regards
303Guy
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 October 2007Reply With Quote
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I love a story with a happy ending!

flaco
 
Posts: 674 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Hmm, makes x-ring seem like a(n) _________, well, you fill in the blank.
 
Posts: 583 | Registered: 28 May 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by rem721:
Hmm, makes x-ring seem like a(n) _________, well, you fill in the blank.


I'll fill it in. He's a customer who was not receiving the courtesy of a response.

How would YOU characterize him, Rem721?

George


 
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of dempsey
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721 showing the depth of his character once again. I fully understand a person cannot work on guns and be a fulltime phone attendant, especially with all the tire kickers. However, they had better work out a system that works to avoid headaches such as the one presented here. It is fully possible.


______________________
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unique, just like everyone else.

 
Posts: 6202 | Location: Cascade, MT | Registered: 12 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Jim White
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I was in Danny's shop this morning and I can verify that it was packed and ready for shipment. I also seen the target that the rifle in question shot at 100 yds. Impressive to say the least. Almost as impressive as the way Danny Pedersen has handled this case right from the git-go.
Jim Ray, whoever you are, you owe Danny Pedersen an apology and you need to publicly withdraw the slanderous lies you have posted here and other places.


99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.

"O" = zero



NRA life member
 
Posts: 730 | Location: Prescott, AZ | Registered: 07 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of ramrod340
posted Hide Post
I'm glad the issue is coming to rest. Easy to sit and point fingers at either side. I have to admit I've over estimated the time I was waiting for a project.

Key issue is COMMUNICATION would have eliminated the problem.

I fully understand not having the time to return a call. Had plenty of that when I was working. My thought would be if calls are only handled one day a week a simple statement to that fact on the answering machine might help flustrated callers.


As usual just my $.02
Paul K
 
Posts: 12843 | Location: Mexico, MO | Registered: 02 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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quote:
a simple statement to that fact on the answering machine might help flustrated callers

thumb


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Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Well as I've always suspected there are at least two sides to every story .Seems Mr. Pedersen is a stand up guy !.

I'm sincerely glad to see this was or is being resolved without Lawyers .

Lawyers Politicians Judges and firearms make me queasy !.
 
Posts: 4485 | Location: Planet Earth | Registered: 17 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Well Jim Ray, you've finally smoked me out of hiding!


Just goes to show that being a good gunsmith doesn't equate with being a good businessman.

I can speak from experience that Mark Bansner of Adamstown, PA answers his phone in a timely manner.
 
Posts: 4799 | Location: Lehigh county, PA | Registered: 17 October 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Fjold
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quote:
Originally posted by cutrifle:
Jim Ray-- Four months of frustration.

Classic Barrel
1. Tarnished reputation
2. Multiple black eyes on AR Forums
13. Trouble with AZ Atty Gen
14. Trouble with ATFE
15. Trouble with My Boss at Yavapai




Cost of returning one phone call that would have prevented items 1, 2, 13, 14, 15 above ................ $2.00


Frank



"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite

 
Posts: 12284 | Location: Cynthiana, Kentucky, USA | Registered: 30 December 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Idared
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First off I have no axe to grind in this but in a lot of ways I have to agree with Phil on it. There are quite a few things that bother me about the original post. The biggest thing is why were important facts left out. If I read this correctly Mr Pedersen simply sold the original barrel to someone. This person in turn sold it to another person who re-contoured it and installed it on an action. From here it went to another person who installed the sights and finished the rifle. I think all this should have been included in the original post to give folks a better idea of what all was done with this barrel AFTER it left Mr Pedersen's shop. I think many people would have said there were too many things done outside of their control to even touch this barrel again. I think Mr Pedersen deserves a lot of credit for even looking at it let alone replacing it. I would have at most furnished another barrel and let the folks who did the original work replace it especially after it was re-contoured.

The time frames that don't agree is also a bad sign to me. I feel a person needs to be totally accurate about these when putting them on an internet site which almost always turns out to be a feeding frenzy that usually trashes the person in question by every Tom, Dick & Harry who owns a keyboard.

I also think it was wrong not to say in the original post that the barrel was installed when contact was made with Mr Pedersen but that a different barrel than the original one was preferred. I know of few gunsmiths who would have done this without a charge for barrel and labor.

I will not debate the fact that the communication could have been better but before I would have started all the things in motion that were started it seems a registered letter like was suggested above would have been a better deal than trashing a person's reputation, especially when changes were requested after the redoing of the project were almost finished.

I am also glad to see this coming to an end. I do think it behooves everyone who think they have a legitimate complaint to include ALL the facts if they choose to put it on the internet. Anything less is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. I would give the Hein thread as an example of the people who are affected being as upfront as possible and I commend them for that.


******************************
"We do not exaggerate when we state positively that the remodelled Springfield is the best and most suitable "all 'round" rifle".......Seymour Griffin, GRIFFIN & HOWE, Inc.
 
Posts: 845 | Location: Central Washington State | Registered: 12 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of JBrown
posted Hide Post
quote:
There are quite a few things that bother me about the original post. The biggest thing is why were important facts left out.


quote:
I do think it behooves everyone who think they have a legitimate complaint to include ALL the facts if they choose to put it on the internet. Anything less is unacceptable as far as I am concerned.


I agree with the above. Several time lately these type of threads have popped-up. Once the whole story comes out things look much different.

It is always best to hear both sides. The problem is that the business owner often would like to stay out of a pissing contest.

These dust-ups are bad for the reputation of both parties, bout the business owner is the only one who stands to have his lively-hood affected. Even if the truth clears the accused of wrong doing, too many people miss the resolution. For this reason I am inclined to direct my future purchases towards businessmen that have been wronged on the net.

Case in point- Cutrifle and Russ Gould



Jason


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6286 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of 303Guy
posted Hide Post
quote:
... I am inclined to direct my future purchases towards businessmen that have been wronged on the net.
I don't know if this would be a general rule but I agree totally in this case! I would most certainly like to do business with Mr Pedersen aka cutrifle.
And because I am not unique, I do believe other folks feel the same. Best wishes to him! beer Cheers!

quote:
.... Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure."
Hey ....! That's good advice! thumb


Regards
303Guy
 
Posts: 2518 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 October 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of Michael Robinson
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Idared:
First off I have no axe to grind in this but in a lot of ways I have to agree with Phil on it. There are quite a few things that bother me about the original post. The biggest thing is why were important facts left out. If I read this correctly Mr Pedersen simply sold the original barrel to someone. This person in turn sold it to another person who re-contoured it and installed it on an action. From here it went to another person who installed the sights and finished the rifle. I think all this should have been included in the original post to give folks a better idea of what all was done with this barrel AFTER it left Mr Pedersen's shop. I think many people would have said there were too many things done outside of their control to even touch this barrel again. I think Mr Pedersen deserves a lot of credit for even looking at it let alone replacing it. I would have at most furnished another barrel and let the folks who did the original work replace it especially after it was re-contoured.

The time frames that don't agree is also a bad sign to me. I feel a person needs to be totally accurate about these when putting them on an internet site which almost always turns out to be a feeding frenzy that usually trashes the person in question by every Tom, Dick & Harry who owns a keyboard.

I also think it was wrong not to say in the original post that the barrel was installed when contact was made with Mr Pedersen but that a different barrel than the original one was preferred. I know of few gunsmiths who would have done this without a charge for barrel and labor.

I will not debate the fact that the communication could have been better but before I would have started all the things in motion that were started it seems a registered letter like was suggested above would have been a better deal than trashing a person's reputation, especially when changes were requested after the redoing of the project were almost finished.

I am also glad to see this coming to an end. I do think it behooves everyone who think they have a legitimate complaint to include ALL the facts if they choose to put it on the internet. Anything less is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. I would give the Hein thread as an example of the people who are affected being as upfront as possible and I commend them for that.


Well said, and I agree with all of it.

But I would place more emphasis on the ABSOLUTE NEED for good and responsive communications in gunsmithing as in any business enterprise.

Returning phone calls and emails may be a pain in the neck, but it is ESSENTIAL to good business practice and MUST BE DONE.


Mike

Edited on advice of counsel.
 
Posts: 12413 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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I think I'll stick to gunsmiths that I can get ahold of when I need to.

I've been down the road x-ring describes.

The only drama I want to pay for is at the movies.

Garrett
 
Posts: 987 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With Quote
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