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Posts: 2831 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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A lot of time and effort into making a really fine looking rifle*** but does it shoot? Confused roger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Indeed! Unfortunately, no range report. However, if it has a good bore, it should be MOA as many Mosins are.
 
Posts: 2831 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Sorry fellas trying to pretty up a Moisin is like putting lip stick on a pig.

Jim


"Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson

 
Posts: 5933 | Location: Richmond, Virginia | Registered: 17 September 2000Reply With Quote
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In the end what you have is, well, a Mosin-Nagant. Those things were the AK of their day- dead simple, rugged, and intended for use by semi-literate peasants. That doesn't make them bad by any means, just not candidates for conversion into fine sporters. Just my opinion, others may vary.
 
Posts: 305 | Location: Annapolis,Md. | Registered: 24 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Pretty is as pretty does.




Aut vincere aut mori
 
Posts: 4750 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Unique, if nothing else.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Yeah, it's a beauty ! Especially the plastic inlays. Look like a Korean war bringback with heavy handed Jap engraving. The only accurate Mosins were those rebuilt by SAKO.
Kinda like a real Dodge Power Wagon ..... crude but functional!
As for Mike, a pretty Mauser, but with all that drop, no fun to shoot in any serious caliber. Stock look like a design on a "between the wars" "Guild Gun". About like this from 1930s on a shortened 03 but in 22 Hornet recoil is not an issue.

 
Posts: 801 | Location: Pinedale WY USA & Key West FL USA | Registered: 04 February 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by arkypete:
Sorry fellas trying to pretty up a Moisin is like putting lip stick on a pig.Jim

Roll EyesYou may be right, Arky, but than I figured that's what part of this thread is about ( silk purse sow's ear et all). Mission accomplished IMHO. beer roger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
The only accurate Mosins were those rebuilt by SAKO.


Where do you come up with this crap?

I don't particularly like Mosins because as you say they are crude. But, they are very functional and a lot more accurate than most give them credit for.


This little Mosin happens to be a tack driver.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...531008571#3531008571




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Posts: 4750 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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I have shot a lot of Mosins; they are one of the most accurate WW2 rifles; far more than the Mausers and M1s and right up there with the 03. Of course, good ammo is a big factor. As for the most accurate one, get the Finnish 28-30; they have true .308 bores instead of larger ones in the Russians and other Finns. The best shaped stock is the Finnish 39; big pistol grip stock and some of those were made by SAKO. I have a Finnish TKIV 85 sniper rifle that will shoot sub moa with match 308 bullets. They are strong and accurate rifles due to the way the massive bolt lugs can float, and are supported left and right instead of up and down like other rifles. Crude actions, but simple and strong. And cheap.
 
Posts: 14067 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Well z1r, If you read anything about the history of the Russian made rifles, you would know they were very crude and bore dimensions varied from .306- .313. The Finns captured many in their war with Russia and SAKO rebuilt them with new excellent barrels. The ones made in the USA also shot well but none ever were exported to Russia. They were used as training rifles and eventually sold off through the NRA. MosinNagant.net is a site you might wish to look at if you wish to learn about these rifles. You own how many ? Made where ? Have handloaded how much match grade ammo for yours ? You have sent how many rounds downrange from your collection ?
As a "military standard rifle" accuracy was not horrible, no worse or better than a lot of the crap various countries sent their troops out to fight with. But compared to any "real" 1903 Springfield, the ones built in Russia or by later/other Commie countries are never gonna win any long range matches.
BTW the way the in the link you posted I don't see any sub MOA groups and you apparently missed the fact that he was using a .311 bullet.
For what he has invested in this now worthless rifle he could have bought a decent old used 700 or a new Marlin bolt action.
No sporterized Mosin will ever be a "silk purse", fun to play with and OEM sniper scopes are available from Kalinka Optics.
I remember owning a Steyr 95 sporterized by RF Sedgley in the 1930s. It has a wonderful stock and a Winchester made 30-40 barrel. It was an MOA rifle, as a SAKO rebuilt Mosin can be if you have enough money. But the Steyr was still a 95 and the Mosin is still an ugly club.
It's best feature was it's huge OAL with a bayonet that allowed stabbing the other guy long before he could reach you.
If you must have one, then, as DCPD notes, get a SAKO one.
 
Posts: 801 | Location: Pinedale WY USA & Key West FL USA | Registered: 04 February 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
Well z1r, If you read anything about the history of the Russian made rifles, you would know they were very crude and bore dimensions varied from .306- .313. The Finns captured many in their war with Russia and SAKO rebuilt them with new excellent barrels. The ones made in the USA also shot well but none ever were exported to Russia. They were used as training rifles and eventually sold off through the NRA. MosinNagant.net is a site you might wish to look at if you wish to learn about these rifles. You own how many ? Made where ? Have handloaded how much match grade ammo for yours ? You have sent how many rounds downrange from your collection ?
As a "military standard rifle" accuracy was not horrible, no worse or better than a lot of the crap various countries sent their troops out to fight with. But compared to any "real" 1903 Springfield, the ones built in Russia or by later/other Commie countries are never gonna win any long range matches.
BTW the way the in the link you posted I don't see any sub MOA groups and you apparently missed the fact that he was using a .311 bullet.
For what he has invested in this now worthless rifle he could have bought a decent old used 700 or a new Marlin bolt action.
No sporterized Mosin will ever be a "silk purse", fun to play with and OEM sniper scopes are available from Kalinka Optics.
I remember owning a Steyr 95 sporterized by RF Sedgley in the 1930s. It has a wonderful stock and a Winchester made 30-40 barrel. It was an MOA rifle, as a SAKO rebuilt Mosin can be if you have enough money. But the Steyr was still a 95 and the Mosin is still an ugly club.
It's best feature was it's huge OAL with a bayonet that allowed stabbing the other guy long before he could reach you.
If you must have one, then, as DCPD notes, get a SAKO one.


The Finnish Mosins had heavier barrels, not exactly what most want on a sporting rifle. Great however if you want an as-issued rifle with an above average chance at being pretty accurate, no doubt.

The Finns tended to use barrels with .308" bores while Russian rifles tended to have bores of about .311". When the right diameter bullet is used they can indeed be very accurate. Since when did sub MOA groups become the norm for 100 year old battle rifles?

I happen to know that the rifle in my link was built for a very minimal investment and also know that it shot groups smaller than many off the shelf sporters on the market will shoot. I believe you will find that the owner had no illusions of turning it into a silk purse, instead he wanted a very inexpensive rifle that he could hunt game with. It had no problem dispatching that porker and that was the intended purpose of the build. Seems to me to to be a success when judged by HIS criteria.

There are many rifles out there that I don't particularly care for but if someone has one and it is suiting their needs, who am I to judge? As long as they are happy, let them be.

Amazing that you can't simply accept that others will have different wants, needs, opinions than your own and you constantly find the need to piss on other's parades.




Aut vincere aut mori
 
Posts: 4750 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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ConfusedCan't understand the sue-do arms art sophisticate sour grapes on this thread???? bewilderedroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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z1r, your basic problem is that you wish to be the "expert" on things you don't own, have never shot and know little of their history. Doubt you have ever seen or shot a US made Mosin or a gen-u-ine Finn sniper. Because I don't take your word as the premier expert, you call me names. Typical "hide behind the keyboard" tough guy.
I never said MOA was the standard for a battle rifle, but like most "HBTKBTGs" when the facts suit you not, you just make it up.
BTW how many WW II Russian and German vets do you know ? Find me one who would not happily swap his bolt action for an M-1 as a battle rifle or the sniper K98/Mosin for a USMC National Match based Unertl scoped 1903 Springfield. You may "know" what you read but I tend to doubt you have owned or shot many of the rifles you "talk" about at extended ranges or in competition. Ever seen or shot one of these ? It makes tiny little groups just as it did in WW ONE.



Bartsche, last time I looked, having an opinion was still allowed here. If you love crude Russian rifles that's fine and you, as I, are entitled to an opinion on them. They are a part of history as is a 7.7 Jap, but I don't plan on wasting a nickle on either as long as I can go out and buy a rifle like this for the same NET investment.
(That's, buy, plus improve, minus sell). This Marlin 270 that shoots bug holes and is by any measure far superior to the Russian fence post, cost me a NET of $60.00 AFTER I played with it for a year.



When and if I ever sell this 03, I'll be making a pile on it ..... thanks God it escaped shade tree sporterization !



IMHO that "engraved" Mosin with the Herter's inlays is butt ugly and, as with so many botched "sporterizations", has removed what MIGHT have been a historic rifle to create an abortion.
 
Posts: 801 | Location: Pinedale WY USA & Key West FL USA | Registered: 04 February 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
z1r, your basic problem is that you wish to be the "expert" on things you don't own, have never shot and know little of their history. Doubt you have ever seen or shot a US made Mosin or a gen-u-ine Finn sniper. Because I don't take your word as the premier expert, you call me names. Typical "hide behind the keyboard" tough guy.
I never said MOA was the standard for a battle rifle, but like most "HBTKBTGs" when the facts suit you not, you just make it up.
BTW how many WW II Russian and German vets do you know ? Find me one who would not happily swap his bolt action for an M-1 as a battle rifle or the sniper K98/Mosin for a USMC National Match based Unertl scoped 1903 Springfield. You may "know" what you read but I tend to doubt you have owned or shot many of the rifles you "talk" about at extended ranges or in competition. Ever seen or shot one of these ? It makes tiny little groups just as it did in WW ONE.



Bartsche, last time I looked, having an opinion was still allowed here. If you love crude Russian rifles that's fine and you, as I, are entitled to an opinion on them. They are a part of history as is a 7.7 Jap, but I don't plan on wasting a nickle on either as long as I can go out and buy a rifle like this for the same NET investment.
(That's, buy, plus improve, minus sell). This Marlin 270 that shoots bug holes and is by any measure far superior to the Russian fence post, cost me a NET of $60.00 AFTER I played with it for a year.



When and if I ever sell this 03, I'll be making a pile on it ..... thanks God it escaped shade tree sporterization !



IMHO that "engraved" Mosin with the Herter's inlays is butt ugly and, as with so many botched "sporterizations", has removed what MIGHT have been a historic rifle to create an abortion.


Uh, where did I call you names? Talk about making things up.




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Posts: 4750 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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I guess if one has nothing better to work with,thats hard to belive
 
Posts: 17284 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Guess you don't read what you type. You said I was "pissing on someone", that my friend is name calling.
Said all I needed to say, so I'll leave this thread to those who:
a) Destroy interesting historical rifles by "sporterizing" them. There are still fools wrecking mint 33-40s out there.
b) Like to pour money down a rathole that will never be recovered, by doing a) above.
 
Posts: 801 | Location: Pinedale WY USA & Key West FL USA | Registered: 04 February 2011Reply With Quote
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Well, seeing as it is not your money, who cares whether you believe the pursuit is worthwhile?

You do as you see fit with your money and let those that wish to pursue their dreams do so. What's it to you?

As for destroying historical rifles, that's hysterical.

If people weren't depleting the numbers of some of these rifles, they wouldn't be so rare, would they? I suppose the fact that it makes thier value go up upsets those looking for an inexpensive example but delights those that already have one.

If describing what you are doing is name calling, then so be it.

You must be a very sensitive individual?




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Posts: 4750 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Mike,

45-70 shooter is Larry Root. Larry Root is a first class troll, moron, and also a compulsive liar.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Craigster,

Thanks for the affirmation. Kinda had that feeling.

Cheers!




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Posts: 4750 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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tu2Shade tree sporterization! Great term and they were the only deer and elk rifles I used for many hard time years. Roll Eyes
Included in my travesty were 03s, 93,95, 96, and 98 Mausers, various Enfields, a couple Carcanos and a number of Arasakas, one Fin and one Russian 7.62x54. My last hatchet job was a mint French MAS . shocker Made me happy. clap roger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Well...I have a goal to shoot a whole bunch of animals (other than Brown Bear and the big 5) with my $200 rifle..I think a cow elk should be next


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9451 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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old I believe that every one has the right to express their opinions! I also believe that some peoples' opinions SUCK. That"s my opinion. animal roger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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You also have a right to be stupid, that I would never strip you of.

Noted that nobody defending wrecking a 33-40 to make a "sporter". "Selective wrecking" eh ?

Remember owning an interwar Mauser Werke solid bottom 98 single shot (Wehrmannsgewehr) in as new condition in 8.15x46. Some dolt kept trying to buy it from me to make into a 22-250 varmint rifle. Not only would that be criminal but those actions were not hardened for high pressure.
Happily it eventually found its way into a very advanced Mauser collection and will never be "sporterized".

Reminds me of what some people do to a 57 Chevy 283 F.I. Bel Air convertible.

Gump is right yet again!
 
Posts: 801 | Location: Pinedale WY USA & Key West FL USA | Registered: 04 February 2011Reply With Quote
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Larry Root = suction.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
Larry Root = suction.


Can't breathe, no air!




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Posts: 4750 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by 45-70 shooter:
You also have a right to be stupid,

moonGolly! I oncet was tolt I had a point 9 IQ. homer In the spirit of the season I wish you a Great Christmas clap That coal you get in your stocking may come in handy Whistling roger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by z1r:
quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
Larry Root = suction.


Can't breathe, no air!


Nor brains.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
quote:
Originally posted by z1r:
quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
Larry Root = suction.


Can't breathe, no air!


Nor brains.


And a class A D-bag. I thought the thread was progressing nicely.


Dave
 
Posts: 871 | Location: AKexpat | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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When you have nothing to say then attack the other person who does.
Worked for Obama, why not here as well ?

I suppose publishing my name is intended to intimidate me ?

Funny how much bandwidth is wasted being a keyboard commando rather than sticking to the forum's subject.

Keep on wrecking those classic military rifles as those if us who know better just watch ours become more and more valuable.

Happily this one will never get in a "wrecker's"
hands (You need to read Atlas Shrugged)

Merry Christmas !

 
Posts: 801 | Location: Pinedale WY USA & Key West FL USA | Registered: 04 February 2011Reply With Quote
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Here is my Mosin sporster. I use it for shooting grouse etc. big birds and it shoot well enough if bullet weight is 155 gr. max. Caliber is Finnis wildcat caliber 7x53R.




 
Posts: 410 | Location: Finland | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by igorrock:
Here is my Mosin sporster. I use it for shooting grouse etc. big birds and it shoot well enough if bullet weight is 155 gr. max. Caliber is Finnis wildcat caliber 7x53R.






I like it. What velocity do you get with those 155's?




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Posts: 4750 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by igorrock:
Here is my Mosin sporster. I use it for shooting grouse etc. big birds and it shoot well enough if bullet weight is 155 gr. max. Caliber is Finnis wildcat caliber 7x53R.

tu2 Looks like a silk purse to me. I'm sure it'll get the job done. claproger beer


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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I don't advocate the stripping of nice original U.S. martial arms to build a sporter- there are plenty of already Bubba'ed guns to work with. Foreign military rifles (those that are up to making a fine sporter out of to begin with) are fair game, IMO. A superb example, such as a G33/40, that would fall into my lap would be sold to buy something else, even though I don't give a whit for that stuff and only see their value as the basis for a sporter. Personally, I don't see a thing wrong with stripping a G33/40 or anything else of that ilk for its action- but I'm not dumb enough to do so when they have such bizarre high value to other folks.
 
Posts: 305 | Location: Annapolis,Md. | Registered: 24 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
What velocity do you get with those 155's?
Haven´t ever shot any of those heavier bullets in my rifle, normaly I use lighter 92,5 gr fmj bullet. Old LAPUA factory ammo with that bullet gives 880 meters per second which is a little less than 2900 feet per second
 
Posts: 410 | Location: Finland | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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Nice thread. Several years ago I settled an argument about the strength of Mosin actions (only the U.S. made Hex) by chambering one in 300WSM. I pulled the trigger with a string for 82 rounds and shoulder fired it for 50 more before I took it back apart. No lug setback, magnafluxed it and found no cracks, no change in headspace. As might be expected, the stock .312 bore (and twist) did not lend itself to extreme accuracy and may have lowered chamber pressure slightly but I was impressed. I still have the action and barrel, I may do something it yet.
 
Posts: 222 | Location: Central Iowa | Registered: 16 May 2009Reply With Quote
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No one on said they were not strong. i just don't find them very user freindly.
 
Posts: 17284 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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another on of mine, its not exactly sporterized but still very neat.
finn m28-76 target rifle
 
Posts: 107 | Location: alvin texas | Registered: 09 June 2008Reply With Quote
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old How does it shoot , dirty jim? beerroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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