Is the 338 federal dead?

02 December 2014, 08:17

Ray Alaska

quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
when all is said and done, it is nothing, more or less, than a marketing ploy to get someone to fill a need the marketing dept created to sell a few new rifles.

But one can say the same for every rifle ever built. There is not one rifle or handgun out there that does not have variants of the same caliber, or at least cartridges that are quite similar.

In the case of the .338 Federal, it's just another name for the .338-08 wildcat. There are numerous .30-caliber cartridges, .338-caliber cartridges, several .375's, and so on. That variety is what makes guns interesting.

02 December 2014, 09:33

Idaho Sharpshooter

true, Ray, but show me any caliber segment that can actually be improved by a lower velocity chambering.

I have an OM 70 in 300 Holland, so there is not much that interests me until I get my 9,3x62 stocked. I am going to get a 338 EDGE put together next summer, that is a 338 that interests me.

I think the short action phenomenon is another marketing ploy to sell new rifles for a created "need".

02 December 2014, 10:23

Ray Alaska

quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
true, Ray, but show me any caliber segment that can actually be improved by a lower velocity chambering.

I have an OM 70 in 300 Holland, so there is not much that interests me until I get my 9,3x62 stocked. I am going to get a 338 EDGE put together next summer, that is a 338 that interests me.

I think the short action phenomenon is another marketing ploy to sell new rifles for a created "need".

That's exactly the point I was trying to make; the variety or differences is what makes us interested in guns. I could agree about the WSM cartridges as being a marketing ploy, but not the .338 Federal. This cartridge, just like the .338-06, has been in wildcat form for year. With any cartridge, ammo availability for it is what keeps it alive.

That said, a lot of hunters and shooters shy away from certain cartridges that produce higher velocities and their added recoil. In fact, reduce-velocity loads are quite popular with a lot of people, and even factory reduced-velocity ammo is being produced these days.

While I use a .338 Magnum rifle for moose hunting (its my favorite), sometimes I wish that I had a .338-06 or even a .338 Federal. To me it's not necessarily the high velocity the .338WM provides what is important, but the bullet weight since I can close the distance to compensate for the lower velocity of the first two. While I may use bullet weights from 225 to 275 grains with the Magnum, for the .338 Federal I would choose a lighter bullet from 160 to perhaps 210 grains. After all, the larger bore works in favor of lower pressures.

02 December 2014, 16:32

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by Ray Alaska:
While I may use bullet weights from 225 to 275 grains with the Magnum, for the .338 Federal I would choose a lighter bullet from 160 to perhaps 210 grains. After all, the larger bore works in favor of lower pressures.

I agree. There isn't much a 210 Partition at 2600 FPS won't kill out to 300 yards. Every cartridge overlaps another. The nice thing about the 338 Federal is all you need is 308 brass and 338 bullets and you are good to go. You never have to worry about brass being discontinued. It's a safe cartridge to put your money in that will never become obsolete and will never die.

02 December 2014, 16:34

TX Nimrod

quote:
....show me any caliber segment that can actually be improved by a lower velocity chambering...

Plenty if long range accuracy is the goal. In .308" cartridges, the .308 has proven to be a far better long range (600 yards+) competition cartridge than the .30-06 was. Ditto the .260 Remington versus the .264 Winchester Magnum, the latter is virtually never seen on the shooting line any more. The .221 Fireball was designed to overcome the limitations of the .222 Remington in a 10" barrel. I could go on and on.

BTW I do not own a .338 Federal, but I do load my .338-06 to .338 Fed velocities when hunting here in Texas. The extra couple hundred fps is certainly not missed.....

.

02 December 2014, 17:03

theback40

To continue the why lower velocities...
I had some old Herters 200 grn rn softpoints I thought would be perfect for a woods load in my 338 fed. I loaded them to 2400 fps and shot a buck with the load this year. My hope was a load with minimal meat damage/bloodshot cleaning. Only partly successful, the bullets were softer then I expected, either slower or a stouter bullet needed.

02 December 2014, 17:59

vapodog

quote:
Is the 338 federal dead?

The better question is:....Was it ever alive?

02 December 2014, 18:01

vapodog

quote:
So 30-06 would solve most people gun needs, but we all know that cartridge is old outdated and no longer useful for any kind of hunting or target shooting.

Do we really ALL Know this?

02 December 2014, 18:04

vapodog

quote:
The nice thing about the 338 Federal is all you need is 308 brass

That's true, but if I had the .308 brass, all I need to do is to load it to the .308 and it'll do everything the .338 Federal will do and more.

What we really needed is a 9.3-08

02 December 2014, 19:16

theback40

I could say the .338 federal is perfect for this and that, or it fits in a light little package. But instead I will just say the Kimber I bought had nice wood, and felt nice.
I'm a gun whore, I can admit it, but Obomacare doesn't offer treatment.

03 December 2014, 05:15

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
quote:
The nice thing about the 338 Federal is all you need is 308 brass

That's true, but if I had the .308 brass, all I need to do is to load it to the .308 and it'll do everything the .338 Federal will do and more.

What we really needed is a 9.3-08

I know you've always been jealous of my 338 Federal.

03 December 2014, 09:02

Ray Alaska

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
quote:
The nice thing about the 338 Federal is all you need is 308 brass

That's true, but if I had the .308 brass, all I need to do is to load it to the .308 and it'll do everything the .338 Federal will do and more.

What we really needed is a 9.3-08

Not necessarily. What you get with the .338-caliber bullet is a bigger hole than a .30-caliber bullet.

03 December 2014, 17:20

vapodog

quote:
What you get with the .338-caliber bullet is a bigger hole than a .30-caliber bullet.

and we didn't get that with the .358 Winchester?

03 December 2014, 17:23

vapodog

quote:
I know you've always been jealous of my 338 Federal.

are we having fun here or what?

03 December 2014, 17:28

vapodog

When I go to Webster's dictionary and look up the word "redundancy", all I see is a photo of a .338 federal......it seems they think that says it all.....

04 December 2014, 01:46

416Tanzan

dudes and dudesses,

it's all a sliding cline, a compromise.

33/08 is a bigger hole than a 30/08, but slower at the same sectional density.

35/08 is a bigger hole than a 33, but even slower still at the same sectional density.

If someone tries to maintain sectional density and velocity, then recoil and muzzle energy go way up: a 338 (win mag) can send a 225 grain at 2825fps (~4000ftlbs). If one goes up to .416" then a person must shoot a 350 grain projectile at 2825fps (~6200ftlbs). The 225gn .338" and the 350gn .416" are both at about the same sectional density.

04 December 2014, 12:06

Norwegianwoods

Personally I don't see the point of the 338 Federal at all but trying to be different.

And that is totally fine if that is important to you

If you want something slower than the 338 Win Mag with a good bullet diameter and gentle recoil, then buy a 9.3x62.
Way better cartridge than the 338 Federal.
Even the old and close to obsolete 9.3x57 is a better choice in my opinion.

04 December 2014, 14:13

416Tanzan

quote:
Originally posted by Norwegianwoods:
Personally I don't see the point of the 338 Federal at all but trying to be different.

And that is totally fine if that is important to you

If you want something slower than the 338 Win Mag with a good bullet diameter and gentle recoil, then buy a 9.3x62.
Way better cartridge than the 338 Federal.
Even the old and close to obsolete 9.3x57 is a better choice in my opinion.

Even though I've not owned a 9.3x62, it is quite appealing on paper out to 300 yards.
And as many have noted, the 338WM and 375Ruger are more versatile and bang for buck in NorthAmerica. But hey, the 338Fed would be a great little round out to 250-275 yards.

04 December 2014, 16:40

LJS

Norwegianwoods: I have a 9.3x62 as well as a 338 Federal and believe me the Fed recoils a lot less. Two rifles of the same weight are much different recoiling. I would let my wife shoot the Fed but the 9.3 would not be fun for her.
If you look at every cartridge with a "comparison approach", you can find an improvement for everyone. A 308 is better than a 30-30 but an 06 is better than a 308 and a 300 Win is better and on and on.
We buy guns like a 338 Federal because it is fun to do so. I have had great results on big northern deer with my Fed but I can say the same with my 308 or 280 or 06. In reality they all work just fine for the job at hand.

04 December 2014, 18:09

wildcat junkie

What will a .338 federal do that an 8X57 loaded to similar pressure wouldn't do just as well & better at longer ranges?

The 8X57 can be loaded in Intermediate (3.2")length Mauser actions & most short action bolt guns. It would be a squeeze in the ridiculousy short Remington 700 but no more so than the 6mm Remington or .257 Roberts that are based on the same length case..

Reminton 700s only come in too short & too long actions. The "standard length" is actually magnum length & if the too short action was about 1/8" longer it would be more versitile for 57mm based case cartridges W/O adding significant weight.

quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

I think the short action phenomenon is another marketing ploy to sell new rifles for a created "need".

04 December 2014, 18:35

blacktailhunter

The bad thing about posts like this is that they lead naive hunters/shooters to believe that there is something wrong or inadequate with the 338 Federal. 3 years ago I became interested in the Federal, even though I my 30-06 and 308 hunting rifles were serving me just fine. I usually hunt elk and deer at least twice apiece, each year. We don't leave many tags unfilled in our party so the performance of various calibers get the real-world test. I for one am a huge fan of the caliber. Although I acquired it after my 30-06 and 308, it would be the last one that I'd let go. I've killed elk, whitetail and blacktail deer with it and it has performed excellently! It provides the power of the 30-06 in a shorter package that uses less powder and kicks less...and with the 200-210 grain bullets I use it's a better option for elk, in my opinion. Yes, you can put big bullets in the 308, but the velocity and trajectory really suffer. As previously stated, any caliber out there isn't really needed, we can argue about that on these websites until we're blue in the face. The important thing that people need to understand is that the 338 Federal is a very good cartridge, it's great on game, and a lot of fun to shoot. We commonly shoot water-filled milk jugs at 300-350 yards for practice during the off season. The trajectory of the Federal for this application is surprisingly good, this isn't just a short-range gun.

04 December 2014, 18:45

AnotherAZWriter

quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
dudes and dudesses,

it's all a sliding cline, a compromise.

33/08 is a bigger hole than a 30/08, but slower at the same sectional density.

35/08 is a bigger hole than a 33, but even slower still at the same sectional density.

If someone tries to maintain sectional density and velocity, then recoil and muzzle energy go way up: a 338 (win mag) can send a 225 grain at 2825fps (~4000ftlbs). If one goes up to .416" then a person must shoot a 350 grain projectile at 2825fps (~6200ftlbs). The 225gn .338" and the 350gn .416" are both at about the same sectional density.

Hit an animal in the lungs, and he will expel plenty of blood through is nose/mouth. If an animal bleeds from a bullet hole, it is the exit wound that provides the blood trail, and the size of that hole is more a function of bullet construction than caliber.

04 December 2014, 19:15

416Tanzan

quote:
What will a .338 federal do that an 8X57 loaded to similar pressure wouldn't do just as well & better at longer ranges?

Let's see, the 8x57 has about 4 grains more capacity and the 338Fed has 1/2 more calibre. Looks like a toss-up to me. Both are excellent cartridges that can be pushed to 300 yards or so. I would happily hunt most anything with either.

If someone wants to 'own' 400 yards, too, then they should move up
to a larger capacity like a 338WM. I would have recommended a 338Fed to my wife, or a 9.3x62, except for Tanzanian .375" minimum DG laws.

04 December 2014, 20:44

Bill Leeper

The truth is, virtually every cartridge based on the 308 parent case ends up being a pretty good cartridge. They usually only duplicate what can be accomplished with older cartridges but that's not a bad thing. Regards, Bill.

05 December 2014, 01:10

416Tanzan

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
The truth is, virtually every cartridge based on the 308 parent case ends up being a pretty good cartridge. They usually only duplicate what can be accomplished with older cartridges but that's not a bad thing. Regards, Bill.

Even though I don't own any, yet, 'cept a 243.

05 December 2014, 05:47

scottfromdallas

Truth is most big game cartridges are very effective to 300 yards. Very little practical difference if using appropriate bullets and proper shot placement. Arguing over why what someone else uses sux compared to your favorite cartridge is just plain stupid. Hunt with whatever floats your boat and the hell with what other jack asses on the interwebs think.

05 December 2014, 09:37

Ray Alaska

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
When I go to Webster's dictionary and look up the word "redundancy", all I see is a photo of a .338 federal......it seems they think that says it all.....

There always will be redundancies with all cartridges. There are numerous. 30-caliber cartridges (.300WM,.300 Weatherby, some .300 with short cases, some .300's that shoot .338 bullets, there are several based on the .308 and .30-06, all kinds of .338's. .375's). I could go on and on....

Don't believe me? You can start in this page, which only shows a few (there are much more):
http://www.accuratereloading.com/reload.html

But see...those minor differences may not make sense to you, but it does make sense to a lot of hunters and shooters.

05 December 2014, 16:12

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
When I go to Webster's dictionary and look up the word "redundancy", all I see is a photo of a .338 federal......it seems they think that says it all.....

It's strange, I must have an older version. When I looked up "redundancy" it had a picture to Vapodog?

05 December 2014, 16:55

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
When I go to Webster's dictionary and look up the word "redundancy", all I see is a photo of a .338 federal......it seems they think that says it all.....

It's strange, I must have an older version. When I looked up "redundancy" it had a picture to Vapodog?

....are we having fun or what?...

05 December 2014, 18:02

Snellstrom

quote:
Originally posted by blacktailhunter:
The bad thing about posts like this is that they lead naive hunters/shooters to believe that there is something wrong or inadequate with the 338 Federal. 3 years ago I became interested in the Federal, even though I my 30-06 and 308 hunting rifles were serving me just fine. I usually hunt elk and deer at least twice apiece, each year. We don't leave many tags unfilled in our party so the performance of various calibers get the real-world test. I for one am a huge fan of the caliber. Although I acquired it after my 30-06 and 308, it would be the last one that I'd let go. I've killed elk, whitetail and blacktail deer with it and it has performed excellently! It provides the power of the 30-06 in a shorter package that uses less powder and kicks less...and with the 200-210 grain bullets I use it's a better option for elk, in my opinion. Yes, you can put big bullets in the 308, but the velocity and trajectory really suffer. As previously stated, any caliber out there isn't really needed, we can argue about that on these websites until we're blue in the face. The important thing that people need to understand is that the 338 Federal is a very good cartridge, it's great on game, and a lot of fun to shoot. We commonly shoot water-filled milk jugs at 300-350 yards for practice during the off season. The trajectory of the Federal for this application is surprisingly good, this isn't just a short-range gun.

Very well said

05 December 2014, 20:00

Lapidary

You guys have been beating this one back and forth for about a month now, so I'd say it isn't dead at all.

My opinion is I don't care if it's dead or not, I'm taking mine out to hunt elk next year. I'm sure if I shoot an elk with it the elk won't care either.

07 December 2014, 02:37

vapodog

quote:
You guys have been beating this one back and forth for about a month now, so I'd say it isn't dead at all.

07 December 2014, 05:08

303carbine

The 338 Fed is not as cool as the 358 Win, the two can probably do the same job, but I don't have need of a 338 Fed.

07 December 2014, 22:33

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by 303carbine:
The 338 Fed is not as cool as the 358 Win, the two can probably do the same job, but I don't have need of a 338 Fed.

And the 358 Win is not as cool at the 350 Rem Mag. Just saying.

07 December 2014, 22:57

416Tanzan

350 Rem?
OK, a shorter, fatter, belted sister of the 35Whelen and 9.3x62. All of these are a step up in power from the 338Fed.

Since the 338Fed ballistics can be duplicated by downloading a standard length 338, the main purpose of the 338 is for an easy-handling, short-action rifle.

With the Tikka rifles I've gone to standard length rounds because the action is the same anyway. A 270Win, 280Rem, 7-08, 30-06, and 308 all use the same action. So I would recommend the longer rounds with their added loading options, whether full-power or downloaded and mildly restricted.

But for an action that is designed around the 243 or 308, the 338Fed would provide a smijin more energy and wound channel in a small package.
And that is pretty cool, too.

08 December 2014, 01:52

scottfromdallas

I was just making the point "cooler" is subjective. I think the 338 Fed is cooler than the 358 win. I think 338 bullets are cooler than 358 bullets. More cool choices in bullet designs and brands and better ballistic coefficients.

08 December 2014, 07:36

vapodog

quote:
More cool choices in bullet designs and brands and better ballistic coefficients.

that is a fact.....

09 December 2014, 02:45

Dr. Lou

The .358 is pure magic and Kimber should have chambered it's rifles for it instead of the 338. I wish Winchester would add it to the lineup to go with the venerable .264 WM.

19 January 2015, 03:51

scottfromdallas

Did a caliber search on the Savage website and Savage is now offering 6 rifles in 338 Fed including the hog and bear Hunter. Figured this was coming when ATK bought Savage.

30 January 2015, 04:35

deadibob

I love the 338 win mag, but there is one thing the 338fed will do that no one else has mentioned. It can be chambered in an AR10 style rifle with nothing more than a barrel swap. That alone makes it cool and something not many of these old cartridges being compared can do.

I'm not a big fan of the 338fed but i've never owned one. I do think having one in an AR-10 would be some seriously fun firepower.