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I did a test on felt recoil
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Having two boat paddle factory Ruger stocks I needed to shorten the roughest stock. I removed the recoil pad and the effort was somewhat problematic as to cutting it off and having room for the screws without a glass build up, now thats added work to an old gentleman such as myself as we tend to get lazy and like a town dog lay in the shade and take naps..BUT I found a steel butt plate that fit the existing holes and shortened the LOP to my desired length so I filed it to fit, screwed in on and BINGO, but its a .338 Win and has sufficient recoil so a field test was in order, knowing proper hold with snug pull both front and forward would be required and remembering a recoil pad only gives recoil a running start I cranked of half a dozen shots, 3 offhand and 3 off the bench...The results were better than expected in that with the proper hold recoil was well within my old limits, problem solved...More folks should try this..I built a couple of big bores some time back with Talley and Neidner steel buttplates with the same results...recoil is subjective to the individual, and I consider myself somewhere in the middle, my limits have changed with age and recoil is more bothersome to me these days, but I can get by with steel and a PROPER HOLD, Hold her tight works for me..Might be worth a try for some, dunno??


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 39459 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I manage to do without pads on my shotguns and tend to worry more about getting smacked in the chops than the shoulder, even with big rifles.

That said, one of the few times I can recall being bothered at the shoulder was with my little sporterised Greek MS before I replaced the metal butt plate. I think, maybe, the screws were a bit proud.
 
Posts: 4339 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Felt recoil is really very subjective.

I know a young girl 11yoa about 80lbs who most likely would say recoil I love it.

She is so excited about hunting. Her enthusiasm is astonishing.

Her dad and I need to dampen it a bit. I think she would pick up a lite 3.5 12ga fire it and smile. Just to say she could.

We are working her up as she gets older and stronger.

I loaded some 130gr sp for her at about 2300 for her 308 deer rifle.

By the time she is 15 or 16 she well be shooting big bores with a smile.
 
Posts: 17879 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Well I'm a recoil wuss. I have Decelerator pads on all of my rifles and in addition I use a Limbsaver slip on pad. I have really long arms so that's my excuse, I take the slip ons off when the rifle gets home. It does make a difference.


Regards,

Chuck



"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
 
Posts: 4238 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: 01 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Two points;
1: I am not surprised that the boat paddle stock did not change recoil with a steel butt plate, because they don't have recoil pads in the first place. Just a hard rubber pad that absorbs zero recoil.
2: Lighter shooters feel less recoil because their flexible bodies move rearward and spread the force over a longer distance, whereas larger, solid shooters do not move and the force is totally absorbed over a shorter distance. Which is why really heavy recoiling guns, like a 155 Artillery, or a 120, M256 Tank Cannon, spread their recoil over at least a foot, and more.
It's that physics thing again.
Also why, for muzzle loading artillery, which have no integral recoil dampening mechanism, gunners were taught to place the guns on smooth ground. Never in mud, rocks, or ruts. The wheels must be free to move; otherwise you will break the axles.
 
Posts: 14998 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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I agree NPCD but additionaly there is so much BS out there on recoil its comical IMO..such as the fabled wide rifle butt that is alleged to absorb recoil, Im convienced that and the overly thick comb is an old wives tale that some scribe made up as it seemed likely and many a custom stocker played the game and drank the koolaide, all this BS sold custom guns and was passed on by those who failed to actually test it, thus most of my guns ended up with steel checkered butt plates and narrow combs cut so as not to "slice the cheek", even the British figured this out a hundred years ago, and removed all that extra bulk wood, and I don't need a 14 inch forend, 9" max with a barrel band swivel suits me fine...

stir sofa


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 39459 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I didn't like those boat paddle stocks it knocked the crap out of your cheek in 338 win mag and my 264 win mag .I put boyds laminated stocks on both rifles and shot 1 inch groups at 200 yards and they felt like they kicked half as much . Those boat paddle stocks cost ruger $12 to make at the time and they were hard to sell they were so ugly . They sold a ton of them. In Alaska at Fred Myers in 338 win mag .Its a tough stock but sucks shooting it .I made awesome rifles out if my guns by sell those stocks they sell for $250 now collectors plastic .I like the feel of the laminated stock and it's accuracy .My 338 win mag and 264 win mag both are nicer rifles without those plastic stocks .
 
Posts: 2506 | Registered: 21 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Im no fan of composite or laminated stocks, prefer Turkish walnut..but I need one rifle to serve all in the worst of inclimate weather, and on the light side of heavy....I chose the tough as hell boat paddle and Im more than sadisfied, recoil? its there but hasn't killed or injured me lately..and no problem on my cheek, guess your face is fatter than mine, as Im lean working on getting fatter with age! Big Grin

I may even install a muzzle brake with a thread protector for bench rest work..always an option except for those sadistic souls who roam the internet, and make big smoke on their manhood. rotflmo


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 39459 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Best cure for recoil sensitivity is to shoot my 500 Jeffery three times from the bench. Then our little 416 Rem and 375 Weatherby don't kick at all lol


Regards,

Chuck



"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
 
Posts: 4238 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: 01 January 2008Reply With Quote
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When my middle son turned 13 I bought him a Browning BSS in 12G. # 1 son, his older brother did as all older brothers do, told him there was no way he could handle the recoil. Well, he did what younger brothers do to all older brothers; proved him wrong. He's 40 now + still has that Browning.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 16899 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by NormanConquest:
When my middle son turned 13 I bought him a Browning BSS in 12G. # 1 son, his older brother did as all older brothers do, told him there was no way he could handle the recoil. Well, he did what younger brothers do to all older brothers; proved him wrong. He's 40 now + still has that Browning.
The hardest kicking gun I have is a 20 gauge Franchi Falconet(te?) with 3" chambers. It has 20 inch bbls (Cyl/Imp Cyl) and weighs under 6 lbs. It's a great grouse gun for the woods of Indiana.

I also have a canoe-paddle Ruger 77 in .338 and my shoulder tells me there ain't no comparison: the .338 is nothing next to that Franchi.
 
Posts: 883 | Location: Grants Pass, OR | Registered: 24 September 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:

LLighter shooters feel less recoil because their flexible bodies move rearward and spread the force over a longer distance, whereas larger, solid shooters do not move and the force is totally absorbed over a shorter distance.


I don't know how many times I have heard this logic, but if it is true then why don't flyweight boxers rule the heavyweight division ?


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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458Win, I am an old skinny guy who hunts with a 577NE and used to be a boxer. I'm gonna go with dpcd on this one.
Cheers and keep your "punches in bunches", Brian
 
Posts: 3159 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Canada:
458Win, I am an old skinny guy who hunts with a 577NE and used to be a boxer. I'm gonna go with dpcd on this one.
Cheers and keep your "punches in bunches", Brian


Well being a boxer I guess you should know. But you are saying that it takes more to knock out a lightweight boxer than a heavyweight?


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Nope, Not saying that.
 
Posts: 3159 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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Then I am kind of fuzzy about your logic that heavy recoil affects smaller and lighter people less than it does big heavy people


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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I believe that dcpd has a point that makes sense. I also believe that people are different and that there are people who are soft for lack of a better word snd others who are tougher or harder for lack of a better description. Also, people perceive noise,pain and discomfort differently. This is based on observation over many decades at the range. I remember going to the range with a lightweight 308 Winchester and shooting off the bench and one of my friends shot it and said it hurt and said the recoil was terrific. Many others who shot it the same way never complained and enjoyed shooting it. I don’t even feel it and have never been too recoil shy no matter what I shoot. Everyone must choose what’s acceptable to them.. that’s is the only thing that matters in the end.
 
Posts: 793 | Registered: 25 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Clayman, that is true but it's not what was claimed

Lighter shooters feel less recoil because their flexible bodies move rearward and spread the force over a longer distance, whereas larger, solid shooters do not move and the force is totally absorbed over a shorter distance.

Recoil forces are the same, just a a punch from a heavyweight boxer would be.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Then I am kind of fuzzy about your logic


Oh well. No worries. Brian
 
Posts: 3159 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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It's called rolling with the punches (whether you plan it or not)!

For instance If a baseball pitcher threw a fast ball to you and your hand was against a brick wall it would probably hunt!

If the same pitcher threw you a fast ball and you had the ability to move your hand back way from the ball whether you planned it or not it would hurt much less!

Hip
 
Posts: 947 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Hipshoot, That is a perfect way to describe it. Simple.

I will use that next time and not the boxing metaphore.

I know big strong Boer Ph's who are built like the proverbial brick outhouse. ( or "long drop" as they would say, Chuckle.) who think that I am a tough guy when I shoot my big bore single shot. I tell them that the opposite is true, I am such a wimp that I get rolled back six inches with the recoil and I don't suffer at all. A video of me shooting my 577NE with with heavy loads makes me look more like a rag doll.
Of course you have relax which is part of the secret, isn't it. Same as with martial arts.

On a side note, I notice that some of these celeb peacocks on YouTube shooting buff with their 577 NE have them loaded way down to what looks like 45-70 loads. ( The cape buffalo that they hit twice square in the shoulder just trots off and they have to find him and give him a couple more rounds from their 577NE before he goes down.)
You will see that a cape buffalo hit once properly with a full load 577NE and a proper bullet soft or solid usually goes down right away.
 
Posts: 3159 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hipshoot:
It's called rolling with the punches (whether you plan it or not)!

For instance If a baseball pitcher threw a fast ball to you and your hand was against a brick wall it would probably hunt!

If the same pitcher threw you a fast ball and you had the ability to move your hand back way from the ball whether you planned it or not it would hurt much less!

Hip


So a fast ball caught by a smaller man hurts less than a fast ball caught by a smaller man ?
Or a punch in the face or shoulder hurts less the smaller the person ?


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
So a fast ball caught by a smaller man hurts less than a fast ball caught by a smaller man ?
Or a punch in the face or shoulder hurts less the smaller the person ?


Only if all the dynamics are equal.

But they can hardly ever be.

So many factor's come into play that there can not be a hard and fast rule.
 
Posts: 17879 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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A person or object that moves away from an object hitting him/it takes energy away from whatever is hitting him/it! It really makes no difference the size of what is being hit it is the speed and distance moving in the same direction!

Hip
 
Posts: 947 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Im pretty sure of what Chuck said, If you shoot a 500 or 577 for awhile, then pick up your 458 or .375 they become a cakewalk...Thats how I learned to shoot my old 505...I found the loading a big bore down was a waste of time as to developing the ability to handle recoil, thats like saying that shooting a 243 helps one handle a 458 win..never worked for me..If you focus it will dawn on you that recoil has yet to kill or mame anyone, sore ya up perhaps, but what the hay, so does golf...


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 39459 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
quote:
Originally posted by Hipshoot:
It's called rolling with the punches (whether you plan it or not)!

For instance If a baseball pitcher threw a fast ball to you and your hand was against a brick wall it would probably hunt!

If the same pitcher threw you a fast ball and you had the ability to move your hand back way from the ball whether you planned it or not it would hurt much less!

Hip


So a fast ball caught by a smaller man hurts less than a fast ball caught by a smaller man ?
Or a punch in the face or shoulder hurts less the smaller the person ?


458,
Reread the first line of my post!!!

Hip
 
Posts: 947 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I did, and big guys can not roll with punches as well as small guys ?

The fallacy that small people can handle heavy recoil better than larger guys is typically spread by big guys who don't like recoil.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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458Win, Now you have me confused. I thought you had to be half smart to be an Alaska Master Guide. ( lol, No offence, friend, I'm just kidding you.) Brian
 
Posts: 3159 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
I did, and big guys can not roll with punches as well as small guys ?

The fallacy that small people can handle heavy recoil better than larger guys is typically spread by big guys who don't like recoil.
 
Posts: 7397 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of 458Win
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Canada:
458Win, Now you have me confused. I thought you had to half smart to be an Alaska Master Guide. ( lol, No offence, friend, I'm just kidding you.) Brian


Thanks Brian, half smart gives me quite abit more credit than most folk do


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Phil, Same here! Brian
 
Posts: 3159 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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I'm gonna stay outa this! Nobody listens to me----mostly my wife!!!

Hip
 
Posts: 947 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Hipshoot, Ha Ha! Good one. Me too. Brian
 
Posts: 3159 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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458, I agree. The point that Inwas attempting to make is that there are many variables in felt recoil as well as many variables in shooters themselves.
 
Posts: 793 | Registered: 25 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Actual Recoil can be calculated mathematicly just as muzzle energy or velocity can.
The shape and fit of the stock certainly have a bearing on how it is transferred to the shooter, but it still gets transferred to the shooter.
How they describe it seems to be infinitely variable.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
How they describe it seems to be infinitely variable


The actual force can be calculated to a number.

How it is handled is infinitely variable.

As the shooters themselves.

Size, exspearince how the firearm fits ect, ect.
 
Posts: 17879 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Well I had it all figured out, now Im so confused!! so much for backyard testing!!! rotflmo


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 39459 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Recoil is a lot like insults
Some folks ignore it, roll with the punch and carry on
While others are easily hurt


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot & CFII
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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458Win, Well put! I get a kick out of that, pun intended. Brian
 
Posts: 3159 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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Recoil never bothered me! In most cases the harder it kicked the better I liked it!

AS ONG AS I WAS NOT THE ONE SHOOTING THE RIFLES !!! Big Grin Roll Eyes Eeker

I really liked to watch others shoot them---Saaed has some awsome videos!

Hip
 
Posts: 947 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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