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Twist Rate question ( Updated post with pics ) Further Update of Range results with p
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posted
Looking to pick the brains of knowledgeable shooters here please.

I am looking at having a barrel made in 300 Blaser Magnum, Stainless, 24 inch, to predominantly shoot Hornady ELD-X 178 gn bullets. I handload and would hope to work up a load for around 3000 - 3150 fps. My thinking is that a 1:10 twist, similar to my 300 Win Mag, would work OK but is an alternative twist rate a much better option or doesn't it matter that much in this type of calibre ?
Yes, this is not exactly a common calibre. I have had dies and brass for a while and the only way I'll get to use them is to barrel a rifle in this calibre.

Thanks for any replies.
Cheers


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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Picture of dpcd
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Being a unique cartridge does not matter; caliber, bullet weight and velocity, do.
You already know this. No need to reinvent the wheel.
 
Posts: 15068 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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10 or 12 would work just fine.
both have been used in the 30-30, 308, 30-06 etc. over the years and nobody really knew the difference or complained about it.

some AR-10's [Armalite] have been made with an 11 twist, and some 30 cal. F-class rifles with a 13.
nobody really noticed or cared there either.
 
Posts: 4420 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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1 in 10 is the best. You can't over stabilize.


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9639 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
Being a unique cartridge does not matter; caliber, bullet weight and velocity, do.
You already know this. No need to reinvent the wheel.


Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about.

I had a long discussion with a salesman at Holland and Holland of Bond Street, London.

He said the 240 H&H, shooting a 100 grain, .243 bullet, at 2900 fps, kills much better than a 243 Winchester shooting a 100 grain, .243 caliber bullet at the same velocity! rotflmo


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 60519 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
1 in 10 is the best. You can't over stabilize.


This
 
Posts: 17946 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
Being a unique cartridge does not matter; caliber, bullet weight and velocity, do.
You already know this. No need to reinvent the wheel.


Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about.

I had a long discussion with a salesman at Holland and Holland of Bond Street, London.

He said the 240 H&H, shooting a 100 grain, .243 bullet, at 2900 fps, kills much better than a 243 Winchester shooting a 100 grain, .243 caliber bullet at the same velocity! rotflmo


Or the 6mm rem or the 257 rob or the ??? Wink
 
Posts: 17946 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of chuck375
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
1 in 10 is the best. You can't over stabilize.


This


Yes!

But (off topic a bit) I do have to say 1 in 10 is a little fast in my 500 Jeffery. If I load the 570g bullets to 2500 fps the rifle wants to turn in my left hand a bit when shooting offhand. At 2300 fps I don't notice it. Maybe someone can explain that to me?


Regards,

Chuck



"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
 
Posts: 4240 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: 01 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
1 in 10 is the best. You can't over stabilize.


This


X2

Zeke
 
Posts: 1932 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
1 in 10 is the best. You can't over stabilize.


WRONG ASSUMPTION-
Yes you can over stabilize a projectile & once you peel the jacket off the core you will have a gray spot at your target @100yds.

The larger the diameter the more radial mass present to destroy itself.


Keep'em in the X ring,
DAN

www.accu-tig.com
 
Posts: 404 | Location: Fairbanks,AK. | Registered: 30 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Dans40XC:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
1 in 10 is the best. You can't over stabilize.


WRONG ASSUMPTION-
Yes you can over stabilize a projectile & once you peel the jacket off the core you will have a gray spot at your target @100yds.

The larger the diameter the more radial mass present to destroy itself.


In 1890 the Italians had problem with bullet quality they did solve it by a secret barrel technology in the 1891 6,5mm Carcano with gain twist. Other nations improved bullet and jacket technology so 5 years later they didn`t have any twist related problems.
 
Posts: 3605 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 02 May 2009Reply With Quote
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Thanks Gents all.
Appreciate the feedback.
Now have the barrel on order. 1:10 twist.
Now the waiting.....


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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Does any barrel manufacturer currently produce a barrel with a twist rate for a given caliber that would cause a bullet to "self destruct" from the twist rate being too fast?


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9639 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Does any barrel manufacturer currently produce a barrel with a twist rate for a given caliber that would cause a bullet to "self destruct" from the twist rate being too fast?


Mike,
The short answer is yes BUT you have to do something so radical with regards to velocity and bullet weight that, for most of us mortals, it's almost impossible.
My buddy built a extra-fast twist 7mm RUM Improved and with certain looong bullets, it would self destruct when it left the barrel.
This make cleaning the copper out of the groves a real challenge!
Radical-yes, possible-yes, probable-no.

Zeke
 
Posts: 1932 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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Zeke,

That sounds counter intuitive because bullet length is what really drives twist rate requirement. So really long bullets need faster twist rates. Do you know what the twist rate, velocity and bullet it was?


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9639 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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The twist rate WAS appropriate for the long bullet but the bullet couldn't hold up to the rotational force and produce a puff of grey smoke.
I'll get details beyond what I provided.

Zeke
 
Posts: 1932 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Thank you, I would appreciate the info. I see the destructive rotational force being driven by an excessive amount of velocity.


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9639 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I got some more details.

7mm Ultra Mag Improved
Berger bullets.
3 groove custom barrel (After the issue, the maker said it was never designed to be used at those velocities with that bullet).
The supposed issue is the velocity and twist out of a 3 groove barrel with some bullets.
Sierras held together.
I didn't know it but one of our other buds still owns and shoots the gun.
He had to get off the phone and work before I could ask the twist rate.
There ya go.

Zeke
 
Posts: 1932 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Zeke - thanks to for the info.


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9639 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Does any barrel manufacturer currently produce a barrel with a twist rate for a given caliber that would cause a bullet to "self destruct" from the twist rate being too fast?


Not sure about this.

But, I have vaporized normal SP bullets in very fast 22 wildcats.

They never hit the target.

Then I thought of firing them in the air, looking at the sky in the scope.

I could clearly see the mist clap

It was fun playing tricks at friends shooting out in the desert.

I used to slip them a round of these, and we all laughed as the missed!


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 60519 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Does any barrel manufacturer currently produce a barrel with a twist rate for a given caliber that would cause a bullet to "self destruct" from the twist rate being too fast?


Not sure about this.

But, I have vaporized normal SP bullets in very fast 22 wildcats.

They never hit the target.

Then I thought of firing them in the air, looking at the sky in the scope.

I could clearly see the mist clap

It was fun playing tricks at friends shooting out in the desert.

I used to slip them a round of these, and we all laughed as the missed!


Great trick but might be a little rough on barrels if they copper badly.

I'm still laughing

Zeke
 
Posts: 1932 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of Fjold
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Interesting, I've shot the 36 grain Branes Varmint Grenades out of my three groove PACNor barrel at over 4,600 FPS successfully. (250 AI)

Since they're a monometal bullet the rotational stress is probably less than a bullet with a heavy lead core.


Frank



"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite

 
Posts: 12171 | Location: Bakersfield CA. USA | Registered: 30 December 2002Reply With Quote
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All mine have been 1x10, but I have seen mmore than a few 1x12s that would shoot any bullet into tiny groups, soooo, its a crap shoot..Some years ago I had an 06 Ackley that shot pin holes with its 1x12 but I never could tell the Ackley version added a thing to my std 30-06 but thats another subject..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 39569 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I think you'll be fine with 1 in 10 for 178's. But, you may need to push your powder to the upper end of it's range to get into that 3,000 plus velocity range. Have fun. Keep us posted please. I'm curious as to how fast you can go before groups begin to open up.


Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
 
Posts: 4521 | Location: Near Hershey PA | Registered: 12 October 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
custombolt
posted 22 August 2021 13:54
I think you'll be fine with 1 in 10 for 178's. But, you may need to push your powder to the upper end of it's range to get into that 3,000 plus velocity range. Have fun. Keep us posted please. I'm curious as to how fast you can go before groups begin to open up.


Custombolt,
Happy to post the results of good load data developed. As the Blaser Mag case has a fraction more capacity I'm not expecting great difficulty in matching speed of my current favourite 300 Win Mag load at 3080 fps with Hornady ELD-X 178 gn. Repeatable accuracy is king so will settle for an acceptable velocity achieving this.
My 300 Win Mag load is upper end and below book max but just shows pressure indicators. 300 Blaser Mag Trial loads will use the same powders I used in developing 300 Win Mag loads so those heavier charges will be closely watched.
The barrel I'm having made should be finished and fitted later this coming week but how soon I get it is subject to Lockdown Level 4 ( the highest ) currently enforced here. Bloody Covid ! Current Lockdown period expires Tuesday but from reports I believe this will be extended, maybe a further 7 days. Talking to my neighbour today, a two shop sporting clothing retailer, who was a bit down as she fears Lockdown will continue even longer. Anyway, will post info as soon as I actually get some shots downrange.
Yes, thankyou, that will definitely be fun.


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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Its easy enough to get 3000 fps with a 180 gr. bullet with a 24 inch barrel with several RL powders, but thats about it, and its even easier with a 26" barrel of course...in the 300 win mag and the old 300 H&H for that matter..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 39569 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Guys,
An update of my initial post with a few pics showing results of some load development with my new 300 Blaser Magnum.
There is a bit of a background story. Some years ago I obtained a 300 BM barrel for my R93 Blaser. At the same time I obtained a FL CH4D Titanium Nitrided Die and on special order 300 pieces of brass from Norma. I never managed to produce any satisfactory loads and never hunted the barrel. Despite rubbing shoulders with the 300 Win Mag, a calibre I love and do shoot, I never lost interest in somehow having a 300 BM rifle but couldn't work out a way to do it. Then one day here I saw a guy trying to sell a Tikka rifle fitted with an aftermarket barrel in 7mm Blaser Mag. The case head size is the same as the 300 Blaser Mag. I contacted the seller and he confirmed the Tikka magazine easily took the rounds and he didn't need to machine the Tikka bolt as the magnum bolt face worked just fine. That was the lightbulb moment. I just needed to find a barrel maker here who had the necessary reamer. One guy I found had a reamer and would cut the chamber but not a 30 cal barrel !!! Mad He makes a 7mm wildcat based on the 300 Blaser Mag case and after a phone call and two emails he refused to communicate any further. He told me want I wanted wouldn't work in a Tikka rifle !! Roll Eyes
I've had dealings with Hugh Bradley here who used to be the NZ Blaser dealer. As long as I have known Hugh he has also been a gunsmith and he just happened to have the right reamer and was prepared to make a barrel an fit it to a Tikka. So a new donor Left Hand rifle was promptly obtained from my favourite gunshop and off to Hugh it went. The brief was to make a Stainless Steel, 24 inch, 1:10 twist, free floated, contoured to 17.50 mm at the muzzle, fluted barrel bead blasted to matt finish. Getting the finished rifle back was delayed a bit by Lockdown complications but I did the contactless collection from the gunshop on 18 October.
Happily, I broke out the Norma brass and made some initial loads with RL26, AR2213sc ( H4831sc), AR2217 ( H1000 ), AR2225 ( Retumbo ), Federal Magnum 215 Primers, Hornady ELD-X 178 gn bullets. All but the AR2225 showed potential at the first range session. I was pleased to see AR2213sc showing promise because it's a favourite for some 300 Win Mag loads and I recently bought a quantity from a new shipment. AR2217 also showed promise so the next batch of trial loads included both AR2217 and AR2213sc and I shot these at the range this morning. Groups were shot at 200 yds and I think I might have a couple of loads to settle on. A final range session shooting the selected loads at 200, 250, 300 and 400 yds will determine whether I settle on these loads and continue to use them. Hopefully next week sometime, weather permitting.
These loads are not producing anything my 300 Win Mag won't and if anything I think recoil, or at least felt recoil, might be a bit stiffer with the Blaser Mag with the same powder charge, bullet, rifle make / model ( my 300 Win Mag is also a Tikka T3x ) fitted with the same scope. But, at the same time velocity might be a tad higher although this may be attributable to the barrel itself ( ? ). Possibly I could push the load with AR2213sc a bit further but the case is already close to completely full and I'm not that keen on compressed loads. The AR2217 load is lightly compressed and I won't push it beyond that.
I've also managed to get the first 300 Blaser Mag kill today while still in load development ! Behind the target berm is a high sandbank that catches the spent bullets. Bullets hitting there frequently throw up small sand spurts that get noticed by inquisitive Magpies. I was lined up on a target square when through the scope I saw two Magpies flutter down to investigate one of the sand spurts, no doubt thinking an easy meal was on offer. I thought "what the hell" and swapped out my trial round for one of the fouler rounds and lined up. I held a bit low on center mass and the shot took the Magpie through the centre of the neck. I was already having a good morning but that was the cherry on top. Shooting Magpies is testing and great marksman practise.
Just F.Y.I. the new rifle came with the standard magazine that fits 3 rounds of 300 Win Mag. Due to the diameter of the 300 Blaser Mag case this magazine is limited to 2 rounds which I find a bit restrictive. I purchased a 5 round magazine which comfortably fit 4 rounds of 300 BM and is much more suitable for goat culling outings.
Although it may be nothing more than a 300 Win Mag kissing cousin I am nevertheless happy to have a working 300 Blaser Mag. I'm sure using it will bring great enjoyment. The first serious outing will be some goat culling whenever we get past these restrictive Lockdowns here.
Hope you enjoy the pics guys.
Cheers

New Toy - Happy Days




AR2213sc


AR2217


Magpie location


Magpie closeup


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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think I'd be pretty damn happy with it too.
good velocity, good bullet weight, and good groups.

zero excuses.
 
Posts: 4420 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Got to the range again today to shoot two loads ( 3 shot groups ) at 200, 250, 300 and 400 yds to confirm scope settings and record drops at the different ranges.
The load with AR2213sc ( H4831sc ) will become my standard and the load with AR2217 ( H1000 ) will be a back-up I can use without sight adjustment.
A few 6.5 Creedmoor shooters might scoff at my groups but for my purposes these loads will be more than adequate for animal control out to 400 yds.
All pics show groups relative to the targets they were shot at. Scope is set to be zeroed at 250 yds with the AR2213sc load.
First four pics of the AR2213sc loads followed by four pics of AR2217 loads.





Drop is 3 inches below target centre


Drop is 14 inches below target centre
Left impact point is two shots through the same hole




image sharing forums

Drop is from 4 to 5 inches below target centre


Drop is from 13 to 16 inches below target centre
host photos free


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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Looks like you,ve done your homework, congrats!
Ray


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 39569 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
Being a unique cartridge does not matter; caliber, bullet weight and velocity, do.
You already know this. No need to reinvent the wheel.


Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about.

I had a long discussion with a salesman at Holland and Holland of Bond Street, London.

He said the 240 H&H, shooting a 100 grain, .243 bullet, at 2900 fps, kills much better than a 243 Winchester shooting a 100 grain, .243 caliber bullet at the same velocity! rotflmo


Now that is funny Saeed! I’ve owned both the .240 H&H using . .243 barrel and a good ole .243 Win. Hey everybody, what’s the difference except for money and British history?


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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As to too much twist… I once put a new Palma barrel on a XTC shooters primary rifle. I had a new 6mm Ackley reamer that he wanted to try out. His goal was to shoot 115 grain Berger’s. He called Berger, and they insisted he needed a 7 twist barrel to stabilize the bullets, which I disagreed with considering the velocity that would be possible. Well, he ordered a 7 twist from PacNor, I chambered it up. He took it to the range, and couldn’t get it on paper…so I went to the range with him next time, and lo and behold, the bullets were vaporizing at about 25 yards. You absolutely can over spin bullets.
 
Posts: 1883 | Registered: 28 September 2006Reply With Quote
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The story goes that that a Canuck asked a "Know it all" Britt, "Why do you say that, are you an expert"
The Britt answers, "Not exactly old chap but you see I am British."

Some of us Canadians have gotten a little tired of Pommy Englishmen too.
 
Posts: 3161 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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I had a friend in high school (45+ years ago) that had a 22-250. His father loaded up some light, thin skinned bullets for it. It was quite impressive on a clear day on Jack rabbits etc. On a foggy day they would make a gray cloud part way to the intended target.
 
Posts: 317 | Location: California | Registered: 14 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Nice work there 3006king.

Thanks for posting the details. Somehow I didn't see it when you first posted it.

Big fan of H4831. Couldn't see any difference using the H4831SC. Seems more stable than the H1000.
Nice shot on the magpie. So, did you settle on a final load yet?


Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
 
Posts: 4521 | Location: Near Hershey PA | Registered: 12 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Hi Custombolt,
I have settled on the load using AR2213sc ( H4831sc) as my standard ( i.e. final load ) and the H1000 load will be backup only in the event I may not have H4831sc to load. Fortunately I have a good stock of H4831sc as of now.
I was planning a trip with this rifle on Wedenesday / Thursday this week as our southern border finally opens allowing me to travel but as the forecast looks like crap I'll see if I can postpone until Sunday / Monday when conditions look better. I might start another thread with some comments and pics just to keep everyone up to date.
I also am a big fan of H4831sc and due to its' versatility have regular loads for .243W, .270W, 300 Win Mag and now 300 Blaser Mag. It's among my most frequently loaded powders and one big advantage I've found is either miniscule, or no, variation between different batches of powder. Actually I think also that includes original H4831 as well. I had a good .243W load with H4831 and finally ran out of my old stock a couple of years ago so started working up a new load with H4831sc. Lo and behold the new sc load was exactly the same charge weight as the old version. Although I never had major issues loading the old H4831 I think the sc version does speed up the process somewhat with the shorter kernels, especially when trickling in the last one or two kernels. Just one of those things that makes handloading a pleasure.
Cheers


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
1 in 10 is the best. You can't over stabilize.


This! Might torque a,bit, but this!
Oops.....late as usual....

.
 
Posts: 40100 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
JTEX
posted 14 December 2021 04:09

This! Might torque a,bit, but this!
Oops.....late as usual....


Hey Jim,
Good to know you're still here, and still around.
I was beginning to think you were ignoring me ! Big Grin
Cheers


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
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