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Powder Recovered From 110 Year Old 8x57 Egyptian Made Military Ammo
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We were given a large quantity of 8x57 Mauser military ammo, made in Egypt 110 years ago - this is from the headstamp.

I tried some in a 308 Winchester and shot great.

Today I got a brand new Robler rifle in 6mm PPC USA.

out of curiousity I thought I will try this powder.

I installed a Zeiss scope on it, and loaded 10 rounds with 25 grains of this powder and Bill Brawand 68 grain match bullet.

First few rounds were fired to adjust the scope, then I fired the last 5 shots as a group.

0.476” for 5vshots at 100 yards.

Velocity was just over 2900 fps.

I am going to shoot more of this powder and see how it goes.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Thanks for the report have your tried shooting and of the ammo.
 
Posts: 15888 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I do not have any 8x57 rifles.

I am sure it is not going to shoot very accurately, as I have never seem military ammo that does, regardless of make or caliber.

I will try a few more loads with it in this rifle and post the results here.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I do not have any 8x57 rifles.



Is that the only cartridge that you don't have a gun chambered in?


Frank



"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite

 
Posts: 11761 | Location: Bakersfield CA. USA | Registered: 30 December 2002Reply With Quote
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just made my day knowing that some that old can still be good
 
Posts: 13039 | Location: faribault mn | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Funny enough I have no 8mm riflesxat all.

I have several wildcats based on the 8mm Remington Magnum though.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Tried "OLD" Flake powder from 8x57 Turk, Argentine and German.Nothing great but OK. The Military loadings all shot good. beerroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Guess I shouldn't worry about using ca 1960s RL-21 and 4831.
 
Posts: 642 | Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME | Registered: 25 May 2002Reply With Quote
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I have been shooting a large amount of WWI surplus powder for years now. as long as it was stored well, it will be fine.
Just recently i acquired a large amount of Dominican Republic 7x57 Mauser loaded ammo that had been wet for a long time.
The powder was still damp and after a slight wash in distilled water to remove the verdigris flakes in the powder and dried in a warm room,its fine.
The powder is very close to IMR4064 and shoots very well at 500 yards with the cleaned original SPBT bullets.


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Posts: 357 | Location: Albuquerque | Registered: 28 March 2013Reply With Quote
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I pulled the flake powder and bullets from Turk 8x57 dated 1938. Loaded them into 8x52R Siamese brass made from 45-70 brass and they shot 1.75 in groups at 100 yds out of my Siamese Mauser. Chronograph results showed only a 35 fps variance.
 
Posts: 2306 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Now I feel bad about throwing away the last of my 30-year-old Win 785 Frowner
 
Posts: 4011 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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I have been shooting a large amount of WWI surplus powder for years now.

Ummm . . . I suspect that's surplus from WW-II, not WW-I. Anything that was in existence as of December 7, 1941 got shot up by the U.S. military post haste.

At the end of WW-II Bruce Hodgdon bought train cars full of surplus 4895 and 4831 and stored it in grain elevators (try getting away with that today!) The latest of that surplus powder would have been made no later than 1945. I'm still using some surplus 4831, and in fact it will be what propels a 180 grain Nosler into and through an elk this fall, assuming the opportunity presents itself.
 
Posts: 12539 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I shot a few more groups, all good.

I will try it with lighter bullets next.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Stonecreek:
quote:
I have been shooting a large amount of WWI surplus powder for years now.

Ummm . . . I suspect that's surplus from WW-II, not WW-I. Anything that was in existence as of December 7, 1941 got shot up by the U.S. military post haste.

At the end of WW-II Bruce Hodgdon bought train cars full of surplus 4895 and 4831 and stored it in grain elevators (try getting away with that today!) The latest of that surplus powder would have been made no later than 1945. I'm still using some surplus 4831, and in fact it will be what propels a 180 grain Nosler into and through an elk this fall, assuming the opportunity presents itself.


Don't know about that... I shot a whole unopened case of 1918 .45ACP shot wonderful.


MopaneMike
 
Posts: 1078 | Location: Southern California USA | Registered: 21 December 2006Reply With Quote
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You know, it never ends with reloading.

I have a much of fired cases for this cartridge, but I wanted to only neck size them.

Apparently the chamber in this rifle is rather generous.

I wanted to neck size the case rather than full size.

But, they needed to be trimmed.

Unfortunately, they will not fit in the Wilson case trimmer holder.

I keep a number of different Wilson case holders, which I modify for some of the wildcats we make.

I used a PPC reamer to slightly widen the case holder so we can trim them.

I am going to shoot some of the lighter bullets, and post the results.

All using this powder.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
Now I feel bad about throwing away the last of my 30-year-old Win 785 Frowner


Be ashamed, Samuel.....very ashamed!
 
Posts: 229 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 06 January 2005Reply With Quote
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With Bill Brawand 68 grain bullet.

25.7-2997 fps 0.351
26.4-3075 fps 0.319
27.1-3191 fps 0.316
27.7-3294 fps 0.460

With Nosler 55 Ballistic Tip

26.0-3205 fps 0.362
26.7-3317 fps 0.570
24.4-3435 fps 0.899

I am not sure if this rifle will stabilize heavier bullets, I will try.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hook:
quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
Now I feel bad about throwing away the last of my 30-year-old Win 785 Frowner


Be ashamed, Samuel.....very ashamed!


Well, I had just loaded 30 rounds with a part-used box of old .338 Speer 275-grainers found cheap at a gun show (using the same powder weight and components from a packet sticker I'd written about 1990). Then I resolved that if there was enough powder left for another 20 I would keep the powder - but it was only enough to load 18 cartridges, so the lawn got it.

I've warned the kids that if that ammo is not used by about 2025, maybe they should pull the bullets and replace the powder. Am I worrying too much?
 
Posts: 4011 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:

I've warned the kids that if that ammo is not used by about 2025, maybe they should pull the bullets and replace the powder. Am I worrying too much?


Not in my opinion! In the last year, I have had two lots of older powder go bad on me. One was a metal keg of surplus 4831 that still had 12-15lbs in it. The other was the remains of the last 8 lb jug of AA3100 that I bought back when Accurate first introduced it.

Until then, I'd habitually loaded large lots of favorite loads regardless of how long it took me to use them up. After pulling down all that stockpiled ammo using those two powders (and finding corroded brass and bullet bases in them), I now only load enuf ammo to get me through a short period!

BTW, you are forgiven if it was less powder than would load a box of ammo.....even though I would still find a use for it.
 
Posts: 229 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 06 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Part of my paranoia pertains to the mystery deletion of 785 from Winchester's line and their previous, strange outlook on using it. Instead of starting and max loads, they offered just one, as though any deviation could spell trouble.

The lawn is growing much better now Smiler
 
Posts: 4011 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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I tried the Hornady 107 A-Max, but it was not stabilized.

I am going to look at a 308 rifle and try it with different bullet weights.

Will post the results.

It certainly seems to be a very good powder for the 6mm PPC.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I have a brand new Sako TRG22.

I have put a ZEISS Victory 4.8-35X scope on it, and will try it with different bullet weights.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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How consistent is the velocity shot to shot Saeed?

Good results. Smiler
 
Posts: 11723 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 02 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I fired 5, 5 shot groups in the 308, velocity went up to over 2800 fps with 150 grain bullet, and the accuracy is fantastic.

Will post the ES and SD tomorrow - I am out of the shooting room now.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Extreme spread is quite large 30-80 fps

Standard deviation is 12-33.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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A few details on this ammo.

It was loaded in Egypt 110 years ago.

It has flake powder.

10 rounds emptied of powder total was 456.1 grains = average 45.61 grains.

10 rounds individually weighed charges ranged 45.1 - 45.8 grains.

10 bullets weighed were 196.7 - 198.6 grains.

5 shot groups at 100 yards in a SAKO TRG 22 308 Winchester with a 26 inch barrel.

All with BERGER 150 MATCH and Federal 210M primers in Lapua cases.

37.0 gr 2445 fps 0.251"
38.0 gr 2529 fps 0.344"
39.0 gr 2632 fps 0 295"
40.0 gr 2702 fps 0.258"
41.0 gr 2821 fps 0.903"
42.0 gr 2918 fps 0.650"

Fascinating results!


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I am going to try it in a 243 Winchester next.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Extreme spread is quite large 30-80 fps

Standard deviation is 12-33.


Interesting that I ahve seen ES and SD that large using fresh powder in some very accurate ( 100 yard) loads in my rifle.

It seems that the design of the powder, being flake, lends itself very well to the residual acids of the production process being thoroughly washed away, promoting stability of the powder.

Yes, I did just google that. Big Grin

Thanks for the info.
 
Posts: 11723 | Location: London, UK | Registered: 02 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I found a Remington PSS model in 24# Winchester, with a Leupold 6.5-20 scope on it.

A friend was here yesterday, and I could not find any 243 brass.

So I got a few cases of Lapua 308 and told him I would use these.

He did not believe me, until I told him how easy it is to form the brass.

One run through a 7mm-08 Remington, one run through a 260 Remington and finally a run through a 24# Winchester die.

Perfect.

I will pos the results.

For all intent and purpose, this powder is very close to H4895.


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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A slight change of plans, and I used this powder in a 7MM-08 Remington.

Remington 700 BDL HB.

38.0 grains gave us 2634 fps, and a group of 0.238" for 3 shots with Nosler's 150 grain Ballistic Tip!


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Posts: 51249 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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