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Please help - wheel weights
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detritus was a new word for my limited vocabulary. Dictionary says particles of rock or other materials. Anything undesirable in wheel weights floats to the top and can easily be skimmed off. Wheel weights are as good as it gets and adding this that and the other just increases cost and wastes time.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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Republicans have a long history of pandering to the criminal oligarchs and so called lobbies, tax cuts for the super rich, grinding the economy down and making the Democrats slog for recovery and rob the middle class to make the super rich richer, at a faster rate than during boom times.

Let us NOT get into an ugly scene reserved for the Crater! Wink


quote:
Originally posted by NormanConquest:
I'm sure if there were democrats here + were interested,there would be a call for government funding for research on said data.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 10757 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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I totally agree. I NEVER go on that forum for just that reason.Both parties have spent unrealistic funds on research that was not necessary.The dems were more prevelent,thus my tounge in cheek remark.I have way too many instances of this kind of 'research' 'spending that is foolish,however,I apologize if I gave you offense.That was not my intention.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13699 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Naki:

I've cast for 40+ years. You're making this project into a real challenge when it's as simple as taking a piss!
Why worry about the metals? Pick pellets from the range, scrap lead of any kind works fine. No need to add expensive solder. Others have done the mixing already so picking pellets saves all that. Any indoor ranges around? Get their scrap. What you want for hardness is just hard enough you can barely scratch the slug with a thumb nail pressed hard. That's just about right.

From my experience: crap, scraps of wood, paper, bird shit etc all burns up, rocks, steel, bullet jackets etc float. Just let the crap burn, scrape the floaters off. IF there's lots of jackets, drop them in a bucket for resale as scrap. Flux a time or two to remix the tin once the crap has been cleared off the melt. The shiney floatation is tin. Keep that in your mix if you can as it makes better castings easier. Keep your temp over 700F, when it gets that cool, let it heat up. 800F is a good temp to cast at. Drop your sprues back in the pot as they come off and keep the temp steadier. IF they frost, no harm done, holds lube better. Just shows it's a bit hot is all. NO big deal!

Get a deeper bucket than that pan. Saves denting when hot bullets are dropped.

Get a Lee sizing die, they're cheap. plus they come with a bottle of liquid alox lube. Easy to apply, a bottle will last for thousands. Once it's cured over night there's no need to be concerned about lube and powder. Just load and shoot. It does stay sticky a long time.

Save all the fancy doings til you learn the tricks. Same with waiting on hardening and all that nonsense. I cast by 2 gallon buckets full. When done, then I'll size them, and lube with alox. Might be ten years before I get around to loading them. Never seen any difference between those and fresh cast. I've been told you can't powder coat over alox. get red or blue, don't get black powder as it won't cover well when you get that far. Outfit like Harbor Freight over here sells it cheap.

Main thing is be safe, don't get burned, or burn the place down. Wear safety glasses, gloves, and if not outside, blow a fan over it to keep the smoke and fumes out of your breathing air. you will get burned, train yourself not to jump and you won't dump the pot over in your lap.

Good luck and enjoy the doings,
George


"Gun Control is NOT about Guns'
"It's about Control!!"
Join the NRA today!"

LM: NRA, DAV, RMEF

George L. Dwight
 
Posts: 4963 | Location: Pueblo, CO | Registered: 31 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of Nakihunter
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All good.

I have enough clean ingots for 770+ bullets. (20kg)

I have another 45k probably of lead. say 15kg of clip on WW & at least 30k of the new stick on WW which is 99% lead. If I add a couple of rods of 50/50 solder, I should have enough to cast over 1800 bullets - total 2500.

There is no way I am going to shoot that many in a double using minimum 72 gr Varget even in 10 years.

As far as I am concerned the project is a success and I have achieved what I wanted - in fact it was much easier than originally envisaged.

Thanks to everyone for all the help. Much appreciated.

These are PC - 2 coats - before sizing.



"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 10757 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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georgeld--Simple as taking a piss? What rocket science is involved in that? Casting bullets has to be rocket science.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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Actually IMO,it comes down to knowing what you are doing as in so many other areas of our lives. A few cases in point: I used to do the 9 lb of WW to 1 lb 50/50 to make a Lyman alloy. Now I just run straight WW for low/medium veloc. loads. The high veloc. I use linotype.I admit that there is a LOT to know about casting properly but it does not need to be 'slide rule' perfect.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13699 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Lyman # whatever is a concept I never could grasp. How do you take 95% or more wheel weights, which are really an unknown and add 5% or so of exact to that unknown and come up with an exact? I didn't buy it when I read it back in the late 60's and so I used wheelweights as they were, perhaps they already had those exact amounts. When I started casting .22 cals was told many times, need to add tin to get good fillout. Bought tin and could tell no difference. Get wheelweights and cast bullets. Better formula is get free wheelweights and add an mix thoroughly wheelweights you didn't have to pay for and cast bullets.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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those days of free ww's are pretty much long gone.
I remember having to pay 5$ for a bucket full of all lead ww's [plus some free cigarette butts, lug nuts, and razor blades] and vowed not to return to that shop again.

wish I could remember where it was now..LOL.
 
Posts: 3651 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Lamar--For past several years, bulk of my casting has been .22 cal and getting about 125 bullets per pound, doesn't require a huge stash for my needs. It hasn't been too long ago that I could get free wheel weights. You may remember a guy from Castboolits named Chaos. He was in a job for awhile where he dealt with little country store mom and pop operations--service stations etc and he amassed a whole bunch of free wheel weights. Personally I have never bought one wheel weight.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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My usual tyre shop has a few buckets of wheel weights. I asked for some & was told that one of the partners needed them to cast fishing weights - the big deep sea ones that weigh probably 1 lbs each.

I asked him but had no luck. Then I offered to buy scrap lead from the metal recycle place and swap for WW and he agreed. I paid scrap rate of $3.50 per kg of scrap lead & it cost me $77! He game me a big bucket of WW and I am sure it would be 35kg! That was $1 per lbs!

So I can now cast about 1400 bullets of 400 gr 470NE! I also have another 10 kg of the old lot of WW.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 10757 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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even at 1$ per lb we come out pretty far ahead.
break down the price of a box of commercial bullets at their per lb price and even close to 2$ is still money ahead.
time not so much.
but what else are we gonna do with all that equipment we got?
 
Posts: 3651 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Now you have to watch out for "fake lead weights" that will ruin a batch of good lead with only a few pieces. I can't get free wheel weights at all now in my area and ANY lead goes for the going online rate. I can buy "clean" whatever mix I want online and have it shipped and not have to muck about with all the "extra free" garbage found in the junkyard "stuff" and NOT have to checkout each piece to see if it is REALLY lead.

The "good ol' days" are truly gone!!!!!!!!! thumbdown Frowner

Good Hunting tu2 beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Thanks mate. It was so easy and of course all the preparation, reading, advise etc. helped.

With lubed bullets I will need to use lubed wad and card wad in between. So powder coating looks much more attractive and so easy, if I go by Youtube clips.

I wont get the rifle until early next week it seems. UK customs work is just being done. No flight details yet.



quote:
Originally posted by eagle27:
Great looking bullets Naki, keep it simple for now, just pan lube, load and shoot some. Lube/sizing, powder coating etc can all come later. Get some lead in the air Wink


My advice on lubing lead bullets is to use molybdenum disulfide. I've been shooting 300 gr hardcast lead through both my 44's at 1250 fps and have never found a trace of lead in the barrel. Bear Creek Supply coats all their cast bullets with this stuff and it's the best, I think.

I told the guy I was going to clean some bullets by tumbling in SS media to compare results and he told me I won't be able to get it off. He was right. The stuff chemically bonds and is super slippery. That has to reduce friction and increase speed, I think.

Bear Creek Supply is on the web. I don't know if he sells the MD. but he casts a wide variety of slugs. Here's a video coating them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ztf9ZYMet8
 
Posts: 7725 | Location: Peoples Republic Of California | Registered: 13 October 2009Reply With Quote
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Not getting into politics but around here we have no gun owners who are progressives/ libs/socialists, or communists.
Because those groups all want to take your guns.
Just a fact; no discussion needed.
I started casting bullets from wheel weights in the mid 60s. Used as is. Just two things to remember about it;
Wheel weights were a very different alloy then, than now.,
And to clean melted lead alloys, you have to flux and skim. Not just skim.
Just facts.
 
Posts: 13309 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of NormanConquest
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True. The last bucket I got from my tire center had mostly pot metal weights that float + are easy to skim out. As to the fluxing I used to use beeswax cakes but now use leftover lube sizer medium. Metalux is available as well but the dross from the sizing lube is free + works well.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 13699 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by NormanConquest:
True. The last bucket I got from my tire center had mostly pot metal weights that float + are easy to skim out. As to the fluxing I used to use beeswax cakes but now use leftover lube sizer medium. Metalux is available as well but the dross from the sizing lube is free + works well.


One of the better things to flux with is your choice of any kind of wax and saw dust, preferably pine. Just fluxing won't take the goo alloys in the dross and put it back into the mix. Saw dust does that.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
Lyman # whatever is a concept I never could grasp. How do you take 95% or more wheel weights, which are really an unknown and add 5% or so of exact to that unknown and come up with an exact? I didn't buy it when I read it back in the late 60's and so I used wheelweights as they were, perhaps they already had those exact amounts. When I started casting .22 cals was told many times, need to add tin to get good fillout. Bought tin and could tell no difference. Get wheelweights and cast bullets. Better formula is get free wheelweights and add an mix thoroughly wheelweights you didn't have to pay for and cast bullets.


very true. cast some WW and go shoot. lifes too short to get all tied up in knots about it.
 
Posts: 1077 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
Lyman # whatever is a concept I never could grasp. How do you take 95% or more wheel weights, which are really an unknown and add 5% or so of exact to that unknown and come up with an exact? I didn't buy it when I read it back in the late 60's and so I used wheelweights as they were, perhaps they already had those exact amounts. When I started casting .22 cals was told many times, need to add tin to get good fillout. Bought tin and could tell no difference. Get wheelweights and cast bullets. Better formula is get free wheelweights and add an mix thoroughly wheelweights you didn't have to pay for and cast bullets.


That's not the way I've heard it Ray. This is what I heard to make Lyman #2 alloy: Take 5% tin, 5% antimony, and 90% lead makes a 15BHN Lyman #2 alloy. You can make it with Linotype and 50/50 bar solder, and the least accurate method is such as you mentioned with the 95 percent WW's. The first way I posted here is the real way to make it accurate. I never used it and still don't.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
Lamar--For past several years, bulk of my casting has been .22 cal and getting about 125 bullets per pound, doesn't require a huge stash for my needs. It hasn't been too long ago that I could get free wheel weights. You may remember a guy from Castboolits named Chaos. He was in a job for awhile where he dealt with little country store mom and pop operations--service stations etc and he amassed a whole bunch of free wheel weights. Personally I have never bought one wheel weight.


Ray ole Chaos seems fed up with Castboolits and daring them to ban him. I has seen the light.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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vzerone--Been awhile since I talked to Chaos. Have lost contact in fact, his cell number now belongs to someone else. Do you have current contact info? If so send me a pm. (I'm not sure if he is still working same place. I could go by there and possibly locate if you don't have contact info)
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
vzerone--Been awhile since I talked to Chaos. Have lost contact in fact, his cell number now belongs to someone else. Do you have current contact info? If so send me a pm. (I'm not sure if he is still working same place. I could go by there and possibly locate if you don't have contact info)


I haven't checked his status on that forum today Ray, might be possible they accepted his threat and banned him. I'll have to look and report back to you.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by vzerone:
quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
vzerone--Been awhile since I talked to Chaos. Have lost contact in fact, his cell number now belongs to someone else. Do you have current contact info? If so send me a pm. (I'm not sure if he is still working same place. I could go by there and possibly locate if you don't have contact info)


I haven't checked his status on that forum today Ray, might be possible they accepted his threat and banned him. I'll have to look and report back to you.


Ray I checked and not only is his post gone his name ISN'T EVEN in the members list!!!! They canned him.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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vzerone--Not the way you heard it. Me neither, didn't hear it that way. Read it directly out of Lyman manual.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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My Lyman manual has that first, and correct blend, that I posted to you here. If one is going to mix WW's to make it then I suggest he has a good BHN tester to see what the results read.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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vzerone---That's my point. Lyman says use wheel weights, which really are an unknown, (for 95% of the mixture) then mix a small portion of knowns and come up with an exact??? Maybe written in Hollywood? Get some wheel weights and make some bullets.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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vzerone--Chaos shows on my friends list as being banned. His two sons are still on the forum. I have no idea what he may have posted that got him banned.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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Interesting, I just checked again this evening. Now I see his two sons on the members list (which I didn't see there the other day),but I don't see Chaos at all. Hey CB plays games such as that.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
vzerone---That's my point. Lyman says use wheel weights, which really are an unknown, (for 95% of the mixture) then mix a small portion of knowns and come up with an exact??? Maybe written in Hollywood? Get some wheel weights and make some bullets.


No Ray not what I said. My old Lyman manual says only one formula and no mention of making it from WW's. Maybe I'll scan it for you to see.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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Vzerone--No need to scan anything for me. I have Lyman Manuals going back to 44th edition (copyright 1967). From that Manual " 5 1/2 pounds wheel weights 1 pound 50-50 bar solder 3 1/2 pounds of lead makes 10 pounds of #2 alloy. That's just one example.

From Lyman 3rd edition (copyright 1980) 9 pounds wheelweights and 1 pound 50/50 bar solder makes 10 pounds #2. (That's 90% unknown actually)---the point I made.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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they did show the ww mix I have it printed out somewhere.
anyway when they showed that ww's had enough antimony in them to make the mix close-nuff to work.
over the years the antimony content of ww's has dropped and dropped considerably.
now if you can even find them your probably getting more like 2.5% antimony.
in the 70's you were most likely still finding a lot of ww's with 5% [and 7% older 50's and 60's] antimony.
in the 80's and 90's 4% was the most common content.
back in the 30's finding larger ww's with up to 9% antimony wasn't too difficult.
so what was... was.
 
Posts: 3651 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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If wheel weight manufactures have certain standards of composition they must meet, I have not found it. That makes me think they'll use whatever they can get, whether that be old wheel weights, roof flashing, boat ballast or whatever else, after all, they all add weight and that is what they are after. Based on this thought, I'd say nailing down exactly what is in them at any time period is pure speculation. Even if antimony, for example, is more expensive, they can't separate it out so it remains in the mix.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
If wheel weight manufactures have certain standards of composition they must meet, I have not found it. That makes me think they'll use whatever they can get, whether that be old wheel weights, roof flashing, boat ballast or whatever else, after all, they all add weight and that is what they are after. Based on this thought, I'd say nailing down exactly what is in them at any time period is pure speculation. Even if antimony, for example, is more expensive, they can't separate it out so it remains in the mix.


They try to adhere to a standard and I feel they lessened the more expensive alloys to save money. Ray most that stuff you mentioned has antimony in it to make it easy to form it or draw it.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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Vzerone you are correct. Wheel weights are highly precision and exact amounts are used. If off a grain, they get discarded. One poor guy was off a year on the date some wheel weights were made and he cast bullets he thought were 14 BHN and they were actually 15BHN!!!!!! As you know bad things happened. His wife that had ran off came back home. His dog ran off and did not come back home and his fridge went out and his beer got hot. Yes sir that exact BHN is highly critical.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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Then
quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
Vzerone you are correct. Wheel weights are highly precision and exact amounts are used. If off a grain, they get discarded. One poor guy was off a year on the date some wheel weights were made and he cast bullets he thought were 14 BHN and they were actually 15BHN!!!!!! As you know bad things happened. His wife that had ran off came back home. His dog ran off and did not come back home and his fridge went out and his beer got hot. Yes sir that exact BHN is highly critical.


Then on top of that Ray water quenching them and oven heat treating them throw the BHN way off!!!!!
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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chuckle.

now you know why I have 3 big o'l pots so I can mix everything together and get one big pile of whatever I got the same.
 
Posts: 3651 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Was off hand shooting my revolver at 500 yards today, and my groups opened up--way up, was having a hard time keeping my group under 1/4". I was afraid I was going to have to junk my revolver. I then checked my BHN with my highly accurate BHN Meter and found my bullets were off.038 of a BHN. Some say I should have been using my BS meter and it would be pegged out.
 
Posts: 3168 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
Vzerone you are correct. Wheel weights are highly precision and exact amounts are used. If off a grain, they get discarded. One poor guy was off a year on the date some wheel weights were made and he cast bullets he thought were 14 BHN and they were actually 15BHN!!!!!! As you know bad things happened. His wife that had ran off came back home. His dog ran off and did not come back home and his fridge went out and his beer got hot. Yes sir that exact BHN is highly critical.

i heard his dog caught the clap from his old lady thats why he ran off when she got back.
 
Posts: 1077 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Years ago when the powers that be decided to switch from lead alloy to zinc, a couple of friends and I went to hoarding WW from tire shops. I've got tons of WW aging in my back yard. A friend made a 17 -`18 inch melting pot for cleaning up WW and casting ingots. A couple of Sundays of cleaning and casting kept me shooting for a number of years. I let my friends and acquaintances know I used any alloy of lead. I've gotten a couple of hundred pounds of linotype, a hundred pounds of a wonderous alloy, Babbit metal, my wife loves yard sales and once enlightened as to pewter she scored a couple of hundred pounds of pewter. ( Old pewter is grey, new pewter is bright shiny stuff) Believing in what the government does not know won't hurt me, maybe you can get a permit to make statuary out of pewter. I've shipped 405 bullets to Namibia, S. Africa and if I remember correctly, Norway, somewhere up there as self-lubricated alloy casting.


"Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson

 
Posts: 5788 | Location: Richmond, Virginia | Registered: 17 September 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
Although I have not been able to land a cast bullet on the moon (I keep shooting over it)I did not think casting bullets was rocket science. Reading this thread makes me believe I was wrong. Get some wheel weights, make some bullets and go shoot them.

THIS! not rocket science needed, just practice and experience and experimenting a bit. overthinking it to some people is fun i guess. i prefer to have fun learning from my mistakes and correct em and carry on. also went the PC route for awhile, now back to my Star and having a lot more fun.
 
Posts: 1077 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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