I ordered some ammo from Conley Precision for my Lott back in April. I still haven't received it, and am going to cancel my order. I was going to have 500 gr Swifts loaded but Conley can't seem to get their act together. I did however, order some Federal rounds with the 500gr TBBC's. I have always been a fan of the Swift A-Frame, and was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on how the TBBC's compare? I am going to Tanzania in September, and need to get settled in with the ammo I am going to take with me pretty quickly.

1115,

The TBBC should perform as well as the Swifts, if not better.

I have used them in both a 416 Weatherby and a 416 Rigby and a 270 Ackley.

They worked very well.

The reason I prefer them to the Swifts is that they have a solid shank, rather than a partition with lead in the rear.

I have had Swifts loose the lead from the rear section completely.

1115,

I agree with our moderator Saeed, the ORIGINAL TBBC was one of the best mass produced bullets ever made. Unfortunately, it is no longer available!

For this reason, the 500 grain Swift is superior to the TBBC by Speer. The new TBBC is made from gilding metal rather than pure copper. And there is alot of tin in the lead. It does make a difference.



These were recovered from 5 gallon water buckets at 2,400 fps.

Yours will undoubtedly look better at 2,100 fps.

Its just that the Swift looks just as good at 2,100 as at 2,400fps.



Have you considered a 450 grain North Fork bonded soft point?

Similar to the original TBBC, but even better. 2,250 fps in a .458, and I would imagine 2,350 fps in a Lott.



Andy

Andy,

I appreciate your input, and I know there are better bullets available if you reload, however I don't reload anymore, and need to find a source for ammo quickly. I have used the Swifts with great success in my CZ 375, and was hoping to get some rounds loaded for my Lott with them also. This will be my first hunt with the Lott, so I am still in a learning curve with it. The Swifts in my 375 have taken two buffalo, and the recovered rounds looked just like the Swift ad. The last buffalo I took with the 375 was a one shot kill at eighty yards. Thanks again for the input.

Kole Conley at Conley Precision Cartridge Co. is a good guy and produces a good product. I have shot some of it and a friend killed 2 buffalo with his ammo.



That said, he can be a bit slow at times. Have you talked to him? You might want to and give him a chance as his product is good.

Now with that said, I would shoot North Fork's hands down!

Dale: Have you tried Superior Ammunition? jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Dale: Have you tried Superior Ammunition? jorge

Took the post right out of my computer...

I have sent an e-mail to Superior Ammo concerning my needs. I hope to hear from them next week.

As far as Conley goes, last year I ordered some 350 Remington rounds from them. It too almost 6 weeks before I got them. I understand that Kole Conley was in an automobile accident and that's why they were so slow. So I gave them the benefit of the doubt. This year they blamed the long wait on not being able to get the Swift bullets. Not once did they contact me to let me know my order had been delayed. I had to contact them and find out why. They responded quickly but I still don't have my ammo. Their problems aren't my problems. Conley has no performed as I expected them to, and I won't buy from them again. They make a fine cartridge, but it takes forever to get them.

1115,

Have you considered Safari Arms? I buy a lot of .458 Lott ammo from John there, and took it to Africa last year. He generally loads with Barnes X and Barnes Solids, but I think he can accomodate other bullets if that is what you desire. I was just shooting some of his ammo in my Lott yesterday, and I can highly recommend it.

He is located in Seaford, NY. The Safari Arms phone is 516.826.7516 and his website is

www.safariarms.com.

Use Enough Gun and I just bought 400 rounds from him and it took him awhile to secure the brass necessary for such a large order, but he just shipped the order to us about 2 weeks ago, so I assume he's got excess brass on hand now to fill more .458 Lott orders.

PM me if you have questions

quote:

Originally posted by 1115:
I have sent an e-mail to Superior Ammo concerning my needs. I hope to hear from them next week.

If you do not hear from them you may want to call them tomorrow morning. While they have been responsive to my emails, I have also found that a phone call can sort out the options and express the urgency better than email at times.

1115,

If you have your Federal ammo, check to see if it is loaded with the old TBBC. It might be. I have seen them still on sale at Cabellas.

If anything on the box says Trophy Bonded Speer, it will be with the new (gilding metal and tin) bullet. If the bullet looks dull and has alot of surface blemishes, it will be the old style TBBC and you can hunt with that with confidence.

Good advice on all the custom ammo shops.

Andy

First, IMO, nothing wrong with the new TBBC ammo. My experience with it has been excellent.

Second, Try Superior, but call. I just placed an order for some light loaded, light bullet 243 ammo for my young son - wait for this = 2wks. I'm sure they could do a more "general" order quicker than this more unusual stuff.

JPK

I've had the same experience as JPK. No problems.

JPK and Use Enough Gun,

What calibers are you guys shooting?

This winter I euthanized a good sized mule deer at about 150 yards front chest-on after receiving permission from fish and game to do so. (It had a broken leg and could not leave my hay pasture to get water).

At fish and games request I dumped it on BLM ground for the coyotes cougars and eagles to eat.

To make a long story short 2 out of 3 TBBC Speers blew off the front end and were .284 caliber wadcutters. (7mm Renington mag). Perfect shot prone with bipod, and he just walked slowly in a circle. (About as much killing power as a 30-30).

Shot him again in pelvis and put him down but still not dead. Again and killed him. When you loose frontal area you loose knock down power.

I have never blown the front end off an old style TBBC and I have shot alot of game with them mostly 55 grain .223 (3,100 and 3,600 fps), 25-06 (115 at 3,150), .308 (165 HE 2,700), and a few .270 (140), .338 (225) and .375 (250).

The old TBBC were a great bullet.

Andy

Try Larry at Superior. He's always accommodated me quickly.

The A Frame is definitely an excellent bullet. I've never had one do anything but what is advertised.

Last year, had one on a Buf penetrate the right shoulder, both rib cages, the lungs and the heart from a .375 at around 100 yards. He dropped within 50 yards. The 300 gr. recovered bullet weighed 292 grains. Expanded to .710. Perfect performance. It doesn't get any better than that.

Received 8 boxes of Federal .458 Lott ammo last week from Cabelas. 500 gr TBBC. No mention of Speer, just "Trophy Bonded Bear Claw".
They cost about as much as the rifle!
Rich Elliott

Rich - how much were they per box?

quote:

Posted 25 June 2007 18:15 Hide Post
Rich - how much

$150 per box plus shipping. Glad I got the old stuff!
Rich Elliott

I have used TBBCs in .375(300gr), .300 WSM(180 gr), .30-06(180 gr), .270(140 gr), and .22-250(55 gr) and never had one problem. They are going back with us to Namibia and South Africa in less than three weeks in the .375, .300 WSM, .30-06 and .270, for leopard, sable, and various plains game.

FWIW, I ordered 5 boxes of 400 gr. Swift a-Frames in .458 WinMag from Conley back in March. Like 1115, time passed and no cartridges/no word. I finally called them up and was told they were waiting on the bullets - were having problems getting A-Frames.

Last Thursday I received an Email advising they have been shipped. If I don't get them in the next few days I'll post a note to that effect.

The 400 grain .458 WinMags are supposed to have a MV of 2400 fps. Conley produces good ammo at good prices if you're not in a hurry.

I've always had good luck with superior as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I have used TBBCs in .375(300gr), .300 WSM(180 gr), .30-06(180 gr), .270(140 gr), and .22-250(55 gr) and never had one problem. They are going back with us to Namibia and South Africa in less than three weeks in the .375, .300 WSM, .30-06 and .270, for leopard, sable, and various plains game.

I have used them in the 300gr standard velocity Federal 375H&H loading and every recovered bullet has looked like it belongs in a magazine add.

Two which passed through the shoulder bones of a waterbuck and a blue wildebeast were perfect. Great performance from one which spined an eland from the front and traveled some length of his spine, though this one was a bit beat up it was whole and well mushroomed with good weight retention. Those that have passed through other game had obviously expanded and exited with good sized exit holes indicating that they were whole and expanded on exit.

JPK

As I understand it, Andy is correct.

For reasons of cost and ease of manufacture, Federal/Speer did change the jacket and core recipes from the ones Jack Carter developed.

Jack apparently used pure (or close to pure) copper and lead for the original TBBCs. I understand that it can be difficult and tricky to get such relatively pure metals to bond properly - although Jack clearly figured out how to do it and make money at it.

Alloys of lead (with tin or tin and antimony added) and alloys of copper (such as gilding metal) are apparently easier to bond together, but are more brittle and prone to breaking.

Hence the reported problems with the new TBBCs. This has been enough for me to stop using them.

Well that's just great!

I have almost 8 boxes of the Federal TBBC which my .375H&H shoots extremely well.

Perhaps they're the older/original TBBC as the boxes are the gold box labeled Premium Safari. "Speer" is not listed anywhere on the box, and the bullets themselves look kinda dull and have spots and discoloration....

Is there anyway to check by lot# to make certain??