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What are your thoughts?
 
Posts: 11203 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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stir


"though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

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Posts: 1056 | Location: Eau Claire, WI | Registered: 20 January 2011Reply With Quote
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It is a serious question on my part. I have little experience with a bow. I have not been happy with the blood trails I have obtained. Granted some were in difficult situations (sand and/or rain). Some went short distances (20-30 yards. Others went as far as 150. All with well placed shots.
 
Posts: 11203 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Larry, I will state up front that I am old school. That said, I like fixed blades.
I've been shooting slick tricks with no complaints. Your experiences do not sound out of the ordinary.
The bow will never give you an instant drop unless it's a spine shot.
 
Posts: 208 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 24 November 2008Reply With Quote
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easy answer: they are illegal, as are lighted nocks, here in Idaho.
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
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I'm lucky in that I get to hunt with a friend who has some high quality deer on his place. He has hunted with a bow since he was in his teens and tried most of what has hit the market through the years.

I have only been at it for about a decade, but I respect his opinion and the vast collection of broadheads he has used over the years tells me he knows a little something about what he's talking about.

If you read up some on the writings of Dr.Ed Ashby and his findings you won't see much in there on mechanical broadheads. I am not saying they are trash nor am I saying they are the best things since sliced bread, but I have not used them to date. I HAVE used several types of fixed and settled on the Slick Trick Razor Trick. It is a fine broad head in a compact package that shoots good. There are plenty of others out there of the same or similar configuration, but of the ones I have tried, the Razor's have proven time and time again to be the easiest to tune with and in most cases once sighted in for them, I have taken a new set out of the package numerous times and shot right whee they should with nothing else done. Just screw in and go.

Blood trails are a result of cutting arteries or holes through high blood tissue like lung, heart, or liver. The angle of the shot will have a lot of effect on how much you see on the ground. Hitting high on a straight broadside shot you have to fill the body cavity, hitting from high to low from an elevated position will give you more of a drain effect, provided you hit where you should. The sharper the blade the easier they cut and the less chance an artery has of being pushed aside as the blade passes through. I can say that the Razor Trick will blow through a 200# sow hog and stick 6" in the ground behind it with no problems unless you hit the shoulder bone. They cut a very good wound channel and in most cases with a proper hit the hogs, or deer for that matter, will usually drop within 20-50yds or 7-10 seconds at the most, and you really don't have to hunt for blood, there is usually plenty on the ground.


Mike / Tx

 
Posts: 444 | Registered: 19 June 2005Reply With Quote
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I have been bowhunting since 1977 and started with zero knowledge and no internet or mentor to teach me.
Never have shot a mechanical, not even at a target. Several of my friends do shoot them, mostly Rage. My observation is that in most cases they work. But in some cases they don't open or open in flight and in most cases penetration is less than a good fixed head. I have seen the game that they shot and penetration was not great. Yes it was dead, but not always without some drama. They make a shallower 2" hole, versus a deeper hole or pass through 1 1/8" hole.
My friend who is a rage shooter and I have been to Zimbabwe once and South Africa twice, in bow hunting camps. Those places strongly discouraged any mechanicals. There is a reason for that. My friend shot a fixed on those safaris.
With a properly tuned bow, fixed fly just fine and they make deeper holes. That's what I am sticking with.


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Posts: 2506 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 08 December 2006Reply With Quote
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they have pro's and cons to each.

i "almost" strictly use fixed blades.

i believe in building an arrow/bh combination for the worst case scenario, and always wait for the best shot to give myself the best opportunity at the best case scenario (broadside or slightly quartering, encountering only ribs).

in these cases, where the animal does not move, and ribs are the only bones encountered, almost anything will work on a whitetail sized animal, and even bigger.

however, animals do not always stand still, and we do not always make the shot we intended on. so for that reason, i like heavy arrows, and fixed blade heads.

shoot as heavy an arrow as you can, to give you the worst trajectory that you are still comfortable with. for some people that is 250fps, for some its 290fps, it depends on your hunting style and your ability to know shot distances.

mechanicals will often give larger cut diameter holes, and "can" result in better blood trails. but this is not always the case. shot placement is what really gives you blood trails, not necessarily the cutting diameter of the head.

mechanicals work just fine, there are many good ones on the market. but they take more energy to open, they have a larger cutting surface, which takes more momentum to push them through the animal, which reduces penetration when compared to an equal shot with a smaller fixed blade bh.

mechanicals are easier to tune. this, however, is a pet peeve of mine when people use mechs only so they do not have to perfectly tune their bow. bad arrow flight is bad arrow flight, tune the bow to as close to perfect as you can, then shoot he bh that you want.

fixed blades:
no moving parts to fail. in general, better penetration all else being equal. more likely to split a bone and continue on through the animal.

watch hunting shows today where everyone is using light arrows and rage bh's, and see how many animals run away with the nock glowing from their ribcage. they usually say something like, well i must've hit the offside shoulder, thats why it didnt go through. sure is an awful lot of offside shoulders being hit these days....

now go watch hunting shows from 15 years ago when everyone was shooting muzzy 3 blades, and almost all shots were pass thru's.

first, make sure your bow is tuned for perfect arrow flight.
then, if you want to build your setup for penetration, find a good cut on contact (coc) fixed blade head. the razor trick is an excellent head, and you can find them on sale right now as they are being discontinued. magnus, VPA, strickland helix, there are lots of good fixed heads out there. if you like 3 blades, the G5 montec and muzzy trocar come to mind as good ones. i really like the strickland helix. 2 blade, single bevel, built like a tank for penetration.

here's my shot on a blue wildebeest, going thru the offside shoulder..you'll notice the arrow sticking in the ground as he runs off
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeRIVu4Rk3g

that's what a heavy arrow with a good bh will do for you.

i like 2 holes in my critters for blood trailing, and i get those with fixed blades. now, i also shoot a 30" draw and a speed bow with heavy arrows, so i have plenty of momentum to use mech's if i so choose, but usually, i choose not to.
 
Posts: 748 | Location: Castle Pines, CO | Registered: 19 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Thank you all.

I have shot, as I recall, a total of 6 bucks with my crossbow. All have been good shots with the arrow well placed. All but 1 were shot with a fixed broadhead. There were 3 shot with a fixed BH of an unknown make. I simply can't remember. It was 2 years ago. I shot 2 with a fixed Dirt Nap BH. I shot a single buck with a mechanical, also 2 years ago. I also can't remember the name.

I have been underwhelmed by the blood trail on all of them. Granted there are a lot of really poor conditions for blood trailing. However, some have really surprised me.

The last buck I shot, was shot from above. It exited low, right behind the off side shoulder. I saw little blood near where the buck was shot. Since I had seen the buck fall, I didn't search very much.

I want something that is going to penetrate AND leave a blood trail.
 
Posts: 11203 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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with a crossbow, guys that hunt suburban whitetail and kill a lot of deer every year really like the grim reaper's. both the hybrids and the whitetail specials. crossbows generally shoot decently heavy arrows at a good speed, and if you're shooting the smaller florida deer you'd be fine with those.
 
Posts: 748 | Location: Castle Pines, CO | Registered: 19 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cooperjd:
with a crossbow, guys that hunt suburban whitetail and kill a lot of deer every year really like the grim reaper's. both the hybrids and the whitetail specials. crossbows generally shoot decently heavy arrows at a good speed, and if you're shooting the smaller florida deer you'd be fine with those.


Interestingly, a close friend just stuck a buck with a Grim Reaper. There is a question whether it opened or not.;
 
Posts: 11203 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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haha of course! Smiler

for mechanicals, i prefer over the top type like the reapers or the spitfires. i have shot one deer with the swhacker, it opened and cut a big slit.

i shot a couple deer with the deadringer trauma...now, this is not really meant for deer, its a 3-1/8" 2 blade. but i was shooting 525gr arrows at 285 fps, and only shot small does.

since you're using a crossbow, you may have to be careful about shooting a larger head, some of them are difficult to tune out of a super fast bow. maybe give the magnus buzzcut a try. its a 4 blade serrated edge. the guys at magnus say that they see slightly better blood trails and slightly bigger holes in the deer vs the slick bladed versions.

there are also some of the hybrid types, like the grim reaper that has a 2 blade even if the mech. blades do not open.

blood trails are funny things with archery gear. the best blood trail ive ever had was with "the atom"...and people HATE that head. also, the worst blood trail ive ever had was with the atom, but i hit a deer high lung and the exit was too high for a good drain hole. he died in 40 yards, but just didnt bleed.

i used a strickland helix in rsa recently and shot 2 critters, teh wildebeest from above's video and an impala. the impala bled like hell, from his shoulders as well as the mouth, and went down quickly. but with the super dry and dusty conditions, finding blood was somewhat difficult in that stuff. even though a two-blade made for a lot of blood lost. you can see the blood pumping out in the slow motion portion of the video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a40QyMxSpdc

let us know what you use and keep us posted on your results.
 
Posts: 748 | Location: Castle Pines, CO | Registered: 19 January 2005Reply With Quote
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I think I am going to stick with a fixed. Too many things to go wrong on the mechanical. There seems to be a question about them. Hell, I read the instructions on some of them and have no idea what the hell they are talking about.
 
Posts: 11203 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by cooperjd:
haha of course! Smiler

for mechanicals, i prefer over the top type like the reapers or the spitfires. i have shot one deer with the swhacker, it opened and cut a big slit.

i shot a couple deer with the deadringer trauma...now, this is not really meant for deer, its a 3-1/8" 2 blade. but i was shooting 525gr arrows at 285 fps, and only shot small does.

since you're using a crossbow, you may have to be careful about shooting a larger head, some of them are difficult to tune out of a super fast bow. maybe give the magnus buzzcut a try. its a 4 blade serrated edge. the guys at magnus say that they see slightly better blood trails and slightly bigger holes in the deer vs the slick bladed versions.

there are also some of the hybrid types, like the grim reaper that has a 2 blade even if the mech. blades do not open.

blood trails are funny things with archery gear. the best blood trail ive ever had was with "the atom"...and people HATE that head. also, the worst blood trail ive ever had was with the atom, but i hit a deer high lung and the exit was too high for a good drain hole. he died in 40 yards, but just didnt bleed.

i used a strickland helix in rsa recently and shot 2 critters, teh wildebeest from above's video and an impala. the impala bled like hell, from his shoulders as well as the mouth, and went down quickly. but with the super dry and dusty conditions, finding blood was somewhat difficult in that stuff. even though a two-blade made for a lot of blood lost. you can see the blood pumping out in the slow motion portion of the video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a40QyMxSpdc

let us know what you use and keep us posted on your results.


I should add that my friend swears by them. This is the first time this has happened.
 
Posts: 11203 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I have hunted only with fixed as that is all Idaho allows.

While in Africa my PH used mechanicals and I was amazed at the blood trails that came as a result of these broadheads.

If allowed to use them I would at least give them a try.
 
Posts: 1464 | Location: Southwestern Idaho, USA!!!! | Registered: 29 March 2012Reply With Quote
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Larry, i missed that it was a crossbow in your first post. I shoot both compound and crossbow. Strictly fixed blade in compound, i used a couple of mecanicals yearsago and was unmpressed with comsistency f ooening properly o mpact, so compound is steelforce, i prefer the cut on impact type over chiesel point.
On crossbow i shoot rocket hammerhead. 3 blade 2" hole. Devastion is unfathomable. The big farm i hunt on has 5 f us hunting all using this broadhead for last 5 years. Never a failure. I think the differ nce is the heavier arrow in crossbow carries alot more eergy. I shot a doe monday night at 68 yds, yes thru rangefinder. I was shooting a bit up hill, entered mid way up her chest and exited above shoulder blade. Double lung no heart. Never found arrow and had a huge gapping hole bothaides she went 80 yds ish. Just my 2 cents
 
Posts: 717 | Location: va | Registered: 30 January 2012Reply With Quote
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I have shot a couple dozen deer with mechanicals of various makes never had a problem with them.

As with many firearm wounds people make a bad hit then they blame the product for their lousy shooting.
 
Posts: 17945 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I've been shooting Spitfires for years, and have taken 19 Whitetails with them. On only one occasion did I not have a complete pass through, and that was shooting straight down thru the shoulder blades. Even then the arrow was just holding on by its fletching.

But mechanicals require energy to enter, open up, and then penetrate with their wide cutting blades. I usually shoot a bow at 74 lbs, with a 450gr arrow at about 310 fps. If I were shooting a 50 lb compound, I'd probably stick to cut-on-impact fixed blade heads.
 
Posts: 19319 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Spitfires is what my PH used. Awesome broadhead.
 
Posts: 1464 | Location: Southwestern Idaho, USA!!!! | Registered: 29 March 2012Reply With Quote
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If I were shooting a 50 lb compound, I'd probably stick to cut-on-impact fixed blade heads.


My friends wife was shooting a 40lb bow she watched a couple of none cut on contact heads bonce off of deer.

Went back to the old bear razor heads would shoot right through them.
 
Posts: 17945 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Went back to the old bear razor heads would shoot right through them.

Yes, it takes significant power to reliably open mechanicals and drive them completely through Deer. But if you shoot that poundage, they fly true and cause devastating damage.
 
Posts: 19319 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
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I can remember many years ago a broadhead comparison on feral hogs that had been head shot with a rifle.

I can't remember where I saw this.

Zwicky Black Diamonds were the winner, and the mechanicals all failed.

I know it's been a lot of years. My step-son is in the Army stationed in Texas and he hunts with a mechanical but doesn't like it. He switched this season back to a fixed blade.
 
Posts: 7573 | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Muzzy fixed has always worked for me.
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Larry, I stared bowhunting about 6 years ago. I've tried quite a few BH's...fixed and mech. I tried the Magnus fixed serrated blades and haven't looked back. Fly with my field points from a tuned bow out to 60+ yards and come VERY sharp.

Gary
 
Posts: 1963 | Location: NE Georgia, USA | Registered: 21 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Mechanical
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Decades ago, thunderheads 125 where my favorites. They flew well with my golden eagle and gforce bows.

Nowadays using Rage for axis, fallow deer size and "softer" trophies like blackbucks. We recommend such setup for our exotics longer shots at our ranch´ plains sections.

For middle size game like Red Stag we recommend "tested" fixed but we receive lot of mechanical shooters and they work well on double lung shots.

For heavier armor trophies like water buffalo or massive boars we recommend using grizzlystik single bevel broadheads from alaskabowhunting.com


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Posts: 47 | Location: Argentina - LA PAMPA | Registered: 29 March 2010Reply With Quote
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When dealing with anything mechanical, it can and will eventually fail. When ever one is relying on a system of mechanics to " work " there is a CHANCE for failure. If one eliminates the mechanics of a device error is taken out of the equation and now becomes only the error of ones accuracy, ability and the performance of ones bows mechanics.


Ask yourself if you would risk all that you have on the mechanics of a broad head opening versus a fixed and you will soon realize there is really one answer.


Good luck and shoot straight!
 
Posts: 544 | Location: Manitoba, Canada | Registered: 10 September 2013Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by AR MAN:
When dealing with anything mechanical, it can and will eventually fail. When ever one is relying on a system of mechanics to " work " there is a CHANCE for failure. If one eliminates the mechanics of a device error is taken out of the equation and now becomes only the error of ones accuracy, ability and the performance of ones bows mechanics.


Ask yourself if you would risk all that you have on the mechanics of a broad head opening versus a fixed and you will soon realize there is really one answer.


Good luck and shoot straight!


The answer is yes..the chance of failure is minimal. The bow your shooting the arrow out of is mechanical. Ive experienced and witnessed more problems in the field with bows than from arrows or broad heads....

By that logic you should shoot a recurve instead of a compound bow after all its a much simpler mechanical device. The fixed or mechanical argument is getting old. there may have been a time when mechanicals were unrelaible......those days are long gone
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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cut on contact everytime. I wouldn't hunt anything with mechanicals.


Birmingham, Al
 
Posts: 817 | Registered: 18 December 2006Reply With Quote
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http://www.fieldandstream.com/...lades-vs-mechanicals.

Shoot what makes you happy or within the law..however if you don't like them cause you had one fail 20 years ago or your buddy knows a guy that said once....
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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When your hunt hinges on your broadhead, don't shoot a broadhead with hinges.

Cut on contact for me.


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Posts: 561 | Location: North Alabama, USA | Registered: 14 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Unfortunate news today from a co worker I'm an aquantance of. Archery elk hunt three weeks ago pse bow broadside elk bull 5 by 5 or 6 by 5 at 40ish yards on a trail. At the shot he noticed his arrow didn't get much penitration but he said he hit it perfect so he waited 2hrs and went back to find blood that eventually deminished enough to have lost his animal!! I just finished asking him did he use a fixed or mechanical and he said mechanical he's killed lots of deer with it? He told me he felt like puking after loosing that beautiful animal and will never use mechanical ever again.

Dam shame!!
 
Posts: 544 | Location: Manitoba, Canada | Registered: 10 September 2013Reply With Quote
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Sorry to hear that. I use mechanical and fixed depending on what and where I'm hunting. I would be interested to know the arrow weight and type of mechanical he used. From the penetration testing that I've seen all mechanicals are definitely not created equal, some penetrate as deep as any fixed blade and some are absolutely pathetic. I suspect Mechanicals get a bad rap because of the inferior designs and makers.
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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I also suspect what performs flawlessly on a whitetail might not do as well on an elk.
 
Posts: 11203 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
I also suspect what performs flawlessly on a whitetail might not do as well on an elk.


Absolutely..we typically don't use the same bullets for whitetail that we use for elk and moose, so broad heads have to be approached with the same thought process.
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Gentlemen I believe you may have unknowingly answered the question about reliability on mechanical broad heads. No were that I've ever found does any of those expandables say for deer or medium game only and when push comes to shove and a shoulder blade or heavy bone is encountered your running the risk like I've mentioned with that style of head. In my limited experience 3 bull moose and 4 elk maybe around 25 ish deer broad head weight has more to do with the size of game your after not the style of head used. I have always used 125gr muzzys and to be honest I actually believe it may be a tad much on deer having shot a couple rite threw the shoulder blade and actually having such major hemoraging on the front quarter it looks like it's been shot with my 300 win mag!! That being said I'm also not worried about quartering too shots at 30 or less yards. Imo if there were never any penitration issues or mechanical blade issues even from take your pick LEADING expandable broad head manufacturer then they would be using it on dangerous thick skinned/ boned game Buffalo. Making excuses that oh maybe it's not for larger game simply proves the point but if you are really that confident or stubborn with expandable go ahead but don't tell me I didn't warn you!


Hope this helps?
 
Posts: 544 | Location: Manitoba, Canada | Registered: 10 September 2013Reply With Quote
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No..because there a number of expandable's that penetrate far better than your muzzy's...matter of fact muzzy's do quite poorly even compared to other fixed blades. I shot nothing but muzzy 100 and 125, I swore by them and refused to even entertain the idea of another broadhead. So this is purely a guess but I'm gonna say that mechanical your buddy shot into the elk...was maybe a rage? They work really well on deer sized animals but are notoriously bad at penetration and your correct there is not an expandable on the planet thats designed for the largest bovines or any of the dangerous game, except maybe the cats, but then again neither is a muzzy.
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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There are a couple of nicely made mechanicals designed for elk up to moose...and they are absolutely devastating from what I have experienced and witnessed.

I know I'm going to get blasted for saying anything negative about muzzy but mechanicals have come a long way in the last few years and some of them are destroying the old classics.
 
Posts: 11636 | Location: Wisconsin  | Registered: 13 February 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by AR MAN:
Imo if there were never any penetration issues or mechanical blade issues even from take your pick LEADING expandable broad head manufacturer then they would be using it on dangerous thick skinned/ boned game Buffalo. Making excuses that oh maybe it's not for larger game simply proves the point but if you are really that confident or stubborn with expandable go ahead but don't tell me I didn't warn you!


Well this sounds like a challenge! If you will kindly pay for the flight, hunting/PH costs, new bow, and taxidermy fees I will set to show you that an expandable can take down any buffalo.


"though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

---Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 1056 | Location: Eau Claire, WI | Registered: 20 January 2011Reply With Quote
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HEY THECANADIAN,

I couldn't afford the multiple trophy fees paid for you to keep trying to prove your point lol!
 
Posts: 544 | Location: Manitoba, Canada | Registered: 10 September 2013Reply With Quote
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