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Reconsidering carbon/ligher arrows
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Who makes a good light(ish) wieght arrow in either carbon or alloy, I had 3 dozen XX75 2317's as well as some XX78.

I am finding that these arrows out of my 70lb Deviator are a little on the slow side, at least when compared to the junk carbons I have fired out of it from time to time.

On the issue of speed, I am not trying to break any records, just that I have had deer jump arrows in the past.

Can anyone reccomend a lighter arrow?


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Posts: 2264 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Gold Tip Expedition Hunter. Straightness of 0.006" which is plenty for hunting. There's some good deals at http://www.huntersfriend.com/arrowhelp/order-arrows.htm

You can get a dozen, ready to roll for $59.


"The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country." - J. Robert Oppenheimer
 
Posts: 385 | Location: Midwestern Corn Desert | Registered: 13 November 2003Reply With Quote
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We've all heard it, but it bears repeating. Animals can react quickly, somewhere in the region of 3-6 times faster than we can. Arrows are slower than the speed of sound, so the sound reaches an animal before the arrow does. Deer don't really jump the string as we think, but they drop at the sound of the bow an animal can only drop as quickly as physics allow. They can drop only as fast as something the same mass as they are if it's dropped in a freefall-if that makes sense. So a deer is dropping at the sound of the shot in order to coil its legs and then jump away. You'd be just as good to spend time/money to quieten the bow. As boss Kongoni has pointed out a heavy arrow tends to quieten the bow and will absorb more of the bows energy as well. Aiming at the bottom of the kill area makes a lot of sense too.

the chef
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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I agree with calgarychef1 about deer dropping as they prepare to jump, and, IMO, it is an absolute necessity to silence the bow. Carbon arrows will not compensate for a noisy bow. That said I doubt I will ever fire another aluminum arrow. I find the carbons to be far superior in every respect. I have used Gold Tip, Carbon Force, and currently Beman. All good arrows. I shoot 376 grain arrows from a 60# single cam at 27" draw. Not a blazing fast speed rig, but over the past 3 years it has taken 3 elk, a bear, and a deer between 12 and 40 yards. An elk at 20 yards the arrow gave complete penetration. The two other elk, at 30 and 35 yards, the arrow stopped against the hide on the far side of the animal. I shot one smallish black bear at 12 yards and had a complete pass-through. I shot a deer at 40, shot high and hit the spine severing the cord and dropping him in his tracks. I can find no fault with these relatively light carbon arrows.
 
Posts: 866 | Location: Western CO | Registered: 19 February 2004Reply With Quote
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As was covered above, even the fastest arrow is still only 1/3 the speed of sound. I'll take a heavy arrow and quiet bow as my first choice everytime. I have seen video of impala, dropping jumping spinning and getting hit on the opposite side and unless you saw it on slo-mo you would never know what happened!
 
Posts: 421 | Location: GA, USA | Registered: 15 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Cobrad is right about the performance of carbons. I shoot aluminums but this fall it's going to be carbons. It's amazing the stuff I've been finding about penetration of carbon vs aluminum.
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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I went from aluminum to carbon two seasons ago and have never broken or shattered one. I use Gold Tip XT Hunters. The carbons are 115 grains lighter than my old aluminums and combined with an increase from 65# to 70# draw weight has increased speed through a chrono from 247fps to 283fps. I will never go back to aluminum shafts.


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Posts: 8 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 24 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I just watched a Canadian bear hunt on the outdoor channel. I pay attention to what equipment the guys use. They all had 65# bows.
The first bear was hit behind the shoulder, perfect shot and it looked like the arrow went in about 6 or 7". They had to let the bear go and recover it the next morning.
The second bear with the next hunter was hit a little high and again it looked like, at the most, about 8" of penetration. Another next day recovery.
These two left almost no blood sign and they showed how they tracked them from the scuffed up ground and tracks.
The third hunter used a heavier carbon arrow and had a complete pass through. The arrow never slowed down and I could not even see the fletch go through.
I would reconsider the "light arrow" thinking.
It amazes me when these big, stong hunters strain their eyeballs out drawing a bow and the game runs off with most of the arrow sticking out.
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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I used carbons last year for the first time with good success but I'm wondering if any mfg makes a heavy carbon arrow for us old schools who prize momentum over velocity?
 
Posts: 1733 | Registered: 31 January 2006Reply With Quote
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http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/ is the answer to your prayers. This guy is the developer of the famous "grizzly sticks" I watch a lot of bowhunting videos too, and it amazes me also to see 6-8 inches of penetration on a lot of the shots. Would you rather shoot a bear with a 22-250 or a 300 win mag. This light fast arrow stuff kind of boggles my mind. I think people focus so much on speed because it's one of the few things that are actually easily measurable at the range.

the chef
 
Posts: 2763 | Registered: 11 March 2004Reply With Quote
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Very light fast arrows are great for impressing your friends with how fast your bow shoots. Heavy, good flying arrows a much better at killing animals.
 
Posts: 421 | Location: GA, USA | Registered: 15 July 2002Reply With Quote
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I like the toughness of the carbon arrows, but like heavier arrows. But those Alaska Grizzly arrows are weird. My brother bought some. They have a weird taper and need the custom adapters from the factory to work. Dan's arrows came with the wrong adapters. The factory admitted the problem and promised several times over a year to send the right ones. Dan still does not have the right adapter. Since they are weird diameters, nothing else works.

I use RedHead Carbon Supreme Hunter arrows for deer, elk, bear (12 to 12.8 gpi). This is the same arrow from Carbon Express , I think.

For elephant, cape buff, etc, look at Carbon Tech Safari arrows at 15.3 grains/inch. www.lancasterarchery sells the Safari arrows cheaper than the list price.

These latter arrows all have bigger OD's, but normal ID's (.246 ??) so the adapters are commonly available.


Don_G

...from Texas, by way of Mason, Ohio and Aurora, Colorado!
 
Posts: 1645 | Location: Elizabeth, Colorado | Registered: 13 February 2004Reply With Quote
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There are so many good carbons out there.

I'd have to say that Goldtip is probably on top of the heap w/ PSE and Easton close behind.

I just started shooting the GT XT hunters in camo rescently and they are pretty good so far. I shot the GT ULs for a while but, didn't take any animals w/ them. I've shot the PSEs for several years and they are great Carbons.

You can find great deals on arrows at:

http://www.mountain-archery.com

Good Luck

Reloader
 
Posts: 4146 | Location: North Louisiana | Registered: 18 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Here's a good site to look over a number of arrows and weights.
Gold Tip makes some heavy weights for you "slow / heavy" guys.
IMHO you can't do much better than GT XT Hunters...best of both worlds with reasonable weights allowing reasonable speeds. A balanced arrow. The second site, (GT) use the Build your arrow tool, to see how your idea of the perfect arrow looks (weight, FOC, etc) Have fun. Bt

http://www.huntersfriend.com/arrowhelp/arrow-selection-6.htmhttp:
//www.goldtip.com/


Elk, it's what's for dinner..
 
Posts: 260 | Location: So. Oregon | Registered: 11 June 2004Reply With Quote
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"Carbon" arrows are the best arrows available right now. They are superior as far as physical characteristice of recovery.

But too many people use arrows that are too light IMO.

I did a test varying the weights of arrows.
From that testing I came to the conclusion that that 380-390gr is probably the lightest a person should use. That is a pretty tough sell, but that is what I discovered.
As you increase arrow weight, you increase the efficiency of any bow thereby increasing kinetic energy and momentum. Out of the various 60 pound bows I tested. The kinetic energy/momentum graphs leveled off around that weight. The numbers kept going up with increasing arrow weight, just not as fast.
 
Posts: 2034 | Location: Black Mining Hills of Dakota | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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i use carbon express 60/75's with 3 grain per inch inserts the full legth of my arrows with 4 blade muzzy dangerouse game broad heads

the bow is a custom hoyt hyper tect with 95# limbs and red line cam. i use a single fiberoptic bead on a pendelum style sight.

the arrow is 620 grains and speed is 260-270 fps.
 
Posts: 2095 | Location: B.C | Registered: 31 January 2002Reply With Quote
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Wow, 700, that's 100 ft-lbs. Pretty impressive.

Remind me to take you with me next time I kill an elk, you could probably throw it over your shoulder and walk down the mountain!

As they used to say back home: "That boy's strong enough to hunt bears with a switch!"


Don_G

...from Texas, by way of Mason, Ohio and Aurora, Colorado!
 
Posts: 1645 | Location: Elizabeth, Colorado | Registered: 13 February 2004Reply With Quote
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i through a 200 pound buck on my shoulders wraped in hunters orenge to carry it out once i had to go maybe 300-400 yards tops to the dirt road

dose that count....lol
 
Posts: 2095 | Location: B.C | Registered: 31 January 2002Reply With Quote
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i spent a couple bucks on those maxima carbons when i picked up my new bow, hadn't shot in a while so i figured the groups would be a little erratic, so better get something that will take the abuse.
i'm switching back to aluminum arrows, after a few weeks practicing i'm starting to get the hang of this stuff again, out of 6 maxima carbons i robin hooded 3. not so fun at 10 an arrow.
 
Posts: 93 | Registered: 18 April 2006Reply With Quote
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You'll ruin the aluminums faster than the carbons.

You need to shoot at separate dots - always!

I have ruined three carbons in the last two days shooting at a 3D bear in the back yard. I get too lazy to shoot one at a time.


Don_G

...from Texas, by way of Mason, Ohio and Aurora, Colorado!
 
Posts: 1645 | Location: Elizabeth, Colorado | Registered: 13 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Must be the moon phase...I shot one right through the nock last night and split it into 3 pieces. My son did one the same way the night before.


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Posts: 858 | Location: MD Eastern Shore | Registered: 24 May 2005Reply With Quote
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yeah i might ruin the aluminums a little faster but they cost almost half as much as the carbons.
i don't have the option to shoot at different dots all the time, i am doing 3d this summer and then going back into indoor competitions in the fall and winter. only one dot on those targets.
even shooting outdoor 3d there are two people in my group, which means a total of 3 arrows in the target at each station. not that worried about it with some of the treestand shots or the 150 yard buffalo they got set up, but those 15 or 20 yard javelinas have me a little concerned.
 
Posts: 93 | Registered: 18 April 2006Reply With Quote
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Shoot last and aim at someone elses arrow!
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Bakerton, WV | Registered: 01 September 2003Reply With Quote
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