Loading for Damascus Shotgun

15 November 2002, 11:33

I'm looking for some reloading data for a Damasus double. I read in a magazine where a guy was using 82 gr of FFg with about l oz of 7 1/2 shot in his old Damascus. I've read where smokeless powder could be subsituted for black powder but one had to MAKE SURE not to exceed the limits (pressure) of what the black powder load would be in the first place. I've grown accustomed to my body parts where they are now and do not intend rearranging them so.....I'm not looking to use smokeless powder PERIOD but curious about the other-black powder. Thanks, Mike

16 November 2002, 04:47

Brent

quote:
Originally posted by FourTails:
I'm looking for some reloading data for a Damasus double. I read in a magazine where a guy was using 82 gr of FFg with about l oz of 7 1/2 shot in his old Damascus. I've read where smokeless powder could be subsituted for black powder but one had to MAKE SURE not to exceed the limits (pressure) of what the black powder load would be in the first place. I've grown accustomed to my body parts where they are now and do not intend rearranging them so.....I'm not looking to use smokeless powder PERIOD but curious about the other-black powder. Thanks, Mike

I use 110 gr of Swiss 1.5 fg (a bit faster than 2fg Goex) and 1.5 oz (650 gr) of lead shot - usually #75. for clays and #5 for pheasants in my 10 bore Scott. I have a nitro cardwad over the powder, followed by a circle-fly lubed fiber wad, then the shot, with a #400 series watercolor paper shot column liner (two wraps of thich paper around the inside of the brass case into the center of which I pour the lead) and a think card wad over the top held in place with a few drops of water-glass (sodium silicate). I have used up to 120 gr of powder with 1 5/8 oz of lead but that hurts too much.

Brent

16 November 2002, 05:24

Bob Mehaffey

Brent, I have a 10 ga LC Smith with Damacus bbls. Where can I get those brass cases and can you suggest a light starting load? Thanks

16 November 2002, 07:59

FourTails

I forgot to mention the shotgun is a 12 guage. Thanks again, Mike

16 November 2002, 09:59

Brent

quote:
Originally posted by Bob Mehaffey:
Brent, I have a 10 ga LC Smith with Damacus bbls. Where can I get those brass cases and can you suggest a light starting load? Thanks

The best place (only?) to get brass is
www.rockymountaincartridge.com It will last a life time. Amazingly good stuff, though costly, it's worth every penny in my books.

Brent

16 November 2002, 10:45

Bob Mehaffey

Thanks Brent, I'll check it out.

16 November 2002, 16:05

Dr. Duc

There is a great article on this in one of the recent "Double Gun Journal" about this very subjuct. A very scholarly presentation. Maybe 2 issues ago.

17 November 2002, 05:17

Bob Mehaffey

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Duc:
There is a great article on this in one of the recent "Double Gun Journal" about this very subjuct. A very scholarly presentation. Maybe 2 issues ago.

Dr Duc, Any idea where I could get may hands on the article? Thanks

18 November 2002, 11:25

FourTails

Bob Mehaffey, I found the article in my copy of the magazine. Thank you for refreshing my memory. Mike

18 November 2002, 20:13

The Dane

BP burns hot to start with, then the pressure decreases. Look at the barrels Thick at the breach and thin at the end. Smokeless has a more even burn and generates greater pressure down the barrel, thus a buldge at the muzzle can occur even though the load is in the "safe" zone!
Stick with the "drahm equivalent" method: same volume of BP and lead shot.
I have a 16 cal that shoots @ 110 grains of Swiss #4 behind @ 42 grams of shot. That load is usable (and deadly!) out to more than 50 meters.

[ 11-20-2002, 01:08: Message edited by: The Dane ]

25 November 2002, 06:09

DigitalDan

To all who are interested: The Double Gun Journal article referenced above is actually a long series about loading old black powder guns with smokeless...and even a bit of black. If you have guns of this nature the articles should be considered required reading. Couple of points on the subject: The alledged difference in burn rates and pressures often attributed to black and smokless powders are a myth, as clearly demonstrated by the author after substantial load/pressure testing. In many cases the pressures were higher and of longer duration with black. The thought that Damascus steel barrels are inherently weak is hooey, IF they are in good condition. If pitted and/or corroded you're on your own. One test by another author in that publication was a destructive pressure test on a badly pitted and corroded Fox and it did not fail until pressures exceeded 40,000 psi.

A sidebar to those who use brass shells in shotguns: No harm either way, but very few guns were built in this country that were intended for brass shells. Original application was for "bore" guns, that is rifled or smoothbore shotguns that fired round balls. Their proper cases in brass are of thinner wall design for this application, and most are of European origin. Shotshells of brass intended for other guns have thicker walls, their counterpart being the paper shells of years gone by. Brass in romantic I suppose but seldom historically correct.

25 November 2002, 14:39

mete

American Rifleman had an excellent article on Damascus barrels at one time.The point was that there were damascus barrels and barrels made to look like damascus. A good quality damascus is a good barrel.Is yours made by a well known maker ? In any case old guns should be treated with respect and never loade hot.

26 November 2002, 02:36

Brent

quote:
Originally posted by DigitalDan:
Shotshells of brass intended for other guns have thicker walls, their counterpart being the paper shells of years gone by. Brass in romantic I suppose but seldom historically correct.

DD, brass shells made by RMC are indeed thicker - like paper, and not romantic, just practical. They never wear, burn, or melt. They are VERY easy to use. In the long run, they are also cost effective.

Brent

27 November 2002, 04:08

DigitalDan

Wouldn't argue that point at all for any reason. My comments were directed at historical perspective. "Correctness" if you will. If one has a 'bore' rifle however, your accuracy will suffer terribly without the proper shell. BTW, to the best of my knowledge, there were NO damascus barrels made in America, the source being Europe, the English variety most prevalent in quality guns. Some have black powder load data on the flats. All that were proofed in Europe do, as I recall.

FWIW, the present load info on shotshell boxes is a reference for black powder loads.
3 1/4-1 1/8-8 as an example translates to a charge weight of some smokeless powder that is EQUIVALENT to 3 1/4 drams of black powder. That may not be the load you want but back in the old days when black was king it was the method in use.
I would not hesitate to approach the loading of Blackpowder shotshells on this basis. Another reference would be published load data for muzzle loading shotguns. I would not be trying to replicate 3 1/2" magnum goose loads however, and my thoughts are in regard to field loads only, of the 2 3/4" variety, intended for quail and bunnies.

[ 11-27-2002, 19:11: Message edited by: DigitalDan ]