Traditiond ML bolt design WARNING!

01 January 2004, 07:16

I dont know if I am the only one that this has happened to but a very serious problem occured during my last trip to the range..First of all let me say that I am waiting on traditions to contact me ,they are closed till after the new year so I have to be fair till they contact me about these issues..I just wanted to warn anyone who owns any of their bolt action muzzleloaders.First of all I own the evolution long distance and had a serious problem with the firing pin striking the primer as I went to uncock the bolt and open the action..at a point where any firearm should be at it's safest it failed and caused the gun to dischage..I briefly spoke with a nice lady last week and was told that the bolt firing pin assembly needs to be broken down and cleaned as part of the maintenance and for the gun to function properly..After some serious scrutiny between myself and a few gun buff friends of mine we realized due to fouling and a very improperly adjusted firing pin spring the gun was set for disaster ..luckily noone was injured or worse..The main issue was the tension on the firing pin spring,it seemed that there was not enough tension on the spring and due to some fouling after the trigger was pulled it didnt allow the firing pin to contact the primer..Now as I lifted the bolt which does rotate and move back and forth ever so slightly I guess it freed up the firing pin and the gun fired..This should never happen no matter how poorly the firing pin spring is adjusted..There is no fail safe on the breech end of the firing pin..Nothing .All in all a very poor and dangerous bolt design..I was lucky others might not be ..I would not be surprised if there is some sort of recall and a new bolt design is implimented..Like I said this is just a warning that this particular rifle can and will do this if all conditions present itself..Well like I said I am sure traditions will be in contact with me after the holidays and hope they due everything in their powers to correct this very dangerous situation and I will be sure to let everyone here know what happens.. Also the bolt handle seems to have broken loose from its weld where it mates to the bolt causing a very sloppy wobbly bolt..Be careful and hunt and shoot safe . Terry

10 January 2004, 16:16

Barebow

I did finally hear back from traditions today and they did admit that I HAD A PROBLEM ..They offered for me to send the bolt back and to not send the whole rifle back as THEY HAD TOO MANY THERE ALREADY ..HMMMMMMM ??????.I replied too late the whole kit and caboodle ws coming back to them for a complete inspection and they can just deal with it or nor .I really could care less about the shipping charges to send back an unsafe gun ..They were very apologetic about the INCONVIENCE and offered to take care of the problem in an expedient fashion... The bottom line is the gun and overall design is unsafe so this should be interesting...Terry < !--color--> < !--color--> < !--color--> < !--color--> < !--color--> < !--color-->

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11 January 2004, 09:46

<eldeguello>

To which of the Traditions bolt-action ML's does this pertain? I have a Lightning Liteweight, and I have seen nothing in the way it functions (or malfunctions!) that corresponds to your description. I always disassemble the bolt, and clean it inside & out thoroughly after each time it is fired.

11 January 2004, 17:44

Barebow

The rifle I have is the evolution long distance..but it appears that all of their bolt action models currently have the same bolt design .I am not familiar with your rifle but I doubt that it has the same bolt design as the new line ..I guarantee you would not be breaking down this bolt after every shot as it is a pain in the a$$ big time..Like I said I am not going to hammer them unless they fail to make things right ...

13 January 2004, 12:35

Wolfhound

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The rifle I have is the evolution long distance..but it appears that all of their bolt action models currently have the same bolt design

The Evolution is a cock on open where as the Lightning and E bolt 209 are cock on close. I know someone with an E bolt 209 who had the gun discharge apon closing the bolt. His problem was the trigger I believe. It's possible that by fixing the old problem they created a new one.

14 January 2004, 14:29

Barebow

Ok , now were getting somewhere..so I'm not crazy, just my own opinion of course..Why in the hell would they design a bolt that cocks when you open the action and that is exactly what it does..There is no fail safe on the back of the bolt such as a knurled knob on the end like the knight muzzleloaders and probably just about every other out there..no safety except for the trigger..Traditions design of their bolt action type muzzleloaders is really sucky at best and unsafe at worst..I am still waiting for them to send mine back and I will post what type of smoke they try to blow up my a$$ about what I did wrong! Terry

14 January 2004, 17:27

Wolfhound

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I am still waiting for them to send mine back and I will post what type of smoke they try to blow up my a$$ about what I did wrong!

Please do. My buddy never did get an answer about his problem. Emails and calls never got anywhere with them. He still has it sitting in his gunsafe. They were really upset though when he called it a discrace to the industry in his ML video. Guess they should have dealt with the problem instead of ignoring it.

16 January 2004, 02:54

Wolfhound

It can be ordered. I can't remember every place that sells it though. Here's clips to his videos you can watch. You can email him at randymagic@aol.com I believe he offers a discount for buying both, but I'm not sure. I bought each of mine as they came out.

21st Century Muzzleloading: http://members.aol.com/randymagic/mlclip1.wmv

Secrets of Modern Muzzleloading: http://members.aol.com/randymagic/secret.wmv

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Iam buying a knight disc as soon as I get the gun back from traditions and can unload and I mean UNLOAD it

Which Disc rifle are you interested in? I've got a 50 cal Disc Extreme if you have any questions about it. If you are better with a scope and they are legal to use, the Disc Elite might be a better choice though. The Extreme has rifle sights, the Elite does not. I belive the original Disc though is priced much lower if that's a consideration.

15 January 2004, 18:32

Barebow

Wolf , I would love to get a copy of your buddies ml video..can it be ordered or is it homemade?..The problem that happened to me was a combination of #1 a very poorly adjusted firing pin spring and #2 I guess some fouling on the bolt/ firing pin assembly itself..When things like that haunt me I dont even keep em' around as momentos let alone taking up precious space in a gun safe but I guess it is safe there because it sure isn't safe out of the safe..Iam buying a knight disc as soon as I get the gun back from traditions and can unload and I mean UNLOAD it ..I have already decided that and will strongly discourage anyone from even thinking about buying one of these rifles..Unfortunately I bought mine sight unseen off a cabelas or bass pro site and thought that was the ticket..I will NEVER do that again..They have had it for a week now and still waiting..I'll keep you posted..Terry

16 January 2004, 12:49

Barebow

Thanks again Wolf , yes I am looking at getting the knight disc elite..Is the disc extreme tapped for scope use so you can still use the open sights or would I be better off with the elite..I would like the option of having it scoped but still being able to use the open sights also..guess I want my cake and eat it too..Do you have to take the bolt apart and play games with adjusting the firing pin spring and all that crap or is the bolt assembly maintenance free...I dont know if you read my origional post but right now I am a little gun shy ..lol..especially when it comes to any type of bolt system that has to be completely disassembled and reassemble thus creating very unneeded issues..I am sorry but yes I will have alot of questions..I know you were just being nice but I really need as much info as far as likes / dislikes about the knight disc rifles..eg.Are the discs reusable??Are they easy to get in and out ..keep in mind I will have a scope on mine also..When you remove the breechplug assembly can you clean the bore from the breech end ..Is the nipple built into the breech plug or are they 2 seperate parts..Sorry to ask so many questions and I know every rifle is different but I really like triple 7 pellets and was wondering if you use pellets or powder and which type of sabot/ bullet you think shoots well outta yours..My trashditions did not shoot the power belts worth a crap..only liked the sabots..Please dont feel as if you have to answer each and every question and thanks again for all your help

16 January 2004, 16:58

Wolfhound

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Is the disc extreme tapped for scope use so you can still use the open sights or would I be better off with the elite.

All the Knights are drilled and tapped for scope use.

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I would like the option of having it scoped but still being able to use the open sights also..guess I want my cake and eat it too..

Nothing wrong with that. I'm using T/C Maxima bases (here: Maximas ) and rings. They quick detach for cleaning and so I can use the open sights.

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Do you have to take the bolt apart and play games with adjusting the firing pin spring and all that crap or is the bolt assembly maintenance free...I dont know if you read my origional post but right now I am a little gun shy ..lol..especially when it comes to any type of bolt system that has to be completely disassembled and reassemble thus creating very unneeded issues

The Disc style bolt (Disc, disc Extreme, and Disc Elite all have basically the same bolt) are the easiest bolts to clean. How does 2 pieces sound? The stainless steel face is one and the internal mechanism is the other. No further dissasembly required. Just wipe the mechanism down and oil and clean the bolt face. Then they screw together. When you get one your manual will have the specifics.

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Are the discs reusable??Are they easy to get in and out ..

Yes and yes. I get 4 or 5 uses out of them. Just open the bolt and tip the gun, they fall right out. I use a scope too. Note this is for the Extreme and the Elite the Original uses a different Disc. I've no experience with it.

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When you remove the breechplug assembly can you clean the bore from the breech end

After you remove the bolt and breach plug you can clean the barrel if you are using a long enough range rod. I prefer to clean from the muzzle end. I use a plastic range rod so it doesn't damage my rifling.

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Is the nipple built into the breech plug or are they 2 seperate parts

They are 1 piece. Less parts to worry about.

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Sorry to ask so many questions and I know every rifle is different but I really like triple 7 pellets and was wondering if you use pellets or powder and which type of sabot/ bullet you think shoots well outta yours.

I use loose 777 because of the cost savings. I've put something like 3 or 400 rounds through mine. These shoot well: Knight Jacketed bullets These do too, but they're kinda pricey: Barnes bullets I'm currently using the platinum tips: Winchester bullets You should be able to find a bullet that shoots well with 100 gr of 777 pellets.

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Please dont feel as if you have to answer each and every question and thanks again for all your help

No problem. My muzzleloader is my favorite muzzleloading topic.

One suggestion though, upgrade your ramrod when you get the rifle. Knight factory ramrods are not very good. Everything else about em is but not the ramrod. I recomend these: XS Sights Powerrod

17 January 2004, 16:45

Wolfhound

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Any suggestions will be appreciated on a one piece rod that will not crack or fall a part?

XS Sights Powerrod gets my highest recomendation. It's a little pricey, but it's worth every penny. There's a link to their site in my last post. It's a solid aluminum rod and has a good t-handle on one end. Perfect fit for my DIsc Extreme and Wolverine 209. I'm going to buy one for my GPR too.