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Re: Hard Cast Bullets

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21 January 2004, 18:20
BlackHawk1
Re: Hard Cast Bullets
Quote:

Hunting bullets for a .45-70 are always soft.

Brent



Not exactly. Check out Beartooth Bullets and Cast Performance Bullets. Both companies produce hard cast (BHN 21) "hunting bullets" for the 45-70.
22 January 2004, 02:56
Brent
Not in .452" they don't.

You are correct though there are some hard lead .45-70 bullet producers. The logic of which escapes me in unless you are selling for the Africa market like Garrett. Otherwise, hard case non-expanding bullets are illegal everywhere I know of, in North America.

I stand by what I did say, though, hard cast .452" bullets are meant for pistols and pistol velocities. There is no reason to use hard lead in a rifle application, esp. the situation proposed.

Brent
22 January 2004, 06:24
bulldog
Brent,
I stated in my first post that the bullet in question is and will, forever be, 0.459" in diameter, period! 45/70 bullets can be this dia., but most are listed at 0.458" in diameter. The 0.452" dia. bullet you keep pointing out is in fact one for the 45 Colt, or known as the 45 long colt.

"Hard Case non-expanding bullets" are NOT illegal in the U. S. of A.
If so, how come you can buy full metal jacketed bullets for the 223, 308, and all the pistol calibers you want.

If you like soft pointy bullets, good for you, but me, I like my bullets HARD......Wink
Bulldog...
22 January 2004, 10:28
Brent
Mucho apologies. Somewhere else the .452s snuck in and yes, I know exactly what they are intended for.

Hard bullets, designed not to expand are illegal for HUNTING, not plinking, in all the states that I've ever bother to check (about 6 or 8). Is it legal to shoot solids or FMJ on game in your state? If so, have at it.

Brent
22 January 2004, 12:01
bulldog
I apologize also, as I see that you live in Iowa, here in Louisiana, our game laws are a lot more hunter friendly than yours. We can shoot FMJ's, but don't because of what they are designed for. The Hard cast bullet I have, is designed for game animals, game animals of the LARGE type...Wink

Bulldog...
22 January 2004, 12:34
Brent
Bulldog,
WHAT Large animals in LA? Certainly not those tiny deer you guys shoot down there

Hogs I suppose. Up here we can shoot hogs with any bullet, any cartridge, any gun. Heck we can use a hammer if we want. They are not game animals.

I fine a .22 rf with bullets of any flavor works fine.

Brent
22 January 2004, 14:06
bulldog
LOL!!!! Brent......
Yes we do have small deer down here...
Hogs yes, any caliber can work. Deer down here run around 125, but this year the weight did show up as bigger....like 150+ lb.s..... I did kill a nice 8 pt. that weighted in at 180, must of been one of those blue deer that we imported in a few years back from Iowa....
Actually what I want in a bullet is one with a BIG meplat, to open a large channel while breaking all the bones it encounters.
What do your deer run in weight up there?
Bulldog...
22 January 2004, 16:39
Brent
bulldog,

I shot a fawn button buck that probably went 150# on the hoof. And 1.5 yr doe went probably 175-180. I did not weigh them this year however, so take that with a grain of salt. The two previous years I have killed some nice does that I taped out (PA DNR sells a tape for this) at 240 lbs live weight. They were average for mature does 2.5-4.5 yrs old.



This year, I saw a doe at several hundred yards and failing light that was so much bigger than all the others, I think it would easily top 300#. Two friends have killed does well over this, one over 450# by direct measure on a scale no less - that was in Missouri however.



Now, about racks,,,,,



Oh yes, about big fat meplates, check out www.iastate.edu/~codi/PPB/PPB.html This is my own website and my own home made bullets. You can see some big meplates that I make in pure lead bullets. The pages here concern my cartridge rifles but identical bullets are used in my underhammer muzzleloader the past two years. They go end for end through our "average" sized does. Never recovered one yet.





Dang, just looked and realized I lied. No pictures of flatnosed bullets at all. Well, you will have to trust me on that, it's just another nose punch in the swage. I can send pictures though if interested.



Brent
24 January 2004, 07:34
<eldeguello>
Quote:

Not in .452" they don't.



You are correct though there are some hard lead .45-70 bullet producers. The logic of which escapes me in unless you are selling for the Africa market like Garrett. Otherwise, hard case non-expanding bullets are illegal everywhere I know of, in North America.





Non-expanding, jacketed bullets and "solids" of the type made for dangerous African game are generally not legal for hunting in the U.S. However, this DOES NOT APPLY to cast lead alloy bullets. Many a deer, elk, and bear has been killed with a hard-cast bullet ina handgun, and the same type can legally be fired from a rifle! A .45-caliber flat-nose, hard bullet at medium to low velocities will kill heavy animals as well as any expanding bullet. As a matter of fact, there are FEW expanding pistol bullets that can be relied upon to expand without fail after their speed has dropped below 1000 FPS or so. If they do, then they're too frangible for use at higher speeds!



Quite true, there are no .452" (or .454" for that matter) hard cast bullets for the .45/70, since it requires bullets at least .457" or more. However, there are PLENTY of hard-cast .457"-.458" bullets that are for the .45/70 and other .45 caliber rifles! MOST of them run somewhat heavier than a pistol slug!!