I recently received a new CVA Kodiak Magnum in .45 cal as a gift and enjoy it, but have since heard many bad things about the .45 cal muzzle loaders. Everyone tells me that the .50 cal is the only way to go, but hey, make me understand why.

I plan to primarily hunt deer with it, but have a goal to take Elk. I thought that with the proper bullet combination that it should work fine, but again, what do I know?

So, my question, is this caliber fully capable of taking Elk out to 200yds and if so, what bullet type and weight is suggested. I've started using some of PR's sabot Extreme HP 265 gran bullets with good results. Is this the combination I need or should I give up on the .45 cal for Elk?

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

That combo will kill a POLAR Bear !

Fully Capable of taking elk - No.

Most states have minimum caliber restrictions for elk with a muzzleloader, and at least in Colorado, that limit is .50 caliber. Colorado also does not allow sabots or pelletized powder.

Also, in spite of what you read, a conventionally loaded muzzleloader is not a 200-yard elk rifle. Unless you are shooting a heavy for caliber .45 caliber bullet, you will probably chase an elk a long way if you hit it at 200 yards with the average muzzleloader projectile. The velocity drops off fast, and though the elk may be hit in a fatal area, he or she may take a while to realize it.

Loud-N-Boomer is correct. There is no way a 45 caliber wold be my choice for elk. Would it work? Yeah if everything is perfect. Would it be legal? Not in my home state, nor most others that have elk.

I've shot 6 elk with blackpowder over the years and firmly believe a .54 is the best medicine for them. A full grown elk is a large animal and lives in some of the roughest country imagineable. Hit it with too light of a weapon and you may very well never recover it.

Give the game the amount of respect it is due. Use a proper weapon. You could concievably kill any elk ever born with a .22, but would be foolish to try.

Mac

quote:

Most states have minimum caliber restrictions for elk with a muzzleloader, and at least in Colorado, that limit is .50 caliber. Colorado also does not allow sabots or pelletized powder.

I use a couple of old-style cast lead .45/70 bullets in one of my fast-twist ML barrels. There is no doubt in my mind that the 420-grain flatnose cast soft-lead bullet with 120 grains of FFg is fully capable of killing an elk! However, I cannot use it in a number of jurisdictions because they only permit .50 cal. and larger. In addition, I would not shoot a ML at any elk that was 200 yards away. 125, maybe.

So if you plan on elk hunting with a ML, it is better to use a .50, just for this reason if no other. For a big, tough critter like a bull elk, you'll never convince me that a pistol bullet in a sabot is satisfactory. For deer, perhaps. Elk, moose & big bears, no.

Wow!

Great replies guys!

Nothing I can add, so won't try.

Other than no scopes either. They did relent on the inlines which CO wouldn't allow for a few yrs. Turns out inlines just might be older than any type. Too long ago for my research to turn up what's true so I'll go along with 'em there too.

As I hunt elk everyear and just might take it along and wanted enough power when the time came to buy a bp. I got the .54 just for that reason.

One day I was alone at the range and set up steel silhoette's at 25yd increments clear out to the full sized ram at 200yds. Proceded to shoot from the bench over bags to test the REAL slugs .300gr, and to learn what the gun/load was capable of.

Each target was a hit first shot out to 175yds which very much pleased me as I'm a long time scope shooter and had to relearn iron sights.

On the ram, increased to 120gr FFg to give it more benefit and still took six shots to hit it. I walked out to see the mark and what could be learned.

Found the slug still had enough power to flatten it to a flat disk. This was with self cast so hard I couldn't mark it with a thumb nail which I wouldn't shoot at game anyway.

Reason for even having them was lack of experience with a ml. I usually don't stop casting til a coffee can is full and that's what happened that time. They are hard to load too. Solved this by relief boring the muzzle and making a slide hammer set up to drive them in easy. Sure not the way to go, but, don't believe it hurts anything. The rod was drilled out with a center drill that fits the slug nose perfectly. Don't matter how dirty the bore is either. I can shoot balls all day and still load with it. This is halfassed though and I admit it. Am sure some of you long time bp shooters will cringe when reading this. But, it's learning with a cheap gun. I'd sure never treat a good barrel like this but, on the other hand I don't see, or believe there's any damage being done other than spooking you old timers.

These 300gr REALs sure do shoot well in this 32" twist, and I shoot offhand balls mostly as that's what the rules of the match game is that I shoot. I wanted something that would shoot slugs as I don't feel a ball is good enough for me to shoot elk with. But, again I feel the velocity is increased enough over a 400gr to merit using the 300gr which is plenty heavy enough if range is kept to less than 125yds.

Just sharing what I've learned is all, no I don't profess to know much about the subject, nor am I suggesting anyone else do it this way.

Hope it helps feed the fire of knowledge is all.

Good shootin,

George

I'm surprised ! round balls shoot accurately in a 1in32 twist ?

The CVA Kodiak is not at all built to shoot heavy conicals.

Some .45 rifles are and would be perfectly suitable for M/L elk hunting but for the laws in a few states. HEAVY CONICALS

They seem to do ok for me. But, I'm a lousy offhand shot with irons.

Off the sand bags they'll do better than I can see/hold. About 5" ten shots at 100yds is about as good as I can do. Others have made less than 2" 5 shot groups with the gun with both balls and 300gr REAL's.

About all the balls I shoot are to play with and for the bp match once a month for fun.

Guess I should update details on the slide hammer a little bit before the critics see it and start giving me the hell I need.

The slide part is about 4-5oz's, my hands are messed up from too many injuries. Hurts like H to push on the rods like normal because of it. Can't grip the rods like most can. It's not just to drive over sized hard slugs down like it sounds at first reading. Hope this clears that up some.

I nthe match's, I shoot 40-50gr FFg, for the slugs at least 100gr FFg, up to CVA's max of 120gr.

Thanks for asking,

George

WHUT?

Brain Damage will do that 1

Years ago I shot a big bison from a private herd near Steamboat Springs with an original .45-caliber Alex Henry percussion rifle that had been loaned to me by the late Lynton McKenzie.

(McKenzie was a friend and hunting partner as well as an internationally known firearms engraver and restorer, and muzzleloading enthusiast. His collection of European muzzleloading rifles was unbelievable.)

His Alex Henry rifle shot a 500-grain paper-patched bullet we cast from the original mould that came with the rifle. One shot at 75 yards killed the bull almost in its tracks. We recovered the bullet under the hide on the off shoulder.

I don't remember the load I used, or what the velocity might have been, but that 150-year-old rifle did what it was supposed to do.

There's no way I would try 200-yard shots on an elk with that rifle, though.

Bill Quimby

Bill,
The velocity of a 500 gr bullet in such a rifle is running about 1250-1300 fps. Possibly as much as the mid 1300s at most. The long .45 paper patch is a fine bullet in a black powder arm and is lethal as far out as you can hit with it. It would be fine, at 200-300-500 yds for bison - if you know your drops and ranges. They ballists equal, almost exactly, what they buffalo hunters used to all be exterminate the species.

Brent

quote:

Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:
Fully Capable of taking elk - No.

Most states have minimum caliber restrictions for elk with a muzzleloader, and at least in Colorado, that limit is .50 caliber. Colorado also does not allow sabots or pelletized powder.

Also, in spite of what you read, a conventionally loaded muzzleloader is not a 200-yard elk rifle. Unless you are shooting a heavy for caliber .45 caliber bullet, you will probably chase an elk a long way if you hit it at 200 yards with the average muzzleloader projectile. The velocity drops off fast, and though the elk may be hit in a fatal area, he or she may take a while to realize it.

Wrong....You can take an Elk in Colorado with a .45Cal muzzleloader...If you use it during the centerfire season. I like the 460gr. slugs
http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/page3.html

T/C NUT,

You are mistaken on using a 45 caliber blackpowder rifle for elk in any season in Colorado. The minimum caliber legal for taking elk in the state of Colorado in any season is 50 caliber. Says so right in the regulations.

The regulations list all legals weapons including archery, crossbow, blackpowder, handgun and centerfile rifle and they do not differentiate between the seasons. I'd hate to see anyone get a ticket with a healthy fine because they don't read or understand the regulations. Bottom line is that a 45 caliber blackpowder rifle is eagal for deer and antelope in Colorado, but is not legal for elk.

Mac

Mac:

You are absolutely correct about .45 Cal m/l being illeagal for hunting elk in Colorado.

Like you say: this IS in the regulations booklets. Anyone wanting to confirm this. Please go to: www.wildlife.state.co.us
and read up on the regs. This rule has been in effect for many years.

George