Winchester 1885 by Miroku

21 July 2021, 18:41

If you haven't shot one of the .22 cal Winchester 1885's made by Miroku of Japan, you're missing a treat. For openers, they are just beautiful. Next they are wonderful shooters and far more accurate than you might expect. My first was the more recently built "Hunter" with a butt pad and round barrel. I couldn't believe how accurate it was so I bought a second one. The second one is is visually close in appearance to the originals with its crescent butt plate, extended upper tang, 1/2 rnd-1/2 oct barrel, and gorgeous wood for a Grade 1 finish. Talk about a gorgeous with the unexpected bonus of being accurate~!!

25 July 2021, 17:17

dwcars

I've never seen anything made by Miroku that wasn't really beautiful. I think that the earlier Browning labeled B-78's and 1885's were a tiny bit screwed up by some of the the variations in mechanical designs they made from the original Winchester 1885's. I've read a number of complaints about difficulties with trigger work and re-barreling those Browning issued rifles. Miroku certainly has the engineering capabilities to "fix" any perceived flaws in the original design, but what actual flaws existed~? Miroku fixed the trigger design problem the original Win 52's had~! I'd live to see one of their current 1885's with one of their very accurate barrels in a long arm flat shooting modern cartridge like a 6.5 Grendel. AND, it should retain all the beauty of an original Winchester 1885. Just look at the number of caliber's Winchester offered over the years.

02 August 2021, 01:27

rcraig

I have the oct/round version in 17HMR, very nice rifle, fun to shoot.

02 August 2021, 03:45

Use Enough Gun

My Miroku made Winchester 1885 rimfire is a 17 WSM with an octagonal barrel and topped with a Swarovski Z-3 scope.

I also have a Browning 1885 in .270 Winchester with a Leupold Vari-X III on top.

24 August 2021, 18:24

mrjulian_1970

I have 2 of Winchester/Miroku 1885's.

One in 45-70 which is the most accurate rifle I own. It will cloverleaf 5 shots at 100yds using the 405gr Rems.

The other is in 375H&H. Would really benefit from a better trigger but is still fun.

Both are octagonal barrels, the 375 is 28".

25 August 2021, 01:39

dpcd

Good quality rifles; and I have rebarreled several ofthem. The design deviates massively from the original Browning/Winchester design, both the leaf and coil spring versions, and they are extremely difficult to assemble. No reason for it, other than to be different. Miroku didn't "fix" anything (there was nothing to fix); they just redesigned it.
As long as you don't have to take them apart, they are fine.

25 August 2021, 03:05

RogersGunWorks

DPCD is 100% right, of course. When it comes to truly classic firearms like the Winchester M1885, the words "improved" or "redesigned" are code for changes that make it easier and cheaper to produce a look-alike copy rather than the original. As manufactured by Winchester John Browning's M1885 needs no improvement, save a smaller diameter firing pin for smokeless ammunition or perhaps an extractor for new fangled rimless cartridges. Having built rifles on both the original and "improved" Winchester single shot action, I can attest the original is much to be preferred.

The Browning/Winchester single shot is the epitome of excellence of design and simplicity. The Miroku single shot, while functionally satisfactory, is the epitome of a can of worms.

Roger

25 August 2021, 05:14

dpcd

Well put, RA, as usual.

02 October 2021, 02:16

209jones

Had a few Browning 1885's, definitely easier to work on than the B78 was, I used a vice to get the pins out and back in for convenience, but have also done it sitting in the livingroom on my lap. Biggest trick is getting the dual springs back in. Had a few powder spills into it on my 32-40, so, had to learn how to do it when that occurred, whereever it occurred. Still have a Browning in 223 and a Win in 300H&H, triggers are really the only bugaboo with them,the 300 is the last one I bought, trigger on it seems better than the Browning was. Wish Win would build low walls in centrefire again and put some good wood on those guns again.

10 December 2021, 05:29

gnoahhh

I own a Winchester/Miroku Low Wall .22LR and it's a very accurate rifle- easily keeping up with my Winchester 52A and Stevens Walnut Hill in that regard. I wouldn't trade it for the world. Another Miroku Low Wall I campaign is a .223 that is stunningly accurate also, so much so that I dropped a couple other .223's which paled in comparison. Only issue is its 1-12" twist barrel which limits bullet choices, but I'm a "light and fast" kind of guy so it's a moot point.

As the owner of a safe full of vintage High Walls, Low Walls, Ballards, and Stevens, I gotta say the Mirokus are top-notch in my opinion.

12 December 2021, 01:08

df06

I just acquired a shot show special Win 1885 in 22h. It has great wood. I’ve shot it some and it seems to be pretty accurate, 1”, 5 shots at 100 yards.

17 March 2022, 23:41

dwcars

quote:
Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
DPCD is 100% right, of course. When it comes to truly classic firearms like the Winchester M1885, the words "improved" or "redesigned" are code for changes that make it easier and cheaper to produce a look-alike copy rather than the original. As manufactured by Winchester John Browning's M1885 needs no improvement, save a smaller diameter firing pin for smokeless ammunition or perhaps an extractor for new fangled rimless cartridges. Having built rifles on both the original and "improved" Winchester single shot action, I can attest the original is much to be preferred.

The Browning/Winchester single shot is the epitome of excellence of design and simplicity. The Miroku single shot, while functionally satisfactory, is the epitome of a can of worms.

Roger

I couldn't find a way to PM you, so I guess everybody will see it.
I'm thinking very seriously about having an 1885 built for one of the new super accurate 6mm cartridges. I don't know where to start. I also don't know whether a low-wall is sufficiently strong to handle these higher pressure cartridges. The originals I see for sale generally have stocks that are pretty beat up and that would add another $800 to $1000 for stock work even though I already own a couple of pretty decent blanks.
Can I call you and pick your brain for guidance~?

18 March 2022, 01:21

RogersGunWorks

quote:
Originally posted by dwcars:
quote:
Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
DPCD is 100% right, of course. When it comes to truly classic firearms like the Winchester M1885, the words "improved" or "redesigned" are code for changes that make it easier and cheaper to produce a look-alike copy rather than the original. As manufactured by Winchester John Browning's M1885 needs no improvement, save a smaller diameter firing pin for smokeless ammunition or perhaps an extractor for new fangled rimless cartridges. Having built rifles on both the original and "improved" Winchester single shot action, I can attest the original is much to be preferred.

The Browning/Winchester single shot is the epitome of excellence of design and simplicity. The Miroku single shot, while functionally satisfactory, is the epitome of a can of worms.

Roger

I couldn't find a way to PM you, so I guess everybody will see it.
I'm thinking very seriously about having an 1885 built for one of the new super accurate 6mm cartridges. I don't know where to start. I also don't know whether a low-wall is sufficiently strong to handle these higher pressure cartridges. The originals I see for sale generally have stocks that are pretty beat up and that would add another $800 to $1000 for stock work even though I already own a couple of pretty decent blanks.
Can I call you and pick your brain for guidance~?

Sir: With your goal of building a rifle for a modern 6mm cartridge, your choice of action would be limited to the recently produced Winchester/Browning actions. There are two reasons for this. First, modern cartridges like the 6XC, 6x47 Lapua, or the 6mm Creedmoor are all rimless cartridges. Original M1885s were made strictly for rimmed cartridges. Rather than trying to convert an original action for rimless cartridges, it would be better to use an action designed for them. Second and more critically, the mild steel used in original M1885s is a far cry from modern alloy steel. The last original was made >100 years ago. While the M1885 (original) is a wonderfully strong action, it is generally considered best limited to cartridges operating at 30-06 levels. Modern, high-intensity cartridges exceed this limit considerably. Also, by buying a newer rifle you'll be able to use the existing stock & forend, some of which are attractive. Buying a used Miroku M1885 will not be inexpensive--nothing is today--but you'd be money ahead were you to buy an original action, have it re-worked internally, re-color case hardened and re-stocked. I believe the Miroku Low Walls were offered in .243 Winchester which would make the action suitable for re-barreling to a modern 6mm. Hope this answers your questions.

Roger

25 March 2022, 21:06

dwcars

quote:
Originally posted by gnoahhh:
I own a Winchester/Miroku Low Wall .22LR and it's a very accurate rifle- easily keeping up with my Winchester 52A and Stevens Walnut Hill in that regard. I wouldn't trade it for the world. Another Miroku Low Wall I campaign is a .223 that is stunningly accurate also, so much so that I dropped a couple other .223's which paled in comparison. Only issue is its 1-12" twist barrel which limits bullet choices, but I'm a "light and fast" kind of guy so it's a moot point.

As the owner of a safe full of vintage High Walls, Low Walls, Ballards, and Stevens, I gotta say the Mirokus are top-notch in my opinion.

Regarding the accuracy of the Miroku barrels, how would you like to see on in the new 6mm-ARC caliber~? I think it would be a world class competitive shooter~!

07 April 2022, 21:37

RJM.@Jax.FL

Roger & dpcd, & anyone who can offer their knowledge.

I have two reproduction 1885's both Uberti's
One is a High Wall in 45-70 and the other is a Low Wall in 32-40. The Low Wall started life as a 38-40 or something along that line but one of the prior owners changed it out.

I plan on re barreling the 45-70 to a smaller cartridge probably another 35-40 Maynard.

Question:
Do you know if the Uberti 1885'internal design is like the 'Original' or more like the 78 or Mirok.

Thanks in advance

Bob

quote:
Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
DPCD is 100% right, of course. When it comes to truly classic firearms like the Winchester M1885, the words "improved" or "redesigned" are code for changes that make it easier and cheaper to produce a look-alike copy rather than the original. As manufactured by Winchester John Browning's M1885 needs no improvement, save a smaller diameter firing pin for smokeless ammunition or perhaps an extractor for new fangled rimless cartridges. Having built rifles on both the original and "improved" Winchester single shot action, I can attest the original is much to be preferred.

The Browning/Winchester single shot is the epitome of excellence of design and simplicity. The Miroku single shot, while functionally satisfactory, is the epitome of a can of worms.

Roger

15 April 2022, 05:43

ssdave

Uberti 1885 is very similar to original Winchester, with some work, the parts will interchange, some may drop in.

15 June 2022, 18:59

209jones

The Miroku Low Wall has been chambered in 260rem and 6.5x55, so, it will handle pressure. THe Uberti is maybe questionable, although, the Selous stalking rifle is now out in 303Brit.I can remember seeing notes on it being a low pressure action years ago, but, maybe they beefed it up a bit. I had thought about acquiring one, then decided not to at the time because of that.

02 August 2022, 05:20

dwcars

quote:
Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
quote:
Originally posted by dwcars:
quote:
Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
DPCD is 100% right, of course. When it comes to truly classic firearms like the Winchester M1885, the words "improved" or "redesigned" are code for changes that make it easier and cheaper to produce a look-alike copy rather than the original. As manufactured by Winchester John Browning's M1885 needs no improvement, save a smaller diameter firing pin for smokeless ammunition or perhaps an extractor for new fangled rimless cartridges. Having built rifles on both the original and "improved" Winchester single shot action, I can attest the original is much to be preferred.

The Browning/Winchester single shot is the epitome of excellence of design and simplicity. The Miroku single shot, while functionally satisfactory, is the epitome of a can of worms.

Roger

I couldn't find a way to PM you, so I guess everybody will see it.
I'm thinking very seriously about having an 1885 built for one of the new super accurate 6mm cartridges. I don't know where to start. I also don't know whether a low-wall is sufficiently strong to handle these higher pressure cartridges. The originals I see for sale generally have stocks that are pretty beat up and that would add another $800 to $1000 for stock work even though I already own a couple of pretty decent blanks.
Can I call you and pick your brain for guidance~?

Sir: With your goal of building a rifle for a modern 6mm cartridge, your choice of action would be limited to the recently produced Winchester/Browning actions. There are two reasons for this. First, modern cartridges like the 6XC, 6x47 Lapua, or the 6mm Creedmoor are all rimless cartridges. Original M1885s were made strictly for rimmed cartridges. Rather than trying to convert an original action for rimless cartridges, it would be better to use an action designed for them. Second and more critically, the mild steel used in original M1885s is a far cry from modern alloy steel. The last original was made >100 years ago. While the M1885 (original) is a wonderfully strong action, it is generally considered best limited to cartridges operating at 30-06 levels. Modern, high-intensity cartridges exceed this limit considerably. Also, by buying a newer rifle you'll be able to use the existing stock & forend, some of which are attractive. Buying a used Miroku M1885 will not be inexpensive--nothing is today--but you'd be money ahead were you to buy an original action, have it re-worked internally, re-color case hardened and re-stocked. I believe the Miroku Low Walls were offered in .243 Winchester which would make the action suitable for re-barreling to a modern 6mm. Hope this answers your questions.

Roger

I see where Winchester is offering Miroku built 1885 lo-walls in 6.5 Creedmore and 6mm Creedmore. The only reason I haven't bought one of them is the appearance. I don't like checkering, I don't like the lack of a extended tang, and I don't like the shotgun but and soft recoil pad. The best looking Mikoru 1885 was built for US Repeating Arms with the 1/2 oct 1/2 rnd barrel, extended tang, and the crescent butt plate. Believe me when I say that if Winchester offered that configuration in 6mm Creedmore I'd be shooting one today~!

08 August 2022, 19:37

dwcars

quote:
Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
DPCD is 100% right, of course. When it comes to truly classic firearms like the Winchester M1885, the words "improved" or "redesigned" are code for changes that make it easier and cheaper to produce a look-alike copy rather than the original. As manufactured by Winchester John Browning's M1885 needs no improvement, save a smaller diameter firing pin for smokeless ammunition or perhaps an extractor for new fangled rimless cartridges. Having built rifles on both the original and "improved" Winchester single shot action, I can attest the original is much to be preferred.

The Browning/Winchester single shot is the epitome of excellence of design and simplicity. The Miroku single shot, while functionally satisfactory, is the epitome of a can of worms.

Roger

From a 'Gunsmithing' point of view, you're probably 100% correct. However, from a visual and aesthetic point of view, the '85s made when US Repeating Arms owned Winchester were the epitome of beauty. Crescent butt, 1/2 octagon 1/2 barrel, extended tang make them real eye candy. One of mine has a tang sight and a Malcolm scope which really make it look like the 'real deal'. And as you know, Miroku barrels make them all tack drivers~!

08 August 2022, 20:10

RJM.@Jax.FL

Thanks DAVE..!

quote:
Originally posted by ssdave:
Uberti 1885 is very similar to original Winchester, with some work, the parts will interchange, some may drop in.

15 August 2022, 18:51

dwcars

quote:
Originally posted by gnoahhh:
I own a Winchester/Miroku Low Wall .22LR and it's a very accurate rifle- easily keeping up with my Winchester 52A and Stevens Walnut Hill in that regard. I wouldn't trade it for the world. Another Miroku Low Wall I campaign is a .223 that is stunningly accurate also, so much so that I dropped a couple other .223's which paled in comparison. Only issue is its 1-12" twist barrel which limits bullet choices, but I'm a "light and fast" kind of guy so it's a moot point.

As the owner of a safe full of vintage High Walls, Low Walls, Ballards, and Stevens, I gotta say the Mirokus are top-notch in my opinion.

I don't normally reply to posts, but in this case I have to respond with a loud "AMEN brother". My personal experience with the Miroku 1885 attests to you statement, but when you said that it would out-shoot your 52 my impressions were confirmed~!