The Accurate Reloading Forums
Charity Rifle Chambering Poll
13 March 2005, 05:37
Bill SovernsCharity Rifle Chambering Poll
Since I will be auctioning off the rifle on this forum I thought this would be appropriate. Vote for your choice of chambering in .284 caliber.7x57 mauser7mm-08284 Winchester280 Remington
13 March 2005, 11:47
bluetickBill
How can you do a .280 Rem.? It's a short action.
Shawn
13 March 2005, 17:11
Bill Soverns
oops.
Provided it fits I would think the 7x57 would be the natural choice. Best of luck on the project.
Aut vincere aut mori
If you are using the NECG sights, I think the 7X57 is the proper caliber.
for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside
13 March 2005, 23:41
kaboomHow about chambering it for the .275 Rigby and having same engraved on the barrel ? That'll confuse your hunting buddies ! A lot of potetial bidders may already have a 7mm mauser, but you would be the only kid on the block with a 275 Rigby !
13 March 2005, 23:52
ElCaballeroI also vote for a 275 rigby designation on the barrel.
13 March 2005, 23:54
ElCaballeroWould a barrel band sling swivel stud be of intrest? If so let me know the size and brand desired and I will order one.
14 March 2005, 04:13
ForrestBIf we go the classic route, I say lets go all the way. Mark it 7mm Rigby, add the banded sling swivel and make it a proper English light safari rifle.
It would take a little more work and expense, but I'd like to see the rifle built on a Mauser action to remain true to the classic styling.
Another option would be to make it a really pretty mannlicher-stocked rifle. That would light a fire under some raffle participants, but it might turn some others off. Any thoughts about this?
______________________________
"Truth is the daughter of time."
Francis Bacon
14 March 2005, 04:50
gasgunner7x57
Mannlicher stock
John
14 March 2005, 06:02
Bwana-be275 Rigby!!
And what say we procure 100 275 cases from Europe somewhere to go with it?
14 March 2005, 09:26
Mike_DettorreIs everyone sure that 7x57 will fit in the MRC short action?
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
14 March 2005, 09:30
CustomstoxMike, if it doesn't fit, I have an Argentine 09 that would do. It is just sitting around in a drawer whining to be made into a rifle anyway.
Otherwise, I think we ought to dance with the gal (and the action) what brung us.
14 March 2005, 10:27
22WRFquote:
Originally posted by Customstox:
Mike, if it doesn't fit, I have an Argentine 09 that would do. It is just sitting around in a drawer whining to be made into a rifle anyway.
Otherwise, I think we ought to dance with the gal (and the action) what brung us.
I certainly agree about dancing with the Gal that "brung us". And maybe we ought to consider a different caliber barrel if the 7mm barrel isn't going to work. To that end, I could offer one more option. I also happen to have on hand a 25 Caliber Douglas XX Featherweight barrel. I was going to use it to make a .250 Savage on a chopped 1909 Argie Action, but maybe you guys want to use it to make a .250 Savage on the MRC Shortie. On the other hand, a 7-08 is so darn close to the 7 x 57 in performance and would certainly work on the Shortie as well.
14 March 2005, 18:07
Bill SovernsPulled this off MRC website
"This action will handle any cartridge from the 243 Winchester up to 300 Winchester Short Magnum length cartridges."
The action and the barrel in 7mm should work out fine. I will keep watching the poll but for now its pretty clear that the 7x57 chambering is the winner.
14 March 2005, 18:26
Mike_DettorreGuys not trying to be a troublemaker I just don't want folks to get their hopes up...plus I admit there are a lot more experienced folks than I am at gun building
Short Action Calibers such as 243-300 WSM generally have a COL of 2.8 inches with a case length of less than or equal to 2.1.
The 7x57 has a case length of 2.235 and a COL of about 3.05 to 3.1 depneding on bullet.
Also I know of know factory gun that uses a short action for either the 6.5x55 or the 7x57 they all use a standard action.
I think the last thing we would want is to build a gun that is a compromise...from a project management stand point you may wish to decide early on is the action going to drive the caliber or is the caliber selection going to drive the action as Cusotmox has said he has a 1909 argentine that needs a home.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
14 March 2005, 19:20
Bill SovernsThe magazine box on the short action is 3.125 long. I will call MRC this morning and verify that.
14 March 2005, 19:26
gasgunnerThe montana short action is not really a short action, I would call it an intermediate length action. Magazine length is 3.16". It will handle the 7x57 or the .257 roberts just fine.
John
Bill, I guess you posted as I was writing my post. I just measured the inside of the box and it is 3.16. I bought the action for this reason, but it is just to heavy for what I had in mind.
14 March 2005, 19:53
Mike_DettorreOuststanding then...all is settled...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
14 March 2005, 20:17
CustomstoxMike, to clarify, I did not feel that you were being a troublemaker. You brought up a valid point. It is best that all comments and issues be examined to begin with.
15 March 2005, 00:30
Mike_DettorreChic,
I never thought that at all...my comment was mostly "in jest"...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
The short action M1999 will accommodate a 7x57, period. It will even hold the slightly longer 6.5x55. I have done the math a zillion times, but the numbers reside at my office. If needed, I'll post tomorrow.
- mike
*********************
The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart
15 March 2005, 00:42
Stu Cquote:
short action M1999 will accommodate a 7x57, period. It will even hold the slightly longer 6.5x55.
So how is it that a 6.5x
55 is slightly longer than a 7x
57? And here I am thinking how logical Euro cartridge classification is! Guess you're talking OACL?
Stu,
OACL, what else?? The case length is not relevant to what max loaded cartridge length the magazine will hold. Next time we get together, remind me to bring the relevant numbers for the 7x57 and 6.5x55 - you'll see what I'm after.
- mike
*********************
The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart
15 March 2005, 08:29
Recoil RobJust seems to me that an American made action deserves an American caliber, so if it's definately the Montana -.284 Win.
If you really want a 7x57, a.k.a. .275 Rigby light safari gun (which I think is a great idea) then use the Argie 1909.
This is how I think, don't ask for explanations, it hurts too much.
15 March 2005, 08:46
wildcat junkiequote:
Originally posted by Stu C:
quote:
short action M1999 will accommodate a 7x57, period. It will even hold the slightly longer 6.5x55.
So how is it that a 6.5x
55 is slightly longer than a 7x
57? And here I am thinking how logical Euro cartridge classification is! Guess you're talking OACL?
The 6.5X55 is designed for longer, high SD bullets and has a OAL of 3.150" compared to 3.05" for the 7X57.
15 March 2005, 16:11
HP Shooterquote:
Originally posted by Bwana-be:
275 Rigby!!
And what say we procure 100 275 cases from Europe somewhere to go with it?
I'll vote for that as well. The correctly headstamped cases are a cool idea too!
15 March 2005, 18:34
1894mk2275rigby cases (and ammo) are available from David Little of Kyanamco.
16 March 2005, 07:07
tdobeshI'll admit that I voted for the 284win. But I do really like the idea of marking the rifle for the 275 Rigby if the 7X57 is the cartridge it is to be chambered for. Of coarse I'm always trying to be different just to be different. Have to do things the hard way.
Tom
16 March 2005, 14:30
ErikDLooks like 7X57 is the way to go, and a good international choice.
16 March 2005, 14:42
csutton7I'm in line with the 275 rigby fans--chris
16 March 2005, 22:28
IdaredShucks, it's not hard or different.
******************************
"We do not exaggerate when we state positively that the remodelled Springfield is the best and most suitable "all 'round" rifle".......Seymour Griffin, GRIFFIN & HOWE, Inc.
16 March 2005, 22:31
Gringo CazadorI'm the other guy that voted for 284
Billy,
High in the shoulder
(we band of bubbas)
19 March 2005, 05:31
IdaredThought this could maybe use a bump.
******************************
"We do not exaggerate when we state positively that the remodelled Springfield is the best and most suitable "all 'round" rifle".......Seymour Griffin, GRIFFIN & HOWE, Inc.