The Accurate Reloading Forums
M16/M4 Copper/Powder Fouling
29 September 2005, 18:41
brytstarM16/M4 Copper/Powder Fouling
My VFW Post has been sending "CARE" packages to our troops in Iraq/Afghanistan. One recently returned soldier stated they needed some to clean the fouling in their weapon. He said copper but my memories from VN suggests that primer and powder residue fouling were a big problem. Any suggestions on what would be the best product to send? It really pisses me off that the DOD is not on top of this but we want to help the troops. Need to hear your opinions.
In politics as in theology! "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, But the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2
29 September 2005, 19:21
BigNateThere are several cleaning agents that would work well if they'll let you send them. I still use CR10 for copper fouling, Sweets, ShootersChoice are a couple others. The foaming ones are supposed to be great (Wipe Out, Gunslick)but I havn't tried them.
If this guy says it's a copper fouling issue then take him at face value. It may be they are still being issued CLP ( what I had to use in the USN) which gets out powder residue fine but not much on copper. Little cans of Kroil would be cool to send if they made them. Nate
29 September 2005, 19:52
new_guyThe wipe-out works best, but with it's over-night wait time for copper removal, i don't see how anyone could reccomend it for a weapon that could have to be used immediately in combat.
Some good brushes and something with lots of ammonia would be my reccomendation... Sweet's fits the bill there.
A bore snake would be a nice addition too.
29 September 2005, 20:31
Rick 0311quote:
Originally posted by brytstar:
My VFW Post has been sending "CARE" packages to our troops in Iraq/Afghanistan. One recently returned soldier stated they needed some to clean the fouling in their weapon. He said copper but my memories from VN suggests that primer and powder residue fouling were a big problem. Any suggestions on what would be the best product to send? It really pisses me off that the DOD is not on top of this but we want to help the troops. Need to hear your opinions.
Thank you for taking care of our troops...you are to be commended!
Because I fought in a war myself, and because I have a son over there right now, I would suggest NOT sending cleaning products that need “instructions†or specific procedures to prevent damage to the rifle. This would include Sweets and any other ammonia based products.
Basic “dummy-proof†bore cleaners are the best things to send. I sent my son and his guys a case of regular old bore solvent in pocket sized unbreakable bottles and enough bore snakes for all his guys. They LOVE the bore snakes by the way.
I agree with the other poster on his views of wipe out in a combat environment...not real practical.
29 September 2005, 21:19
BigNateI guess I wasn't thinking about overnight soaking with the foam.
A small bottle of ammonia based cleaner and scrubbing with brush, patching it out should be to much of an issue though. Following it up with a little CLP to clean up the ammonia salts shouldn't need to much in the way of directions. When I was in the gulf the first go round it was common to dry everything back up after cleaning because the sand is so fine it gets into EVERYTHING! Especialy places you don't want it.
I would clean my rifle, dry it up, used dry graphite, and put a finger cot over the muzzle.
Being a sailor though I didn't have to go door to door looking for the creeps. I laid in wait for them to come to us. Definately a different ballgame!
The boresnakes are a great idea Rick. Nate
30 September 2005, 07:58
buckshotNot a solvent, but a lube I've grown to like is Mil-Comm's TW25B. The isopropyl alcohol carrier dries quickly and it doesn't attract dirt. Easy to use too.
30 September 2005, 22:01
Rick 0311quote:
Originally posted by BigNate:
I guess I wasn't thinking about overnight soaking with the foam.
A small bottle of ammonia based cleaner and scrubbing with brush, patching it out should be to much of an issue though. Following it up with a little CLP to clean up the ammonia salts shouldn't need to much in the way of directions. When I was in the gulf the first go round it was common to dry everything back up after cleaning because the sand is so fine it gets into EVERYTHING! Especialy places you don't want it.
I would clean my rifle, dry it up, used dry graphite, and put a finger cot over the muzzle.
Being a sailor though I didn't have to go door to door looking for the creeps. I laid in wait for them to come to us. Definately a different ballgame!
The boresnakes are a great idea Rick. Nate
Nate,
The military is supposedly issuing the Otis cleaning kits now...I know my son’s unit had them issued to them about 7 months ago. I had already sent him more cleaning gear (including a bunch of the Otis kits) than he and his guys good ever hope to use up. Mili-tech (sp?) also will send any unit in a combat zone all the free lube that they need...Great product and Great company that has really stepped up to the plate to take care of our troops.
30 September 2005, 22:32
Masteriflemanquote:
my memories from VN suggests that primer and powder residue fouling were a big problem.
You're right about 'Nam. The problem as they first issued the M16 was with the powder they used. It had a calcium compound used as a deterrent coating on the powder and after a few hundred (thousand?) rounds they had a free calcium build up in the gas tubes not allowing enough gas pressure to function the bolt and the rifle quit functioning as a semi/full-auto. That, combined with inadequate or no cleaning gear and non-chrome plated bores and chambers caused very bad interior rusting for all practical purposes, disabled the rifle. That was all taken care of after they issued cleaning equipment and began to chrome plate the bores and chambers.
"I ask, sir, what is the Militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them" - George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment during the Virginia convention to ratify the Constitution
01 October 2005, 07:53
Jay GorskiI've discovered after using Sweets for about 16yrs. is if you run 3 wet patches of Shooters Choice(MC#7), then a couple dozen wet bronze brush strokes, and a couple more wet patches, the copper is gone. Tested it with Sweets after the SC treatment, and no blue on the patch, whatsoever. So, I have to recommend Shooter's Choice, MC#7, followed by a wet patch of Kroil, then clean, dry patch, done. Jay
01 October 2005, 08:06
Rick 0311quote:
Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
I've discovered after using Sweets for about 16yrs. is if you run 3 wet patches of Shooters Choice(MC#7), then a couple dozen wet bronze brush strokes, and a couple more wet patches, the copper is gone. Tested it with Sweets after the SC treatment, and no blue on the patch, whatsoever. So, I have to recommend Shooter's Choice, MC#7, followed by a wet patch of Kroil, then clean, dry patch, done. Jay
Jay,
Shooters Choice also has ammonia in it...but its ammonium oleate rather than the ammonium hydroxide found in Sweets. It works on copper fouling, just slower. Kroil...as far as I am concerned is the nectar of the Gods! I use that stuff for just about everything except after shave lotion.
One of the best all around bore cleaners I have ever found is ATF...it ain’t the best at getting copper out, but for normal fouling its pretty hard to beat, and its universally available and cheap.
01 October 2005, 12:09
N E 450 No2Send him some Shooters Choice.
Tell him to use it only in the barrel. Use Breakfree everywhere else.
Send him some 223 brushes and some chamber brushes from Pro Shot.
http://www.proshotproducts.com
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