The Accurate Reloading Forums
What's the point of a Lazzeroni?
13 September 2007, 03:33
ForrestBWhat's the point of a Lazzeroni?
Can anybody tell me what the allure is of a Lazzeroni? Either the cartridges or the rifles?
I guess I just don't get it. The cartridges seem to be a good thing taken too far. The rifles seem way overpriced for what they are.
With all the short mags, RUMS, and now the Ruger 375 case to cheaply wildcat, I would guess the Lazzeroni cartridges would be as dead a dodo bird in a few years. What would be the point of a Lazzeroni rifle in a non-Lazzeroni chambering? What am I missing?
______________________________
"Truth is the daughter of time."
Francis Bacon
13 September 2007, 04:05
WestpacI think most calibers are pretty well represented now and there are damned near endless combinations one can make on most stock rifles, therefore, I don't think you are missing anything. Unless you just gotta have a "Lazzeroni".
_______________________________________________________________________________
This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life.
13 September 2007, 04:08
DavidCVelocity, velocity, velocity and the "allure"(?) of long range shooting/sniping?
Not my cup of tea either, and quite expensive but, to each his own....
Regards,
Dave
13 September 2007, 04:11
Bill SovernsThe point is money. If you fall for such things.
13 September 2007, 05:57
Aspen Hill Adventures*Cool* name?
~Ann
13 September 2007, 06:02
ireload2Just a more recent "Weatherby" clone....for those that show more than shoot.
13 September 2007, 06:35
Tailgunnerquote:
Originally posted by DavidC:
Velocity, velocity, velocity and the "allure"(?) of long range shooting/sniping?
Not my cup of tea either, and quite expensive but, to each his own....
Regards,
Dave
With his quest for more velocity, he built his guns/cartridges around light bullets. For long range work, heavier bullets with high BC are prefered IOW they arn't popular with the true long-rangers (the wannabe's seem to like them however)
13 September 2007, 08:14
Mike_DettorreI had one built on a rem 700 sa...was the short action 338...called the galaxy...its only money...very accurate...lots of fun to shoot
what's the point of anything other than say a 243, an 06, and a 375hh
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
13 September 2007, 08:39
dempseyI have zero interest in them. However, many ask the question of custom rifles most here prefer and use the same sort of reasoning against and get flamed!
I figure it's just different strokes for different folks.
______________________
Always remember you're
unique, just like everyone else.
13 September 2007, 09:19
Big Bore Boar HunterSometimes, people just want something different. $5k for a rifle bothers some, but not others. Seems like those that buy them are happy with their purchase, myself, I coud by three Weatherby accumarks for the same price.
Arguing velocity vs bullet weight is like arguing Catholiscism vs Protestantism. Or blonde vs Brunette, or Harley vs Jap bike, Deisgnated hitter vs no designated hitter. Sometimes things are just the way they are.
John
13 September 2007, 09:59
Hog KillerWhat is the point of Lazzeroni?
REALY STUPID NAMES FOR THE CARTRIDGES!But, that is just my take on them.
Keith
IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!!
------------------------------------
We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club
13 September 2007, 10:15
Michael Robinson.30 caliber, 180 grain bullets driven to 3,500 fps apparently just drive some people nuts.
Mike
Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
13 September 2007, 12:15
meteAnn, if they wanted a fancy name they should have picked something better as lazzerone in Neapolitan means a beggar, loafer or vagabond !!!
13 September 2007, 14:10
raybassI might get flamed but i think the same thing of the Ultra mags. Whats the point really?
Straight shootin to ya
13 September 2007, 17:37
ForrestBAt least with the Ultra Mags, it only costs about $800 to figure out you made a mistake.
I noticed on the Lazzeroni website that their velocity estimates are from 27" bbls. What's the point of a short action rifle that needs an extra 2-3" of barrel to get full use of the cartridge?
I'm as illogical as anybody about most things firearms related, but the Lazzeroni logic is beyond me. The extra 200-300 fps generated by their cartridges carries a steep price tag in terms of recoil and muzzle blast - but offers little in the way of increased performance at any realistic hunting range.
Granted, the rifles are not my particular style but I can't see where the money goes when I break out the parts and pieces. I'd just as soon have a tricked out Remington 700 for half the cost.
______________________________
"Truth is the daughter of time."
Francis Bacon
13 September 2007, 17:43
perryNot my cup of tea either BUT a guy I know has the Warbird??? and shooting a 150gr BT at a million gazillion fps and he did make a TX yote pop like a prarie dog. Of course he only has about 10 shots before his tube is cooked.
Perry
13 September 2007, 20:50
dellorocheez louise what a bunch of peckerwoods.
Lazzeroni made a bunch of money and decided to live the dream -
his dream. So he started his own gun company, designed his own line of cartridges, named them, and sold them. some people talk, others do. and mr. lazzeroni certainly
did.
as for walking in mr. weatherby's footsteps, there is nothing wrong withthat either.
IIRC, his short-and-fat designs predated the super short short ultra mag sensation.
I personally don't share mr. lazzaroni's taste in aesthetics or nomenclature, but until I have my own successful line of cartridges and until people start debating the relative merits of my widely-known, and popular products on the internet, I will simply respect him for what he has done.
13 September 2007, 21:21
Westpacquote:
Originally posted by delloro:
cheez louise what a bunch of peckerwoods.
Lazzeroni made a bunch of money and decided to live the dream - his dream. So he started his own gun company, designed his own line of cartridges, named them, and sold them. some people talk, others do. and mr. lazzeroni certainly did.
as for walking in mr. weatherby's footsteps, there is nothing wrong withthat either.
IIRC, his short-and-fat designs predated the super short short ultra mag sensation.
I personally don't share mr. lazzaroni's taste in aesthetics or nomenclature, but until I have my own successful line of cartridges and until people start debating the relative merits of my widely-known, and popular products on the internet, I will simply respect him for what he has done.
Peckerwoods! Nobody is trying to squash anyones dreams you knuckle head, This is a discussion about the sensibility of the cartridge, not his right to produce it.
_______________________________________________________________________________
This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life.
13 September 2007, 21:51
ForrestBThat's MR. Peckerwood to you.
I guess I'd better quit critiquing the centerfolds in Playboy magazine too.
______________________________
"Truth is the daughter of time."
Francis Bacon
13 September 2007, 22:01
Idaho Sharpshooterwhere does the word "EGO" fit in here?
My opinion, which is just and only that: they are cheesy looking, the best way to go on one is have a six-pack of barrels fitted so you can have two left by time you match his claimed velocities (if you can) in your load work, and they are waaaaaaay overpriced for the value received. Vivid imagination naming the cartridges as well.
He doesn't need to sell any, he has plenty of $$$, and he likes being in gun magazines...although not much of that is happening anymore.
Rich
DRSS
14 September 2007, 00:22
Charles_Helmquote:
Originally posted by ForrestB:
That's MR. Peckerwood to you.
quote:
Originally posted by SDH:
After the hundreth time someone said, "That's a thirty fourty KRAG?" when I showed them my sidelever rifle, I started calling it my 30-400.
Now they say, "COOL!"
Both just priceless!
14 September 2007, 08:38
nordrsetaI don't understand the allure of the 404-based big bottles but IIRC Lazzeroni was certainly there "the fustest with the mostest", beating the RUMs, WSMs, and SAUMs to market, for whatever that's worth. Now RUMs are a glut on the used gun rack, the WSMs were the last nail in the Winchester coffin, and the SAUMs are already on the way out...and still almost nobody is buying Lazzeronis. We are a fickle buying public.
14 September 2007, 08:38
ireload2It seems like a 40 inch barrel would be more practical than a Lazzeroni. You get the extra velocity at no cost in barrel life or cost of components......
14 September 2007, 09:20
James C Scottquote:
I can't see where the money goes when I break out the parts and pieces.
It goes the same place all of the other money spent on custom firearms goes. You know how that goes. It just goes. It supports the way of life that the builder can demand for his work. Personally, I'd rather have your 7mm.
14 September 2007, 09:37
Michael RobinsonI think it may be the what if I need to shoot 'em in the next county? phenomenon.
Of course, nobody needs to do that.
To paraphrase Jeff Cooper, anyone who shoots at an animal at that kind of range owes himself an explanation . . .
Mike
Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
14 September 2007, 18:25
perryI will say this as far as killing things in the next county goes. You guys dont have mile long high line right of ways and sizemic cuts running through your places. After watching a group of hogs feed at 1000yds the thought crosses every hunters mind...I think I could hit that.
perry
15 September 2007, 05:46
tiggertatequote:
Originally posted by ForrestB:
That's MR. Peckerwood to you.
I guess I'd better quit critiquing the centerfolds in Playboy magazine too.
You actually find deficiencies (damn, that word looks wrong but spell-check says otherwise)?
I did at 16, got less picky at 25, at 35 they all were perfection and now at 54....what was the question?
Oh yeah. I guess I admire an enterpreneur who can sell useless ideas to a market even more that one who has something of obvious benefit and advantage. Almost anyone can do the latter. But then, I used to sell 5,000 lb concrete mats to people with no cranes.
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
16 September 2007, 23:34
SaeedLazzeroni brought high velocity cartridges well before the general run of the mill lot did.
Also, his rifles do shoot at least as well as he claims, which is not the case about many other manufacturers.
I dealt with John himself years ago just as he was starting, and bought a number of his rifles in different calibers.
Every single one met or exceeded his specs, and he always delivered everything he promised to on time or before.
17 September 2007, 03:07
Big Bore Boar HunterIt reminds of one of my more famous drinkin truisms.... No matter how ugly the woman, their is a man that is willing to be hers. There will always be a buyer for a custom rifle, no matter the price, the question is, is there enough buyers to keep a company in business. Personally I like names like Patriot and Galaxy, Warbird I could do without.
John
17 September 2007, 04:27
WbyPowerquote:
With all the short mags, RUMS, and now the Ruger 375 case to cheaply wildcat, I would guess the Lazzeroni cartridges would be as dead a dodo bird in a few years. What would be the point of a Lazzeroni rifle in a non-Lazzeroni chambering? What am I missing?
Most of the Lazzeroni calibres are based on a case that is very similar in dimensions to the 416 Rigby. Thus his full length cartidges are similar to the 378 based Wby calibres and his version of the 300 WSM would be similar in case capacity to the 300 Wby.
17 September 2007, 04:33
shootawayJarret,Lazzeroni,ultra-light rifles,etc... all a waste of money.Glad I never took that bait.I would much prefer a custom shop Winchester.
20 September 2007, 00:45
Dr BWhy is every one down on the Lazzeroni his rifles are 50% the cost of a Echols and will do any thing a Echols will. I think it's just sour grapes about rifles you can't afford or don't want to spend the money.
DR B
20 September 2007, 19:39
cummins cowboyquote:
Originally posted by ForrestB:
The extra 200-300 fps generated by their cartridges carries a steep price tag in terms of recoil and muzzle blast - but offers little in the way of increased performance at any realistic hunting range.
well couldn't the same thing be said for all the other whizbang loud n boomers, like the ultras and even cases like the 300 mag??
in times when one needs a rifle, he tends to need it very badly.....PHC