The Accurate Reloading Forums
modifying a gun
16 March 2018, 22:37
john c.modifying a gun
i wanted to have a bbl shortened on a revolver, but the smith told me it is now (i gave up my FFL in the late 80s) against the law to modify a gun in any way. only the mfg. can do it. i asked him if he could shorten the bbl on a 870 to 18" in theory, and he about had a fit. just wondering. back in the day we used to do it as a matter of course. thanks
16 March 2018, 22:54
Mike_DettorreAssuming your are recounting the conversation verbatim, your "smith" is clueless.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
16 March 2018, 22:56
Gary MacDonaldFind a real knowledge able smith . On the Remington , it is cheaper to buy the 18" barrel .
16 March 2018, 22:57
Gary MacDonaldIf he will not modify a gun , what kind of business is he doing ? Curious .
17 March 2018, 00:34
john c.well by modify i don't mean fix or repair. i mean by altering it in any that it came from the factory. again, as in bbl length. and i even dialed it back a bit from what he really said.
17 March 2018, 00:49
ramrod340Could he concerned with the Obama era broadening of the definition of manufacturing?
As usual just my $.02
Paul K
17 March 2018, 00:50
Mike_DettorreWell he is wrong.
What he may be referring to is the issue that cropped up several years ago about there being a difference between type of FFL license to do repairs and enhancements versus the proper license to do "manufacturing" and what constitutes manufacturing.
But it is just an issue of having the correct license which many gunsmiths have.
To say only the manufacturer can cut a barrel to a specified length or perform modifications is flat wrong.
See this ruling by the ATF
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/d...miths-under/downloadThe critical distinction is who owns the firearm. For example:
A gunsmith cutting the bbl of your 870 is not performing manufacturing.
A gunsmith who as a regular course of business buys trashed 870s and cuts the barrels and turns them into home defense guns with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of those 870s is performing manufacturing.
I personally would not do business with someone so ill-informed.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
17 March 2018, 01:57
john c.cool. his reaction did seem a bit over the top.
17 March 2018, 02:11
craigsterWhen it comes rules/regulations/laws regarding firearms, I've run across FFL holders who are dumber than a box of rocks. Your smith belongs in the box.
17 March 2018, 02:46
Dulltool17quote:
Your smith belongs in the box.
Yes, clearly he cannot think outside of it.
FFL is needed, but what you seek isn't manufacturing.
Doug Wilhelmi
NRA Life Member
17 March 2018, 06:02
Wayne74Do I need a FFL to thread, chamber & install a new barrel on a rifle?
Thank you.
Wayne
Wayne Johnson
17 March 2018, 06:34
ted thornquote:
Originally posted by Wayne74:
Do I need a FFL to thread, chamber & install a new barrel on a rifle?
Thank you.
Wayne
Is it your own rifle?
________________________________________________
Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper
Proudly made in the USA
Acepting all forms of payment
17 March 2018, 07:05
gunmakeryour "smith" is spooked by the obama era ITAR interpretations. He should be. They are intentionally written so vague they can be pushed wherever any bureaucrat wants to.
He could just register with the state dept for $2500 a year. Then he would have to charge you more for his work to cover his expenses.
Lots of smiths flying under the radar charging less than those who aren't hiding from the radar.
17 March 2018, 07:09
craigsterquote:
Originally posted by Wayne74:
Do I need a FFL to thread, chamber & install a new barrel on a rifle?
Thank you.
Wayne
Not if you own the rifle and you DIY.
17 March 2018, 10:17
ramrod340Can you not work on someones firearm if they stay with it. So that it never leaves their possession?
It was 40 years ago but I remember with I had my ffl and was doing blueing the ATF told me I could blue a class 3 if the owner stayed while I did it. But I have slept since then.
As usual just my $.02
Paul K
17 March 2018, 20:08
Wayne74Yes it is my rifle. I have had several people ask me to do one for them but I don't want the hassle.
Thank you.
Wayne
Wayne Johnson
19 March 2018, 02:08
Big Gorilla Gunworksquote:
Originally posted by Wayne74:
Do I need a FFL to thread, chamber & install a new barrel on a rifle?
Thank you.
Wayne
You can certainly DIY...
An FFL is not needed if you have a "friend" with the machinery and skills.
If done by someone in the course of business- "with the principal objective of livelihood and profit"- then an FFL is required.
It really comes down to whether one is engaged in the real business of smithing/buying/selling.
Anyone can
occasionally work on a firearm they don't own without an FFL.
This is a very fine line that I personally would not try to walk. If you're working on your own guns then an FFL is definitely not needed, but if you start working on your friends guns then you're entering a gray area especially if they're paying you for your time. For most smiths making a profit is sort of a pipe dream and for many more it's not their sole source of income, so it would be hard to differentiate between them and the hobbyist working on his friends guns on the weekends.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Gorilla Gunworks:
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne74:
Do I need a FFL to thread, chamber & install a new barrel on a rifle?
Thank you.
Wayne
You can certainly DIY...
An FFL is not needed if you have a "friend" with the machinery and skills.
If done by someone in the course of business- "with the principal objective of livelihood and profit"- then an FFL is required.
It really comes down to whether one is engaged in the real business of smithing/buying/selling.
Anyone can
occasionally work on a firearm they don't own without an FFL.
21 March 2018, 01:25
AtkinsonIm pretty sure an individual can hack saw his rifle or shotgun barrel off and crown it without question as long as the length isn't under 18 inches....I hope..
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com