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Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 70 EXTRACTOR-REPLACEMENT

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17 December 2003, 18:41
J Wisner
Re: WINCHESTER MODEL 70 EXTRACTOR-REPLACEMENT
When I started making the USRA extractors in 1997. I already was making the extra long Pre 64 extractor at 4.90". So ran the two types of extractors thru at the same time on the machinery. They were done on manual vertical and hortz mills.
FYI, those were machined from 4140 anealed cold drawn 7/16" bar stock. I picked up like 600 pounds about 12 years ago just for the extractors. Finally ran out of that steel last year.

Now I machine the extractors from 1/2" thick, 4142 hot rolled sawn edge plate. On a CNC Bridgeport mill.
If there is enough demand for the extra long extractors. It would require about 7 or 8 lines of code to be changed in the CNC program. This is not bad considering what some of the programs take to change.
Worked today on the code for the Cocking Piece for the Pre 64 M70. We are working on about 200 of them plus about 100 for the 1964 thru 1982 M70's. Will be finishing these into complete firing pins after the first of the year.

Jim Wisner
18 December 2003, 05:51
triggerguard1
Quote:

What is "wrong" with the factory extractor?

George



The factory extractor is casted, or what's considered MIM'd(metal injected molded). Because of the nature of this process the extractor doesn't have any inherent spring properties like 4140 does, due to lack of grain structure. Because of this they have a tendency to break when they are being closed over the top of a cartridge, or when they are being pulled against a stuck case. Most times it is not the extracting of the case that breaks them though. Dropping a round into the chamber and closing the bolt over them causes the extractor to flex, as it should because it is a spring. When this happens, the spring doesn't spring and breakage is the result.
It is for these reasons that you see the top gun builders using the spring steel extractors in place of the casted ones, especially on dangerous game rifles.
18 December 2003, 07:13
GeorgeS
Thanks, Matt. As you might imagine, this would be of some concern to those of us who hunt DG with our 'Classic' M-70s.

Did all 'Classic' M-70s made since 1997 use the MIM'ed ejectors, or did USRAC switch to MIM lately? I ask because I have six left-hand M-70s in chamberings ranging from .270 Win. to .470 Capstick purchased over the last six years, and I would certainly want to replace the MIM'ed extractors on the ones chambered in .375H&H and up.

I see your extractors are drop-ins; is it an easy drop-in or will I need three hands?

Thanks,
George
18 December 2003, 08:14
triggerguard1
I believe that the MIM'd extractor has been made since 1991, but I may be mistaken about that. In any case, it has been the mainstay for the classic actions since their reappearance.

You'll need three fingers on one hand, left one if you're right handed, and one good working thumb from the other. All told, you'll have to set aside about 45 sec. out of your day to put the new one on. After you see how easy they go on, you can reduce that time from your daily planner to about 20 sec. It's about as drop-in as drop-in gets. No polishing, and final fitting, and no tensioning necessary either.
18 December 2003, 09:00
RSY
Quote:

Dropping a round into the chamber and closing the bolt over them causes the extractor to flex, as it should because it is a spring. When this happens, the spring doesn't spring and breakage is the result.



Wouldn't this be a moot point if this operation was performed properly by applying pressure behind the bevel of the extractor while closing the bolt, per Peter Paul's intent?

Not trying to be a wise-acre; just inquiring.

RSY
18 December 2003, 10:03
Jim in Idaho
Quote:

Wouldn't this be a moot point if this operation was performed properly by applying pressure behind the bevel of the extractor while closing the bolt, per Peter Paul's intent?





Ooh! Ooh! I know, Teacher. Pick me! Pick me!



Pressing behind the bevel works well on a properly spring tensioned extractor such as were put on the M98 and most all other CRF rifles built "the way they use'ta be". The whole weakness of the MIM part is that it is NOT properly spring tensioned. Oh, the metal has a little give so you can probably press against it to open up the claw somewhat, but I�m guessing that this will still induce stress related failure over the long haul.



Most Winchester factory extractors work okay because most people load the chamber from the magazine and this causes little or no stress on the claw.



Do I get a gold star for this answer?
18 December 2003, 10:10
Jim in Idaho
Quote:

You'll need three fingers on one hand, left one if you're right handed, and one good working thumb from the other. All told, you'll have to set aside about 45 sec. out of your day to put the new one on. After you see how easy they go on, you can reduce that time from your daily planner to about 20 sec. It's about as drop-in as drop-in gets. No polishing, and final fitting, and no tensioning necessary either.



Okay, for those of us that don't have three fingers on one hand but rather five thumbs on each hand - do you include a simple set of instruction with your extractors to show how to swap these out?

I've seen it done by a gunsmith and it does take all of about 10-15 seconds once you know how to do it, but I forgot what he did. So, the "once you know how to do it" part would elude this customer the first time out.

If you don't include instructions, may I suggest that that would be a worthwhile addition to slip in the box with the extractors? A few simple line drawings to go with the text instructions probably wouldn't hurt the comprehension impaired, either.
18 December 2003, 10:50
triggerguard1
If you pull the bolt out of the receiver and hold it in your hand with all five thumbs . Let the bolt handle face out to the right on a right-handed rifle with the bolt face sticking up in the air. Now, look straight down at the face of the bolt, and turn the extractor counterclockwise with your right thumb of your right hand 90 deg. Then, push the extractor forward, away from the bolt handle. The extractor will pop off of the end of the bolt. Continue to push it forward until it clears the extractor collar.
Getting it off is a little easier sometimes than getting it back on, but still no big trick.
First line the collar and extractor up in the same area on the bolt that you took it off. Grab the collar and squeeze it closed with your left hand full of thumbs. Slide the extractor onto the collar, and push it up until it stops at the bolt face. At this point you'll have to spring the extractor over the bolt face so that it will reside in it's original position after you rotated it around. Once the extractor is lined up with the radial groove that rotates around the bolt, just rotate the extractor back to it's original position, so that it is positioned over the top of the right bolt lug.
While the directions are a little long, the process is pretty quick, especially after you've seen it done once.

If anyone ever has any problems with this at all, they can feel free to call our toll-free number at 1-888-257-3006, and we'll answer any questions or concerns that they would have.
18 December 2003, 11:00
triggerguard1
Quote:

Quote:

Dropping a round into the chamber and closing the bolt over them causes the extractor to flex, as it should because it is a spring. When this happens, the spring doesn't spring and breakage is the result.



Wouldn't this be a moot point if this operation was performed properly by applying pressure behind the bevel of the extractor while closing the bolt, per Peter Paul's intent?

Not trying to be a wise-acre; just inquiring.

RSY




I don't think your average joe, or even above average joe is going to be thinking about that when he's got a buff or a lion coming his way in hot pursuit, or watching that trophy buck quickly getting out of rifle range. Instinct will be throwing the round in the chamber and closing her down.

Maybe I'm on my own here, but for less than $30.00, that's pretty damn cheap insurance. In fact, it's probably the cheapest part of your whole hunt.
18 December 2003, 11:02
RSY
Jim in ID: Gold star awarded.



Matt: Do you make one for LH M70s, or is it one part for both?
18 December 2003, 11:23
triggerguard1
Quote:

Jim in ID: Gold star awarded.

Matt: Do you make one for LH M70s, or is it one part for both?



Yep, sure do. They aren't interchangable. The radius configuration on the end of the extractor has to be changed for the left hand rifles, but we offer them in the following styles:

Standard Right and Left (30-06, 308, etc.)
Magnum Right and Left (300 Win. Mag, 300WSM, etc.)
Weatherby Right

All of these are available in 416 stainless steel, as well as 4140 steel. Finishes are available in steel in-the-white, polished & blued, matte blued, stainless in-the-white, and bead blasted stainless.
18 December 2003, 11:25
DavidReed
Matt,

Just thinking/wishing out loud here, but... Have you, rather would your company ever entertain making a proper spring steel extractor for the Ruger M77 RSM's? I plan on using mine in .416 Rigby to hunt buff and possibly lion in the near future and would be tickled if I could replace the Ruger factory part, which being Ruger is most likely MIM'd/cast. I'm sure other RSM owners would be interested in such a replacement part as well.
18 December 2003, 16:21
Rancher
Do the Williams and Weisner extractors also work with the Montana 1999 actions?
Thanks,
Pat
18 December 2003, 17:15
McCray
Matt, you said,

"Standard Right and Left (30-06, 308, etc.)
Magnum Right and Left (300 Win. Mag, 300WSM, etc.)
Weatherby Right"

Weatherby?

Joe.
18 December 2003, 17:17
Chuck Nelson
They are slightly different but Williams offers them as well.

Chuck
19 December 2003, 05:38
triggerguard1
Quote:

Do the Williams and Weisner extractors also work with the Montana 1999 actions?
Thanks,
Pat



There are some slight differences between the MRC extractors and Winchester's extractor, but our company makes them for both.
19 December 2003, 05:40
triggerguard1
Quote:

They are slightly different but Williams offers them as well.

Chuck



Guess I should have read the last post before I jumped the keyboard. Thanks Chuck.