The Accurate Reloading Forums
Western Mule Deer Rifle?
13 February 2010, 01:25
dwheelsWestern Mule Deer Rifle?
OK, Duane, Kobe, Toomany Tools, and ALL the proffesionaland amateur smiths who post here. If you were building yourself a rifle to bring to Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Montana to hunt only mule deer. what you you build or bring for yourselves? Details, Details, Details. DW
13 February 2010, 02:03
CAS IIHere are mine:
300 Wby Mag
270 Win
Not much I'd change about either one.
13 February 2010, 02:17
gwindrider1I believe you would be well served with any chambering between .25-06, and the .300's.
13 February 2010, 03:44
Mike_DettorreLet's see
260 rem
6.5x55
270 Win
270WSM
7mm-08
284 win
7x57
280 Rem
7mm WSm
308 win
30-06
300 WSM
300 Win
Actions
Remington
Winchetser
Mauser
Ruger
Oh wait...I know...a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets with a 3x9 power scope
Hey that would be a pretty good all around gun
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
13 February 2010, 03:58
taylorce1Not a gunsmith, but hunt mule deer quite often. If I were to build the rifle I'd keep it light around 7-7.5 lbs with scope, and I'd be a very happy deer hunter. Pick any cartridge from .243 Win up to .30-06.
There are good choices out there in production rifles as well. For me I'd like either a .270 Win M70 FWT or Ruger Compact in .260 or 7mm-08 and run bullets weighing between 120-140 grain. One day I will own the M70 FWT in .270 Win.
13 February 2010, 04:10
Chuck NelsonMy Mule Deer rifle is a .280 AI based around a LH SS Model 70 action. The body on the deer pictured is just about as big as they get. But a well placed bullet from just about anything will kill a Mule Deer.
13 February 2010, 04:15
Fish30114Not a smith by a mile either, but I've shot a lot of mule deer out west, mostly when I was little, I'd use the same caliber again without hesitation.
This one of my 270 Winchesters would do! Sako 85,loves Norma brass with 59 gr. 4831-sc under 130 Grain TSX's. Rifle is bone stock, Optilok bases and rings, Swarovski 4x12x50 with TDS reticle.
Or this one.....
Custom Sauer 202, Serengeti (now Kilimanjaro) rifleworks custom stock, matte blued, Talley's and also Swaro 4x12x50, standard plex reticle. Set up with Nosler brass, 140 Accubonds and a couple of different powders it does great. I love the geometry of this stock.
13 February 2010, 06:35
bartsche
Mod. 98, 7mmX57mm scout mounted 1 1/2 or 2 power scope on a 19" barrel. 140 to 150 grain cup and core or maybe a mod. 200 Stevens in 250-3000, 3 to 9 scope and 120 grain bullet. So many rifles so little time.
roger
Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
13 February 2010, 20:41
Westpacquote:
Originally posted by dwheels:
If you were building yourself a rifle to bring to Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Montana to hunt only mule deer. what you you build or bring for yourselves? Details, Details, Details. DW
If I were going to Utah to hunt Big Muley's I would want something that I wasn't afraid to scratch or get wet. Something that would not be affected temperature or environmental conditions. Something reliable, and something you could drive into any nearby town and purchase ammo for.
_______________________________________________________________________________
This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life.
13 February 2010, 21:03
BoxheadMy $300 pawn shop 270 Win M700 ADL that I bedded into its impressed checkered stock fitted with a 2.5x10X Leupold loaded with 130 gr Partitions (300 came with the rifle along with the same in Win primed brass) has done just fine. It even dropped a nice bull elk...
13 February 2010, 23:09
Westpacquote:
Originally posted by Boxhead:
My $300 pawn shop 270 Win M700 ADL that I bedded into its impressed checkered stock fitted with a 2.5x10X Leupold loaded with 130 gr Partitions (300 came with the rifle along with the same in Win primed brass) has done just fine. It even dropped a nice bull elk...
That's Blasphemy!
_______________________________________________________________________________
This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life.
14 February 2010, 06:51
dwheelsLight or heavy? I also shoot a 270, 130 grain TSX with a rather heavy #5 contour Shillin barrel. I'm to old to really hike the rough stuff and am content to hunt the sage brush around places like Strawberry, Fish Lake, Etc. So Mine is the equivalent to an eastern beanfield rifle. I don't carry it far, It shoots real straight, and compared to the beautiful classic styles above, its waay out of style with a rollover cheek piece and closed grip. It does have a nice piece of wood on it though. If I could post pics I would so you classic guys could make fun of it. Thank for everyones input. DW
14 February 2010, 07:23
craigsterA nice used, but not abused pre '64 M70 Winchester in 30 Gov't. '06 or 270 Winchester, with a 6x or maybe a 3x9 Leupold. Can't get much more classic "Western" than that.
Mine's a 30 Gov't. '06.
14 February 2010, 07:49
bracerI still have the Winchester Mdl 70 270 that I got new back in 1952. It shows some dings but it got them shooting pronghorn, mule deer, elk,and other unwonted critters. I have shot mule deer with other caliber rifle cartridges but none of them dident kill deer any deader then the 130 Gr handloaded bullet out of the 270.
14 February 2010, 08:02
tin canWhat I've seen and used in Montana:
Me:
.308
7x57
Other clients:
.30-06
.25-06
.270
.243
.300 Wby
.300 Win
The outfitters:
.243
.22-250
.223
I've noted a fair amount of Rugers out there, locally.
As above, I prefer to take a rifle that I won't be afraid to use/drop/drag. If I take game with it, it'll start to look better to me.
I use a bipod when applicable, although most of the shots I've taken have been off-hand kneeling. I won't hunt without a sling on the rifle.
The 7x57 has a 2-7X Leupold on it, and it works just fine; the .308 has a 3x9 Leupold. I don't believe you need a lotta high-end glass out there, the moderate power scopes I use more than suffice; in fact I can think of two shots that I could not have made using higher power than I had.
14 February 2010, 08:24
HerrMesserWhat I have used in Wyoming.
6mm rem
6.5/284
270 roy
30-06
300 wm
I loaned my 257 bob to my son or I would have used it too.
Rad
NRA Benefactor Member
14 February 2010, 08:27
mrfuddI was thinking pre-64 Model 70 in 264 WinMag, but a pre-64 Featherweight in .270 would be sweet too.
14 February 2010, 11:58
JBrownNo one mentioned the 7mm RM? I can't imagine a better mule deer cartridge.
Action: Mauser(what else?)
Stock: Walnut(Life's too short to hunt with an ugly gun)
Scope: For me 4x, for most everyone else 2.5-8x
Jason
"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________
Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.
Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.
-Jason Brown
14 February 2010, 13:02
vapodog.270 Winchester......nuff said!
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
14 February 2010, 20:03
Steve LefforgeI have to agree with JBrown and go with the 7mm Rem Mag. Up here in Wyoming you may get a 300 yard plus shot in howling wind. I have hunted with the 7mm Rem Mag for over 33 years and has never left me wishing I had a different caliber.
However, one should shoot the caliber you feel the most comfortable with and shoot the best.
7mm Rm Mag
WW cases
66 grains IMR-7828
CCI-250 primers
175 grain Nosler Partitions
3/8" 3 shotgroup @ 100 yards
Muzzle Velocity 15' with Oehler 35 3060' fps
Steve
16 February 2010, 03:56
Alberta Canuckquote:
Originally posted by mrfudd:
I was thinking pre-64 Model 70 in 264 WinMag, but a pre-64 Featherweight in .270 would be sweet too.
Pretty much any modern light-medium bore will work in most instances. I've used many different ones, but mainly
a pre-'64 M70 Westerner (.264 Mag),
a Pre-'64 M70 FW in .270,
an FN Mauser in .280 Remington,
and another Pre-'64 M70 FW in .30-06.
And, oh yeh, a Pre-War M70 Win in .300 Wby.
Of all of them available, including the above 5, my favourite is the Pre-'64 M70 FW in .270 Win.
Like VapoDog said: ".270....'nuff said."
16 February 2010, 11:59
1 Shot Hunterquote:
Originally posted by Steve Lefforge:
I have to agree with JBrown and go with the 7mm Rem Mag. Up here in Wyoming you may get a 300 yard plus shot in howling wind. I have hunted with the 7mm Rem Mag for over 33 years and has never left me wishing I had a different caliber.
However, one should shoot the caliber you feel the most comfortable with and shoot the best.
7mm Rm Mag
WW cases
66 grains IMR-7828
CCI-250 primers
175 grain Nosler Partitions
3/8" 3 shotgroup @ 100 yards
Muzzle Velocity 15' with Oehler 35 3060' fps
Steve
Hafta pretty much second the 7 with 175's... Enough velocity and weight to (edit: better) buck the western winds, with a BC (Sierra Game Kings) and SD that really deliver at "longer" ranges.
16 February 2010, 22:51
Duane Wiebe
Here is my 270 that I've hunted with since 1986. Second scope and second barrel. Yeah, the style smacks of the 80's, and I've given thoughts to restocking, but it's an old friend now and somehow a new stock would be "unfaithful". I honestly lost track the numbers I've collected with this rifle.
The engraving is by the late Guiseppi Forte. He had passed on by the time I needed a new barrel., but Bob Swartley graciously matched up the "Forte style". All this history.....
17 February 2010, 01:08
Dago Redthat engraving is gorgeous! and I was going to compliment the stock, I like the drop in the comb. and such great figure. I guess when you can do the work yourself you don't have to worry as much about huntin in hard. how about some closeups of the engraving?
Red
17 February 2010, 01:49
465H&Hquote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Here is my 270 that I've hunted with since 1986. Second scope and second barrel. Yeah, the style smacks of the 80's, and I've given thoughts to restocking, but it's an old friend now and somehow a new stock would be "unfaithful". I honestly lost track the numbers I've collected with this rifle.
The engraving is by the late Guiseppi Forte. He had passed on by the time I needed a new barrel., but Bob Swartley graciously matched up the "Forte style". All this history.....
That 80's or 50's, 600's or 70's style is classic and one that I for one prefer.
The 270 Win can be matched by several calibers in the same power range but it can't be beaten as a mule deer rifle.
Here is a pic of my Ruger tang safety 270 restocked and the metal reworked by the great Al Biesen.
465H&H
17 February 2010, 02:44
Paul BI kind go along with the .270 for Mule Deer but I'm also thinking a stiff loaded .280 Remington might be just a tad better if one prefers heavier bullets. My .280 is extremely accurate but is just too darn heavy for this old fart to be packing in serious Mule Deer country these days. I do have a very light weight .270 that's perfect though. I can put the first three shots under a nickel before the barrel get too hot to do tight groups and the next two will stay under a quarter most of the time. The only bad thing is the stock is so ugly it would abort a lady crocodile but it sure does shoot.
Paul B.
17 February 2010, 04:03
Duane WiebeI have nothing against the 280, but customers report they just can't get dreamed of velocities. Haven't had a call for a 280 in many years.
17 February 2010, 04:32
CAS IICome on Duane, what are you talking about? Do you really mean to tell me that the 280 isn't magic? I read it on the net, so it has to be true!
17 February 2010, 05:06
bartschequote:
Originally posted by CAS II:
Come on Duane, what are you talking about? Do you really mean to tell me that the 280 isn't magic? I read it on the net, so it has to be true!
Golly ! I hate to think I was just plain silly to have hunted and killed LARGE Buck mule deer(300 lbs+) with a puny 6.5 Carcano.I was a hunter stalker back than.
roger
Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
17 February 2010, 05:16
Duane WiebeReally makes you wonder...I shot a nice Axis with a 6.5 x 55 at (lazered) 275 yds. 120 gr bullet this last Dec. Went thru..he went about 25 feet before "crashing".
Yet I saw an antelope in WY take four 243 100 gr. shots and went about 2 miles. Damn pitiful! I personally have no use for the 6MM's but..there is antecdotal proof they are a great killer...go figure!
17 February 2010, 05:28
Duane WiebeHad a PM...What's it weigh? 8 lbs 8 oz empty. a little bit muzzle heavy. "What? way too much"
"I you want to carry around a couple pounds less...skip dessert"
No...I really do not like the super light weight rifle...they just don't settle down after a stiff climb when you scare up a buck.
Within reason, balance is more important than weight.
I once built a 5 1/2 lb 250/3000....felt like a mattel toy..or Red Ryder BB gun..whippy!
17 February 2010, 05:34
Duane Wiebequote:
Originally posted by Dago Red:
that engraving is gorgeous! and I was going to compliment the stock, I like the drop in the comb. and such great figure. I guess when you can do the work yourself you don't have to worry as much about huntin in hard. how about some closeups of the engraving?
I'll do that...Guiseppi was a very special person and special friend. His wife (Buttons), my wife Janice, Guiseppi (Joe) and I had many wonderful outdoor experiences....there I go...getting sentimental and sloppy!!
Red
17 February 2010, 06:15
dwheelsMy 270 weighs a little over 9 pounds with a full magazine, sling and scope. I can't shoot a rifle that is light in front. Even off a good rest, it seems like they are impossible to hold still.
17 February 2010, 06:40
FMC.270 Win is
the ideal deer caliber.
I'm with you Duane, I don't understand the need for a light rifle, or a "shorter" action to shave some weight. I'm a fat ass anyway. Shit by the time you add up the 10# of gear in your pack for mule deer (hell the 30#+ Alaska packs) a few oz don't mean shit.
But your dead on about the benefits steadying a heavy rifle. The high desert mule deer I've shot in ol' Mexico were between 220 - 310 yds. With two back to back at the 310 yds.....lovely words when your guide says "
otro mas" ?sp. Here's my baby, serial #109.
There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others.
17 February 2010, 20:51
CAS IIFMC, That is a gorgeous rifle.
As far as weight, typically I am not obsessed with getting the lightest weight possible just as I am not looking to carry an extra dumb bell just for the hell of it. I am obsessed with ensuring that the rifle balances well with just a little forward bias.
That said, just because a rifle is light doesn't preclude it from balancing and pointing well. I once built a 6lb rifle that had a little bit of heft out front that pointed incredibly well. On day 4 of a backpack hunt I was very happy to be carrying that rifle as opposed to by buddy's 9 pound 7 STW.
Given the choice, I'd take a light rifle that balances well over a heavy rifle that balances well. I'd also take a heavy rifle that balances well over a light rifle that is butt heavy.
18 February 2010, 05:40
MHC_TXDuane,
That is pretty fancey.......could you post one more picture of the trap door butt plate?
Thanks
18 February 2010, 07:00
Duane WiebeMike: Truth is...I never bothered to learn how to post photos..I contract out all this or ask friends to do so. This is a Biesen trap door model...I made a cavity to match the outline of the trap..maybe 3" deep..holds lots of stuff!...condoms, sandwiches...etc...
18 February 2010, 07:15
CAS IIDare I ask why you'd want a condom while out hunting with the guys? Sounds Brokeback Mountain-ish to me.
18 February 2010, 19:30
Duane WiebeThrew that in for FB's benefit...course..you know the biggest lie in Wyoming? "Honey...I was only helping that sheep over the fence"
