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Stock Design Question

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22 December 2004, 19:16
35nut
Stock Design Question
Maybe there is no accurate answer to this question but when you build a stock what is the measurement from the front of the trigger to the front of the grip at the bottom. I measured a couple Remingtons, Winchesters and Weatherbys and they all measure roughly 3 ��. Is this kind of a standard?
22 December 2004, 19:43
GrandView
Quote:

Originally posted by 35nut....

Maybe there is no accurate answer to this question but when you build a stock what is the measurement from the front of the trigger to the front of the grip at the bottom. I measured a couple Remingtons, Winchesters and Weatherbys and they all measure roughly 3 ��. Is this kind of a standard?





It does depend a bit upon how long and wide the shooters hand is. And further if the shooter prefers a more "open" than usual grip. I don't have any commercial stocks to measure, but it could be that is a somewhat "standard" distance for off-the-shelf stocks.



Wesbrook's book defines the "diagonal" measurement from center of trigger to leading edge of grip cap as typically being between 3-1/4" and 4-1/2". Linden's shaping booklet has examples of the diagonal measurement from 3-1/4" to 4".



My guns measure 3-1/2" there.



GV
22 December 2004, 21:24
35nut
GrandView Thanks for the reply. The thing I did not know was the open grip part. My reason for the question was I just took out my 25-300 wsm that I got from Montana Rifle. I had Serengeti put a stock on it. They used the Merlin geometry on it and I must say first of all it is a beautiful stock. But it is the most uncomfortable stock I have ever put to my shoulder. First with this open grip I can barley hold the rifle. Every manufacture rifle is comfortable in the grip to me. This one measures 3 �� in the grip. Second I put a 40-mm scope on it in the lowest rings it would fit in and I have to grind my cheek in the stock to see through the scope. This can probably be fixed with higher rings. There is no way even if I wanted to use open sights I could. Next I was also test driving 378 Weatherby with some new loads and this Montana seamed to belt me just about as good as the 378. Put it this way, when I was out of cartridges for the Montana I was glad to put it away. I think Most of the problem was the cheek weld on the comb. But she also smacked the shoulder and beat the shit out of my finger just behind the trigger guard. In fact that finger is nicely bruised and very sore. This is probably due to the fact that I could not hold on to the rifle in the grip. I have had the rifle for several months now and the first day I got it I did not like the comfort of the stock. I have let about 20 people handle the gun and all but one commented about the grip feeling different. The one that liked it has a huge hand though. One good note is that with just using quick load and picking a powder she shot well under moa. This is also true for the 6.5-270 wsm that they made for me. This one I just hogged out a Winchester Rubbermaid slapped it in, tightened it up and fed her powder and bullets. Both rifles are very accurate. And the 6.5 doe's not kick near as hard. And I do not have small hands. Now if my fingers were �� longer it would be nice.
22 December 2004, 23:26
GrandView
35nut...

Your description is what I presume would be my experience also with the Merlin geometry. I have not shot that stock, but have experimented with the premise on a "try-stock".

Since you mentioned having measured Weatherby stocks, and have shot the 378, I presume that was in a Weatherby stock. The Weatherby stock would have a "cheek-to-shoulder" arrangement that more closely coincides with the human anatomy.......the shoulder lower than the cheek. The geometry on the Merlin is the opposite.....shoulder higher than cheek. Beyond "grinding" your cheek into the comb, you are also required to move your cheek lower than the shoulder to even contact the comb. This doesn't seem to be a big deal for some people, but it would be for me, and obviously is for you.

The "diagonal" measurement is actually derived from how the leading edge of the grip cap is positioned in relation to the bore line. The 3-1/4" measurement you took from the Weatherby came from a grip cap that is considerably lower from the bore line than that of the Merlin. What the lower grip cap position does is give a more closed crip than the Merlin. It gives the lower fingers of your hand a "purchase" to hold the butt tightly against your shoulder. It also changes the way your hand is gripping the wrist of the stock........you're "holding" a more vertical surface against your shoulder, rather than "squeezing" a "tube" and hanging on!

The lower grip cap, and a subsequently "closed" grip also puts your fingers in a lower position in relation to the rear of the trigger guard. You aren't gettting your finger hammered by the rear of the trigger guard on the closed grip because the stock can't get away from your grip under recoil.

If I were to make a habit out of shooting guns with 378 type recoil, I would have a grip as described above, and a monte carlo comb.

GV
23 December 2004, 00:46
jeffeosso
35nut,

i built a 257xwsm in 2000... I have to tell you, if it kicks AT ALL , then the geometery must really have problems.



what's the LOP on it, as compared to your 378?



mine is, btw, in a 1903 "national ord" which explains my hatred for national ord receviers...



So, if you pick up the stock (not grind/press in), and just look through the scope, which way is it off? As you described, it should be pointing to the LEFT, which means one of two things... and the last one is easier, though uglier, to fix



1: the stock does not have enough castoff FOR YOU (it could have cant, but i doubt it)

2: the point of cheek weld is too thick, which will require you to take a rasp and file, after marking the location and replacing the scope mounts, and DISK that out...



jeffe



jeffe
23 December 2004, 05:44
<SDH>
It really is too bad that naive folks have to find out this way. This is exactly why my post about the stock design of the Serengeti Zephyr was so strong and to the point.

35nut, I hope Rod Serengeti sees this and responds to it appropriately. Higher scope rings will help with the cheek recoil, but the problem is poor stock design and that will only be fixed with a new stock, with the proper amount of drop at the heel.

Sorry you had to learn this way.