I just got Brownell's money pit book #58. Since I may need to rebarrel my M1917 Enfield, I need some information. Are the Douglas and Shilen barrel blanks ordered from Brownell's as good as getting a blank from Douglas or Shilen direct?

Thanks
ZM

Do you think they are shipping culls to one of their biggest accounts?

They are the same.

I believe both Douglas and Shilen sell several different grades of barrels. So check what it is Brownells is offering. They are usually good at labelling their merchandise correctly, though.

Other than that, I don't think the barrels Brownells sell are in any way sub-standard. They probably have a limited number of contour/caliber/twist rate options compared to what you could get directly from the manufacturer, but you may be able to reduce delivery time significantly by ordering from Brownells...

- mike

My experiece with Shilen vs. Brownell's/Shilen is limited but the 4 or 5 I've bought direct from Shilen had much more refined exteriors than the one from Brownell's. It was rough cut right off the lathe.

Shilen did at one time try to sell the Longhorn grade barrel which I think was the standard Match grade also with lesser finish. It didn't last though. Now shilen has only two grades: Match and Select match.

They gotta shave some cost somwwhere and think it's just in the cosmetics.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
Do you think they are shipping culls to one of their biggest accounts?

I don't know. That's why I asked the question.

I'd like to get a decent blank, stash it in the safe and rebarrel when/if I need to. I really don't want to go on the cheep and get a Shaw or A&B.

Thanks
ZM

I doubt Shilen would ship a cull. It's still their reputaion at stake no matter where you bought it.

I bought a Shilen through Brownells. It has just been finished up being fitted to my action, so I haven't shot it yet, and won't for a while. Nothing is amiss at this juncture in time, but the proof is in the pudding and thats a few months away.

Pay attention to grades though don't compare appples to oranges, and Brownells doesn't sell all of Shilens barrels. The price isn't much of a delta between them, bonus from Brownells is lead time, I went that route cause with shipping time it was 3-4 days and I didn't want to wait.

My project is coming along nicely, my friend with a FFL ordered ny barrels which saved about 10%, and believe this or not the fitting, lapping, and trueing of the action barrel came in under what was quoted, so my net is about $150 plus in savings. It is due at my smiths next week, and I will get up the week following and inspect this then.

I’ve bought several .30 cal #4 contour Shilen barrels from Brownell’s are they were beautifully finished inside and out. I’ve also bought barrels directly from Shilen and they didn’t look any different. I’ve also bought wo select match Shilen’s from Brownells and they were fine also.

I should've picked up the calipers and measured. I'll give myself a boot to the head later.

The OD of the M1917 barrel, at the point where it meets the reciever is 1.310". According to the Brownell's catalog the OD of the Shilen barrel at the same point is 1.250". This would make for a funny looking gun. Looks like this won't be an option.

I guess I'll have to come up with a "Plan B"

ZM

I don't think it would look funny at all. Most rifles have a step down from the action to the barrel anyway. I think It'll work.

Rojelio

Zeke

If you order direct from Shilen you will not get a gunsmith discount unless you order a minimum of three barrels. The discount still does not equal Brownells untill you order five.


Tiggertate

Not to be nit picking but Shilen's second rate barrels were called Lonestar. I encountered a few of those barrels that had crooked bores.


Rojelio

If you use a 1.250" shank barrel on an Enfield action it will definately look funny but more important there will be almost no shoulder to butt up to the receiver. That is why Douglas offers a 1.310" barrel shank.

If I order direct from Brownell's, I get a discount because I have an 03 FFL. But I'm not going to order a barrel that is .060" undersized.

I am unable to find a reference to the 1.130" shanked barrel on the Douglas website. I suppose I can give them a call and see what they have for the Enfield.

I had trouble getting the gun to shoot light bullets. Shoots 180's and 200's just fine. I suspect a long throat, but I haven't checked that out. Hence the reason I am looking into a rebarrel and/or rechamber.

ZM

After having sold several thousand Shilen barrels, I can tell you for sure they come off the line with all the rest. In the SS they have match grade and select match grade only. In chromoly they have match grade only. The Lonestar grade was phased out several years ago.Butch

FWIW, I have bought a few Shelen stainless barrels from Brownells and found them to be first rate and very accurate < 1 MOA. They also do a good job lapping them because I have never had a fouling problem.

I have no shooting experience with the brownells versions, but I have seen them at the gunsmiths shop. I will agree that the cost cut is on the contouring/final finishing. They are tool marked and in need of final turning and polishing or blasting. As to internal grade,..I would bet on the same as factory ordering.

The Shilen barrels Brownells sells are the same price as the ones you buy direct from Shilen, so I’m not sure why anyone thinks they are different.

Since this topic sort of changed directions I have a question. I also order from Brownells and get there business discout. Is this the cheapest source for shilen barrels if I only need one?

Snowwolfe, for Shilen barrels, check out The Barrel Man. They used to sell all Shilen barrels in all contours, but I think they have started concentrating on the most popular choices (BR oriented). Maybe the one you want is still available at their excellent prices.

- mike

Shilen does not offer the "select match" grade barrel in all contours. For years the lightest contour, available in SM, was 5.5.

No experience with Shilen barrels, except for a friend who bought one through Brownells for a custom 06 about 5 years ago. It would never shoot, and finally a borescope study revealed the interior was really pretty sadly finished. With their BR reputation, this was likely an anomaly.

As to Douglas barrels you asked about, I have always had wonderful luck with them and have used scores of them over the years. I have never had one which didn't exhibit very good accuracy. The best place I know to buy them is from IT&D custom guns in the Cleveland area. They advertise every issue in the Shotgun News gunsmith services section. They also do excellent barrel work.

The Barrelman is my former company. Jerry Stiller, the receiver mfg., now owns it. He will dropship anything that Shilen has available. Some things have changed so that he is able to do this again. You can get select match from a #2 up now. If you see something that is not right with a Shilen a phone call will get you the help that you need. Butch

The choice between Shilen and Douglas from Brownesll's, for me at least, is that the Douglas barrels are very roughly turned outside and the Shilen's have been ground to about a 320 grit finish. That alone is enough for me to pay the extra for the Shilen.

I don't understand the discrepancy on the exterior finish. Mine was rough turned, period. I'm still sanding the waves out of it. It was CM. My others from Shilen were stainless and you could wipe the writing off, install them and ship; they were that nice.

Thanks for the correction, Craftsman. Longhorn just didn't look right but a brain fart is a brain fart....

Craftsman,

I just installed a Douglas #3 contour barrel on a 1917 enfield action and it most definitely does not look any funnier than all the factory Winchesters, Interarms mausers, FN mausers,and many other factory guns in my safe.

There is a .070" step on the Enfield, the Winchesters in my safe have a .100 step, and the Interarms mausers and FNs have a .120 step.

Now maybe I'm missing your logic here, so, could you explain to me how the Enfield would look funnier.

As far as not enough shoulder. How much shoulder do you need. Major thread diameter for a Enfield is 1.125 and minor is 1.085. I don't see the problem here. I know of several Enfields in service with this same setup and no problems have occured after years of use.

Have a good day, Rojelio

Tiggertate,

Addressing exterior finish, Douglas have always been pretty rough and thats directly from Douglas. I like Douglas barrels a lot and use them as a judgement point in the back of my brain when sourcing anything more spendy. But they have always needed finishing, and I subconciously add finishing costs when I price Douglas barrls.

I was just talking about the difference in Shilen barrels I have bought. I never bought a Douglas. No particular reason for that.

My experience was like Art's, and no you will not always get help with a phone call. Mine was a 5.5 in 7mm and it appeared the rifling had a 1" dead spot in it 5" from the muzzle. Shilen did NOTHING for me even after I pulled it and sent it back to them. Said I must have messed it up. I will never buy another Shilen. Had great luck with Douglas and Lilja, so I will never look back.

Why wouldn't they sell culls to their largest customer, doesn't Remington do that to Walmart?

quote:

Douglas and Lilja

Dan Lilja makes really quality barrels, never had a complaint one about his barrels, good stuff there.

Walmart requires it, they know what they are getting, all about price point, not maintaining a proffessional image throughout an industry.

Brownells has canned more than one vendor over the years cause they weren't happy with the goods.

The exterior of Lothar Walther barrels is so mirror smooth, I have to rough it up where I want the chuck jaws to grip it.

FWIW, I go by Douglas and hang out on occasion and I'm pretty good friends with the workers and management. They get an order in for X barrels and they know to produce Y to allow for flaws. Over the years the Y-X=reject number has gotten smaller and now something over 90% of their production is "Air Gauge" grade. If you order a premium barrel and they don't have it laying on a shelf but there's an Air Gauge laying there, you get the higher grade, they just don't have the time to wait around for a merely premium barrel to show up.

I'm sure Shilen or who ever is similar in that they produce the best barrels they can and with the state of metal voodoo those are some pretty good barrels. What really determines a good shooter is usually the skill of the fellow who takes a blank and carves away everything that doesn't look like a rifle barrel.

The best gunsmith in the country can't make a bad barrel shoot!

You are so right, Eddie. Butch

Just an idle thought: Do you reckon that Brownells actually stocks the barrels of do they just pass along the orders to Douglas???
Sort of a zero inventory thing.

I have had only experience with Douglas barrels and have always been very pleased with them. I doubt they would ship culls to anyone.

THe Shilen I just ordered was a stock item, and I am pretty certain the douglas barrels are the same. That said depending on your choice of caliber/contour is possible its a backorder item. A phone call with your part number will confirm that it's a stock item.

I got my Shilen, in less than a week, and that was with ground shipping.

"The OD of the M1917 barrel, at the point where it meets the reciever is 1.310". According to the Brownell's catalog the OD of the Shilen barrel at the same point is 1.250"."

Naah, it looks fine. On a sporter it is not an issue. On a military configuration rifle it is covered by the handguard. I got a couple of Numrich's M-1917 barrels about 6-months ago. They were only 1.25 at the shoulder. The project worked out great, I was rebarreling a military configuration rifle. A tip here, the muzzle end might be too thin. If so cut the spline slot too shallow, that will make the sight fit nice and tight.

Recently I had a Shilen SS match grade fitted to my rifle and contrary to previous barrels, this one metal fouled and wouldn't group either, a phone call to Doug Shilen was all it took. He said send me the rifle and we will correct the problem. Correct the problem, they did, it now shoots well and cleans up easily.
That Shilen won't take care of a problem, hasn't been my experience.
Stepchild

quote:

Originally posted by iwzbeeman:
Just an idle thought: Do you reckon that Brownells actually stocks the barrels of do they just pass along the orders to Douglas???
Sort of a zero inventory thing.

I think Brownell's stocks the barrels and they periodically replenish that stock. They get the price cut for a large order that way.