The Accurate Reloading Forums
Scope Magnification?
04 June 2003, 12:29
Ben_WazzuScope Magnification?
Hello All:
I was looking for recommendations on the magnification range for a Ruger M77VT MkII in .223 Rem., which I plan on mostly using to target shoot at ranges from 100 to 350 yards (the maximum effective range of a 223?). My current thought is a 6.5x20 with a 50mm front objective made by a reputable company. However, I read that mirage effects and exit pupil make high magnifications difficult to use. Should I consider a 4.5x14 or will the 6.5x20 be okay?
Thanks,
Ben
For ranges out to 300-350 yards the 6.5 X 20 should be fine. If the mirage is too heavy, just crank the power down until it clears. If it's too heavy for 6.5X there's probably no useful magnification that will clear it up. For target shooting (which implies full daylight) the 50mm bell is as necesary as an afterburner on a turtle. If you need more field of view for varmint spotting, do it at 6.5X then crank it up after you locate the vermin.
[ 06-04-2003, 05:17: Message edited by: Fjold ]04 June 2003, 14:25
Orion 1The maximum effective range for target shooting with a 223 Remington is 600 yards with bullets up to 80 grains and up to 1000 yards with 90 grain VLD bullets.
All with aperture sights, not scopes.
Go here, find an NRA highpower rifle match that is shot at the full distance (200, 300, and 600 yards) and learn what a rifleman can do without scopes, bipods, benchrests, etc.
WA state highpower match schedule Something tells me if you think 350 yards is as far as one can shoot a 223 (even a 55 grain bullet), you are probably a beginner.
[ 06-04-2003, 05:31: Message edited by: Orion 1 ]04 June 2003, 14:37
rootbeerPoint 1: Get a mirage tube...
Point 2: Always rememeber that we live in the United States of America. We are the most fortunate people to ever populate any country. If you have a need, someone will eventually fill it. Another person will have a better idea to fill your same need and voila!-- free-market capitalism and price competition, which will yield better and better products at lower and lower prices. (Can you say Microsoft, Hillary?) So why would anyone ever want government-run health care??? Maybe I'm in the wrong Forum...
04 June 2003, 14:55
<allen day>I vote Leupold 4.5-14x40MM
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04 June 2003, 17:23
prof242Another vote for the 6.5-20x-40mm.
04 June 2003, 18:16
Recoil RobHey Orion, lighten up.
Your condescending post did absolutely nothing to help answer Ben's question. It seems all you did was thump your chest about what can be done without a scope.
Perhaps he is a beginner, that's why he's asking questions. But with answers like yours, he's not going to learn much from you.
Rob
05 June 2003, 01:24
PetanderNice link,Orion.
Well,everyone has been a beginner once. I am just starting CAS... anyway,the scope recommendations are pretty much covered.
Just don�t try to pinch a few bucks when mounting it. Too many "scope problems" are mount problems after all.
05 June 2003, 04:05
Orion 1quote:
Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
Hey Orion, lighten up.
Your condescending post did absolutely nothing to help answer Ben's question. It seems all you did was thump your chest about what can be done without a scope.
Perhaps he is a beginner, that's why he's asking questions. But with answers like yours, he's not going to learn much from you.
Rob
Perhaps I could have used better manners. For that I apologize. I do not, however, thump my chest about anything. What I mentioned before is done by tens of thousands of highpower shooters in this country. I am by no means unique, nor the best.
05 June 2003, 04:21
Mike375Orion 1 does not mention that long range with an aperture requires an appropriate aiming mark.
Holding a 3 inch group and smaller at 300 metres with aperture sights is not the same as hitting a cigarette packet at 300 metres that is under the shade of a tree.
A rabbit at 500 yards with a bench rest 22/6mm Improved would be real interesting with aperture sights.
I am sure this was an oversight on Orion 1's part rather than lack of experience
![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
Mike
05 June 2003, 04:41
Orion 1quote:
Originally posted by Mike375:
Orion 1 does not mention that long range with an aperture requires an appropriate aiming mark.
Holding a 3 inch group and smaller at 300 metres with aperture sights is not the same as hitting a cigarette packet at 300 metres that is under the shade of a tree.
A rabbit at 500 yards with a bench rest 22/6mm Improved would be real interesting with aperture sights.
I am sure this was an oversight on Orion 1's part rather than lack of experience
Mike
No, it wasn't an oversight nor lack of experience. The man who asked the question was referring to target shooting. In the US, organized target shooting is done with targets containing scoring rings and an aiming black, regardless of which sights are used.
He wasn't asking about shooting at trash or little animals, you moron.
05 June 2003, 04:50
Mike375Orion 1
I think he is referring to informal target shooting and not using targets designed for aperture sights and ring foresights.
Mike
05 June 2003, 06:05
Recoil Robquote:
Originally posted by Orion 1:
[QUOTE]
He wasn't asking about shooting at trash or little animals, you moron.
Well you're right, you can use better manners.
Rob
05 June 2003, 06:08
Orion 1quote:
Originally posted by Mike375:
Orion 1
I think he is referring to informal target shooting and not using targets designed for aperture sights and ring foresights.
Mike
Don't really care what you think.
05 June 2003, 06:09
Orion 1quote:
Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
quote:
Originally posted by Orion 1:
[QUOTE]
He wasn't asking about shooting at trash or little animals, you moron.
Well you're right, you can use better manners.
Rob
Not with Mike the Aussie.
05 June 2003, 12:12
Ben_WazzuI guess my question should be, under what conditions (temperatures, ranges) does mirage become a problem. And, will I be able to use a .223 at ranged under 350 yards without experiencing mirage effects.
Well, you guys are right, I am a beginner. I did spend four summers teaching Boy Scouts to shoot .22s and can consistently keep 10 shots grouped smaller than a dime at 50 feet using a bench rest and aperture sights. I haven�t had a lot of shooting experience since then and wanted to get back into the game. Basically, I haven�t ever used a scope with a greater magnification than 3x9 and had read that at magnifications greater than 12x mirage is a problem. I also read that an exit pupil of 4 to 5 mm is desired, hence wanting a 50 mm front objective. I would like to be able to shoot small targets with my .223 and didn�t want to buy a scope with a 20x magnification and then find I can only use up to 12x. While I would like to shoot at paper targets and try for small groups, I am not above shooting a milk jug or pop can if the opportunity presents itself.
I am interested in High Power rifle, but haven�t pursued that hobby because until recently I was finishing up my degree.
Thanks,
Ben
05 June 2003, 12:45
DigitalDanBen,
You'll learn 90% by doing, the rest by yakking. Get your scope and shoot. After a bit the "fine details" brought up by forum folks will make sense, and you'll have some more questions. Welcome to the sport.
05 June 2003, 12:58
<t_bob38>The exit pupil you mentioned is probably based on the maximum pupil size of the human eye in dark situations. In bright conditions you will not need that large an exit pupil. But a large exit pupil make it quicker to get on target, by allowing minor misalignment of the eye with the scope.
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Wazzu:
I also read that an exit pupil of 4 to 5 mm is desired, hence wanting a 50 mm front objective. I would like to be able to shoot small targets with my .223 and didn�t want to buy a scope with a 20x magnification and then find I can only use up to 12x. While I would like to shoot at paper targets and try for small groups, I am not above shooting a milk jug or pop can if the opportunity presents itself.
I am interested in High Power rifle, but haven�t pursued that hobby because until recently I was finishing up my degree.
Thanks,
Ben
Ben,
I have a Leupold 6.5-20 - 40mm on my Remington 700VS in .223. I can highly recommend that power - 20X is great most of the time, but during the summer months or heavy shooting at the range mirage can be a problem which is easily solved by cranking down the power. The mirage tubes also help a lot.
If you haven't used a scope of that power before, just remember that you will also have the Adjustable Objective to deal with (the 'focus',depending on range).
Also remember that you may need higher scope mounts if you go with the 50mm objectives.
06 June 2003, 16:51
craigsterYou can't go wrong with a 6.5x20. Mine are all Leupolds and for most shooting I don't crank them up to full power, but it's there if one needs it.