Leather covered recoil pads

06 February 2003, 12:52

I think Bill Leeper had a long and informative how-to post on this once here, but I'll be darned if I can find it. If someone could steer me toward it, or Bill would be kind enough to re-hash it, that would be nice.

The kind of things I'm wondering are: what kind of leather is best, what adhesive do you use, how do you decide where and how big to make the "V" cuts, and how much undersize does the pad need to be?

Thanks,
Todd

06 February 2003, 13:31

GeorgeS

More importantly than how, why? What benefit does the leather covering provide?

George

06 February 2003, 14:18

<JBelk>

Todd--

I think that was Bill Soverns that posted that.

George S--

Because it's the classic and incredibly beautiful way to add some "slip" to the gummy rubber. I love 'em.

06 February 2003, 14:36

TGetzen

GeorgeS,

Ditto Jack. Beautiful, classic, no other virtue. If strictly functional was the goal, I would own just one rifle, a plastic stocked stainless 338 win mag.

Todd

06 February 2003, 15:15

GeorgeS

Gotcha. It's like leather seats in a Ferrari; it doesn't make the car faster, it just makes owning it feel better.

George

06 February 2003, 16:45

Customstox

George, it is usually done because some one likes the looks of it and wants it added to their rifle. Just a matter of choices, theirs, maybe not yours, but then that is what a lot of custom rifles and shotguns are different.

[ 02-06-2003, 07:58: Message edited by: Customstox ]

06 February 2003, 17:19

Atkinson

It enhances the way a rifle or shotgun comes to the shoulder, it does not drag on your shirt. A rubber recoil pad for the most part grabs... That is the functionality of a leather covered recoil pad...

I find them very desirable on a DGR or a fast handling double gun...Looks are secondary to that...there are products on the market to add this functionality to the recoil pad...Brownell offers a two part substance for this very purpose, but the pigskin sure looks nicer...I like that in a gun, called class..

06 February 2003, 17:27

<JBelk>

GeorgeS--

When you said .....

quote:
It's like leather seats in a Ferrari; it doesn't make the car faster, it just makes owning it feel better.

You totally misinterpreted my answer. I said a leather pad does away with the gummy feel of a recoil pad.

It used to be that gentlemen went to Africa with the best they could buy.........because they had the best of everything. And the best guns had leather covered pads to "better slip the jacket.......", in the words of Gough Thomas.

Butts were either flat-checkered wood, with or without heel and toe plates, or leather covered pads on their shotguns and the African rifles were made the same.

Some folks like traditional hunting rifles and willing to pay to get them. It's called free enterprize.

06 February 2003, 17:33

<1_pointer>

I think Echols uses a skeet type recoil pad for the same reasons. I'd like to see a pic of one of these if anyone has one. Sure sounds nice.

06 February 2003, 18:14

N E 450 No2

Both of my British double rifles have Leather covered recoil pads, as Ray and J Belk have stated they are functional and classy. [Big Grin]

06 February 2003, 18:20

TGetzen

Little bonus there I guess, regarding the quicker handling in a DGR. These will go on a 458 Lott
(P-14) and a 9.3x62 (Mauser) by the way. I'm thinking black leather to match the mineral streaks.

I remember so much of that post, including that he uses a 300 Weatherby shell casing to cut the holes for the screws -- I just can't remember the things I NEED to know, like what adhesive, sizing the pad, leather source, etc.
[Frown]

06 February 2003, 18:51

dempsey

Todd
Try a search for "leather pad" over at HA. I just did one recently and came up with lots of good stuff, including posts from Mr. Soverns aka akace.

06 February 2003, 18:54

TGetzen

Well, that could be the reason I didn't find that post -- I wasn't looking at HA. Thanks Dempsey.

06 February 2003, 23:06

Customstox

Todd the adhesive is Barge Cement. I size the pad to the stock and then trim it back about half the thickness of the leather. If you go the full thickness you will end up with a proud edge of the wood at the juncture due to the curve of the leather underneath. I use pig skin, and Bill uses Orthopedic something. I have had quite a few laughs over that at his expense. Still see this Gary Larson cow with support hose.

I have seens some of the pads colored to match the background color. Jay McCamment did a set of them a few years ago in a tan color and it looked incredible. Steve Heilman had a red one at this years show, equally impressive. A rubber pad never looked as good as these. They do wear well also. My .280 has had one for years. And contrary to some opinions based on smoke and mirrors, they do fine in the rain.

07 February 2003, 01:28

jeffeosso

You'll need 3 things
pigskin
"stretching fluid" (really exists)
the patience of Job.

jeffe

07 February 2003, 03:17

Bill Soverns

BTW Chic - I talked to Nelson at the show. He tried that cow skin and liked it. So did Jack. I use both skins. Depends what the customer wants. Pigskin covered pads look like old man balls as one of my clients put it.

07 February 2003, 03:59

savageshooter

I've never seen leather-covered pads. Anyone know where there might be some pictures of this?

07 February 2003, 04:10

GeorgeS

J Belk,

You're right; I thought it was more 'show' than 'go'. Thanks for the clarification.

How much would installation cost? Is there a 'preferred' leather for this?

George

07 February 2003, 04:52

Rich Anderson

I just had a leather pad put on a shotgun. The cost including labor was $350. The gun comes up very nice no drag or catching on clothing.

07 February 2003, 06:07

GeorgeS

$350? Gadzooks! [Eek!]

George

07 February 2003, 06:42

Customstox

All of you bear in mind that the orthopedic cow skin is an ongoing Joke with Bill and I. One of these days I will try it along with the strectching liquid and will be suitably impressed, I am sure. Of course by then I will be at a point that I can not admit what I did.

Mark Stratton found some other leather but it was still pig skin but taned differently and he said the texture and grain was fantastic. Have to call him again and see what it is.

07 February 2003, 06:58

Paul H

Are the recoil pads ground to the stock as usual, or are they ground down narrower to allow for the thickness of the leather? What are the preferred pads? I'm debating trying this with my old english decelerator on the 350 Rigby.

07 February 2003, 07:34

Nitroman

Paul,
Chic noted he took the pad in about 1/2 the thickness of the leather to prevent the overhang, word he used was, "proud".

07 February 2003, 07:43

T.Carr

savageshooter,

Here's one:

Regards,

Terry

07 February 2003, 08:45

<1_pointer>

T Carr- I don't know what that gun is, but I do know its a beaut!!!

07 February 2003, 08:56

Customstox

1_pointer, just judging by the color of the photo, I would hazard a guess that it is at Morris Hallowell's site for custom gun sales. And checking the name of the photo it appears to be one of Duane Weibe's gems.

http:www.hallowellco.com

[ 02-07-2003, 10:59: Message edited by: Customstox ]

07 February 2003, 09:00

T.Carr

1-Pointer,

Here is the whole rifle (it's not mine - I wish it was!).

It's a Pre-war Win M70 30.06 by Duane Weibe, for sale at Hallowel , for $3,250.

Regards,

Terry

07 February 2003, 10:07

TGetzen

For anyone interested in this idea, here is a link to the thread on HA, which Dempsey kindly steered me towards:
http://www.huntamerica.com/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB8&Number=205498&Forum=UBB8&Words=leather%20pad&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=205060 &Search=true#Post205498

I stopped by an upholstery store today as I was running from one hospital to the other, and voila, ~3 sq. feet of nice heavy black cow leather, for $20. It wasn't suitable for use in couch pillows because it had too many scars on it, which makes it even better for a recoil pad IMO.

So then, this 'barge cement' -- is that a type of adhesive, or a brand name? What is its primary purpose if other than leather? And what kind of store might carry it? The owner of the upholstery store recommended a type of leather contact cement; although not a hunter, he was intrigued by this use of leather, and I will probably have to take the stock in to show him.

Thanks for all the responses,
Todd

07 February 2003, 10:47

Bill Soverns

Todd,

Barge Cement is the brand name. It stays flexible after it dries and that is the primary reason for its use. It is nasty. Highly poisinous and the poison never leaves your system. Use ventilation. Other than that leather pads are simple! [Smile]

Try hardware stores.

07 February 2003, 10:54

alvinmack

You aren't going to have much luck finding barge cement at a hardware store. I've found the best thing to do is stop by your local ma and pa shoe repair store and tell them what you need. I've found more than a couple places that are happy to help and will order you what you need from their supplier.

07 February 2003, 11:00

Customstox

Todd, you don't want to use heavy leather. If you do, you will never get it stretched over the pad nor will you ever get the wrinkles out. think thin, think orthopedic cows ..... with canes waiting to go into see the doctor about their foot problems. Think of all the other strange animals in the line. Ducks with web foot diseases. Assorted pigs with bow ties. It isn't my fault this stuff comes op, it is Bill's, blame him.

I just miked the thickness of the pigskin I use and it was .023"

07 February 2003, 11:42

dempsey

Are there any trade secrets in reducing the pad's size to accomadate the leather covering? I would think this would be a critical task in getting a smooth transition from wood to pad.

07 February 2003, 14:41

Customstox

If my leather is 0.024" thick I take dividers and set them at half that and scribe a mark all around the base of the bottom plate. Then I wipe some white paint on it and clean up the surface and it will leave a white mark in the scratch. Then I just hold the pad in my hand and sand it down on a 12" disc sander or on a stationary belt sander. I am careful and check it often moving it and making sure the surface I am sending is parallel to the one that was created when it was on the blank.

I have tried one other way with some success. Mark the pad as detailed above. Put it back on the stock and loosen the screws and push it to one side. Make sure you have some masking tape on the stock to protect it. Now sand the side that is sticking out checking often to make sure you are not over the mark. You are basically using the stock as a handle for sanding. Do both sides and then the top and bottom. They are more difficult to do on the stock and you will have to take it off to do it compeletely.

07 February 2003, 17:50

dempsey

Customstox
Thankyou for that information.

08 February 2003, 03:51

savageshooter

Thanks for the pictures T.Carr! That's sweeet! Can I assume that the leather wraps around between the butt of the stock and the pad?

08 February 2003, 07:18

Customstox

It covers the pad and is glued to the surface and onto the bottom of the pad. On the bottom the leather is cut in little pie shaped wedges to make it end up smooth

08 February 2003, 09:17

<JOHAN>

Gentlemen

Leather coverd pads are very nice but 350$ is alot of dosh for such work

I had the recoil pad cover on a double that is going to Africa. An old saddle maker did it for 60$. I guess any saddle maker worth his salt would be able to do it

/ JOHAN

08 February 2003, 11:35

<JBelk>

JOHAN---

I never knew saddlemakers worked cheaper than gunmakers.

Seriously, anytime you can get somebody to do skilled work for $15 on hour I hope you tip the poor devil so he won't starve waiting on the next money losing job.

08 February 2003, 15:03

alvinmack

Except I don't think a Leather Pad takes 4 hours to complete as long as my math is correct. Leather Pad's are a very nice option, but I do somewhat agree with Johan on price having done a few myself.

[ 02-08-2003, 06:05: Message edited by: alvinmack5 ]

08 February 2003, 18:46

Customstox

I would be surprised to find a saddle maker who knew how to do it. You didnt get a saddle horn did you? Sorry, couldnt resist.

From the time I start installing a pad, to the end of a leather cover is easy 4 hours. Okay with some time off to watch a hunting show on Saturday morning. I will have to do a time check next time.

[ 02-08-2003, 09:48: Message edited by: Customstox ]